Transportation Projects, Roads, Light Rail, etc

[Mith242]

Here's a bummer- Missouri pulled most of the money they had saved for the Bella Vista bypass to use elsewhere. Because Arkansas hasn't been able to come up with their's and doesn't look like they will anytime soon Missouri decided to use the cash to improve Hwy 71 between Joplin and KC to interstate status. That is still the same corridor that will be I49 someday so that is good. Arkansas is still talking about building 2 lanes of the bypass now and the other 2 later but that is no definite. The 2 lanes would not be a toll road so it will still take some serious upfront cash to build them.

The Blue Ribbon panel didn't come up with any workable solutions to increase funding for Arkansas roads by the July 2 deadline to no one's surprise. Until the entire transportation funding mechanism is changed I think it will be gridlock for future improvements for highways in the state. Removing the independent Highway Commission should be the first step. That commission is not an efficient or productive way to deal with transportation issues in the state. The idea of funding a statewide grid of 4 lane highways without an established need for them is a huge waste of money and time- funding should go where the biggest need is and not just because its where a commission member lives.

Yeah disappointing but not surprising. Arkansas doesn't appear to be doing anything anytime soon and Missouri isn't just going to sit forever on the money. But they did leave some money so if Arkansas surprisingly finally get around to the two lane road Missouri would have something. That and moving the money northwards to work on a future I-49 corridor helps in the long run as well. The more they accomplish perhaps the easier it will be to get funding. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but here's where there should have been an interstate construction project, not that Arkansas-Mississippi bridge. At least the traffic counts up here would have made the project worth it. I just have a hard time imagining that bridge getting enough traffic to warrant the $340Mil price tag.

[aerotive]

Traffic counts are one thing but not everything; if they were we'd have roads in LR and nowhere else. Not exactly viable, especially in a state with a lot of rural, agricultural/extractive areas that still need roads. That old bridge was 70 years old, two-lane, and badly outdated. It needed to be replaced, sometime or another.

These things needn't be either/or. We could've raised taxes, sold more bonds, done a toll road (which I'd have been against) or cut spending elsewhere and still built the bridge and a 540 extension simultaneously.

[Mith242]

Traffic counts are one thing but not everything; if they were we'd have roads in LR and nowhere else. Not exactly viable, especially in a state with a lot of rural, agricultural/extractive areas that still need roads. That old bridge was 70 years old, two-lane, and badly outdated. It needed to be replaced, sometime or another.

These things needn't be either/or. We could've raised taxes, sold more bonds, done a toll road (which I'd have been against) or cut spending elsewhere and still built the bridge and a 540 extension simultaneously.

I had wondered the status of the old bridge. I can understand it needing to be replaced. But I still have a hard time seeing the need of spending $340 Mil for a bridge like that. Not when there's a lot of other needs in the state. I'm not saying you start ignoring the rest of the state outside of NWA and central Arkansas. But since those areas are the economic engines of the state you'd just think those areas might be better taken care of.

And oh yeah, to add insult to injury for everyone who frequents Hwy 71 in Bella Vista. Starting next week there will be road construction cutting Hwy 71 down to one lane each direction.

[countrylivin']

I had wondered the status of the old bridge. I can understand it needing to be replaced. But I still have a hard time seeing the need of spending $340 Mil for a bridge like that. Not when there's a lot of other needs in the state. I'm not saying you start ignoring the rest of the state outside of NWA and central Arkansas. But since those areas are the economic engines of the state you'd just think those areas might be better taken care of.

And oh yeah, to add insult to injury for everyone who frequents Hwy 71 in Bella Vista. Starting next week there will be road construction cutting Hwy 71 down to one lane each direction.

I hope you don't mind me putting my two cents worth in here, but the new bridge was Trent Lotts baby! He was Majority and then Minority Whip and therefore could direct pork to his state. I don't think Arkansas had much to say about it. Any way the good folks in Mississippi want the folks of southeast Arkansas to have an enjoyable and safe trip to the casinos.

[Sammy00]

Mississippi footed about 80% of the costs, so I don't think we have too much to complain about.

[Mith242]

Everybody is welcome to comment on the bridge. There might even be some who like it or don't think it's a big deal. I might be making a big deal over nothing. I'll have to go back and check again but from what I recall the cost wasn't split 20%/80%. The article I read was mentioning it ranked up there as one of the most expensive projects in the state's history. I got the impression we were talking about just Arkansas's share, not the whole cost because Mississippi was paying a portion of it too. I was also thinking it will be Arkansas's job for the upkeep and maintenance. It vary well might have been Mississippi mainly pushing for it and Arkansas just tagged along. Although if a lot of Arkansas's money was tied into it I wish me might have had a little more say in it. But yeah I'm sure Mississippi will love having Arkansans having an easier time to go over and spend money in their state.

I was mainly just complaining how rural parts of the state seem to still have so much control inside the state. The general perception in the state seems to be, NWA is doing well enough for itself. Instead of spending any money up here let's throw money in all the others parts of the state and hope eventually bring them up just a little closer to NWA standards. I just think the money would be better spent on putting that money back into the parts of the state that generate money for the state like NWA and also central Arkansas. Almost all of eastern Arkansas has been in severe decline for decades now. I'm sorry but none of these projects, like the bridge, are going to turn that trend around. But hey, I realize I'm speaking from a biased position because I live in NWA.

[aerotive]

Saw this entry over at the Iconoclast blog:

http://jonah-m-tebbetts.blogspot.com/2010/08/predator-is-on-prowl.html

Talks about a possible 1/4 cent sales tax election for public transit and the Bella Vista bypass.

Generally I vote against sales tax increases due to their regressiveness, but with the recentish drop in grocery sales tax I could see voting for these.

There's also a nwaonline story about it:

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2010/aug/06/transit-advisory-board-seeks-sales-tax-election/

Edited August 9, 2010 by aerotive

[zman9810]

Saw this entry over at the Iconoclast blog:

http://jonah-m-tebbetts.blogspot.com/2010/08/predator-is-on-prowl.html

Talks about a possible 1/4 cent sales tax election for public transit and the Bella Vista bypass.

Generally I vote against sales tax increases due to their regressiveness, but with the recentish drop in grocery sales tax I could see voting for these.

There's also a nwaonline story about it:

http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2010/aug/06/transit-advisory-board-seeks-sales-tax-election/

The 1/4 cent sales tax is actually for Ozark Regional Transist only and is to replace the federal money that they get for operations now. When the served population rises above 200,000 the federal government requires that the money be used for capital expenses instead of operations and it's loss would force ORT to cut back operations drastically. ORT serves a valuable role in the area's transit network so this sales tax increase or at least some method of funding is very much needed. The Mobilty Authority may try to add additional sales tax for other needs but that would seem to muddle the issue and possibly lead to a defeat of the ORT option.

Edited August 9, 2010 by zman9810

[Mith242]

The 1/4 cent sales tax is actually for Ozark Regional Transit only and is to replace the federal money that they get for operations now. When the served population rises above 200,000 the federal government requires that the money be used for capital expenses instead of operations and it's loss would force ORT to cut back operations drastically. ORT serves a valuable role in the area's transit network so this sales tax increase or at least some method of funding is very much needed. The Mobility Authority may try to add additional sales tax for other needs but that would seem to muddle the issue and possibly lead to a defeat of the ORT option.

Yeah I've been wondering how our area was going to handle the change for public transportation. I think Razorback Transit will lose money too. I think at one point Razorback and ORT evenly split the funding. But a while back ago Razorback ended up having to give more of their share to ORT if I remember correctly. So they won't take as much of a hit as ORT. Public transportation is already poor in the area. If they don't get this sales tax increase, it's going to be downright pathetic.

In other news looks like the AHTD will have some public meetings in Springdale and Rogers about an eastern corridor, connecting Hwy 16 east of Fayetteville northward to Hwy 62 east of Rogers. But don't get any hopes up. There's been some talk for decades and considering other higher priorities like the Bella Vista bypass and Hwy 412 bypass have yet to be built. We're probably talking another decade or two before we can even seriously consider a 4-5 lane highway on the east side of the metro.

[countrylivin']

Everybody is welcome to comment on the bridge. There might even be some who like it or don't think it's a big deal. I might be making a big deal over nothing. I'll have to go back and check again but from what I recall the cost wasn't split 20%/80%. The article I read was mentioning it ranked up there as one of the most expensive projects in the state's history. I got the impression we were talking about just Arkansas's share, not the whole cost because Mississippi was paying a portion of it too. I was also thinking it will be Arkansas's job for the upkeep and maintenance. It vary well might have been Mississippi mainly pushing for it and Arkansas just tagged along. Although if a lot of Arkansas's money was tied into it I wish me might have had a little more say in it. But yeah I'm sure Mississippi will love having Arkansans having an easier time to go over and spend money in their state.

I was mainly just complaining how rural parts of the state seem to still have so much control inside the state. The general perception in the state seems to be, NWA is doing well enough for itself. Instead of spending any money up here let's throw money in all the others parts of the state and hope eventually bring them up just a little closer to NWA standards. I just think the money would be better spent on putting that money back into the parts of the state that generate money for the state like NWA and also central Arkansas. Almost all of eastern Arkansas has been in severe decline for decades now. I'm sorry but none of these projects, like the bridge, are going to turn that trend around. But hey, I realize I'm speaking from a biased position because I live in NWA.

Like all tax dollars, there are never enough to go around and since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, we in NWA need to make more noise! The corporate farms in SEAr and companies like Riceland Food have some very loud voices in both LR and Washington! (If you don't believe it just look at the $320 million ditch and ten foot pipe the Corps of Engineers is trying to build them so they can steal water from the White river.) What they want to do is four lane 82 from the bridge to El Dorado and eventually make a four lane corridor from Dallas to Atlanta. I can't help but think if Wal-mart, Tyson and JBHunt all thought the Bella Vista bypass was a priority we would have seen movement on it already.

[zman9810]

In other news looks like the AHTD will have some public meetings in Springdale and Rogers about an eastern corridor, connecting Hwy 16 east of Fayetteville northward to Hwy 62 east of Rogers. But don't get any hopes up. There's been some talk for decades and considering other higher priorities like the Bella Vista bypass and Hwy 412 bypass have yet to be built. We're probably talking another decade or two before we can even seriously consider a 4-5 lane highway on the east side of the metro.

I went by the meeting and found out something that I hadn't heard. There is a long range plan to have the eastern coridor loop over to a proposed J Street interchange in Bentonville. There are two possible paths- one to the south of the Rogers airport and one to the north with both meeting up with Hwy 71 between the 72 and 71B exits. I'm sure this would be many decades in the future since the section between Hwy 264 and northern Rogers is still not for sure.

There is also a Civil War encampment site along the corridor path that may play a role in the where the path is.

[Mith242]

I went by the meeting and found out something that I hadn't heard. There is a long range plan to have the eastern corridor loop over to a proposed J Street interchange in Bentonville. There are two possible paths- one to the south of the Rogers airport and one to the north with both meeting up with Hwy 71 between the 72 and 71B exits. I'm sure this would be many decades in the future since the section between Hwy 264 and northern Rogers is still not for sure.

There is also a Civil War encampment site along the corridor path that may play a role in the where the path is.

Thanks for the info. I've been curious to hear more about the eastern corridor plan. I'd rather see that than the western beltway you sometimes hear some talk on. For that matter an interstate quality eastern beltway would be an improvement as well. But for now I think a 4-5 lane eastern corridor would be nice. I hadn't heard any talk of possibly extending it all the way over to Bentonville on the north side. Just over to Hwy 62 in northeast Rogers. But this is still in the early stages. Seeing as long as it's taking the Bella Vista Bypass and the Hwy 412 bypass. I don't see this even starting in under ten years.

[zman9810]

Thanks for the info. I've been curious to hear more about the eastern corridor plan. I'd rather see that than the western beltway you sometimes hear some talk on. For that matter an interstate quality eastern beltway would be an improvement as well. But for now I think a 4-5 lane eastern corridor would be nice. I hadn't heard any talk of possibly extending it all the way over to Bentonville on the north side. Just over to Hwy 62 in northeast Rogers. But this is still in the early stages. Seeing as long as it's taking the Bella Vista Bypass and the Hwy 412 bypass. I don't see this even starting in under ten years.

Yes, the 4-5 lane eastern corridor would be helpful in taking traffic off 71B and even I540 to some degree. If they could just get the section up to where you could catch Pleasant Grove Rd it would be very helpful. Going through downtown Rogers will be difficult as would looping over to Hwy 71.

The western beltway is a horrible idea and I think is being pushed by people who would make money off it going through their vicinity. We've seen what happened to the area along I540- development follows exits and it often is the sprawl type development that NWA doesn't need more of. The area needs to fill in and redevelop the areas already being used- areas like downtown Rogers and downtown Springdale. The eastern corridor would help do that.

Edited August 12, 2010 by zman9810

[Mith242]

Yes, the 4-5 lane eastern corridor would be helpful in taking traffic off 71B and even I540 to some degree. If they could just get the section up to where you could catch Pleasant Grove Rd it would be very helpful. Going through downtown Rogers will be difficult as would looping over to Hwy 71.

The western beltway is a horrible idea and I think is being pushed by people who would make money off it going through their vicinity. We've seen what happened to the area along I540- development follows exits and it often is the sprawl type development that NWA doesn't need more of. The area needs to fill in and redevelop the areas already being used- areas like downtown Rogers and downtown Springdale. The eastern corridor would help do that.

Exactly. Really the only major NWA city west of I-540 is Bentonville. All the other major cities are basically east of I-540. The only problem I see with an eastern corridor/beltway is topography. It's more hilly on the east side of the metro. That will probably end up costing more. But I think it would benefit the area so much more than a western beltway.

One another note, it's a small step but at least one small section of the Bella Vista bypass should start work next Spring. Although Arkansas didn't get hardly any federal funding they did get a little bit and had to find a way to use that funding. Just putting a section that dead ends wouldn't work. So the AHTD will be building a two lane bypass around Hiwasse. So people traveling on Hwy 72 will be able to bypass the small community. Sounds like there will also be enough funding left over to do some ground work on the section between Hiwasse and the Missouri border. There won't be any at grade intersections along the stretch of the Hiwasse bypass. Interstate grade interchanges will be built at both ends of the Hiwasse bypass on Hwy 72. It may not be much but at least it's a small step forward.

[zman9810]

Exactly. Really the only major NWA city west of I-540 is Bentonville. All the other major cities are basically east of I-540. The only problem I see with an eastern corridor/beltway is topography. It's more hilly on the east side of the metro. That will probably end up costing more. But I think it would benefit the area so much more than a western beltway.

One another note, it's a small step but at least one small section of the Bella Vista bypass should start work next Spring. Although Arkansas didn't get hardly any federal funding they did get a little bit and had to find a way to use that funding. Just putting a section that dead ends wouldn't work. So the AHTD will be building a two lane bypass around Hiwasse. So people traveling on Hwy 72 will be able to bypass the small community. Sounds like there will also be enough funding left over to do some ground work on the section between Hiwasse and the Missouri border. There won't be any at grade intersections along the stretch of the Hiwasse bypass. Interstate grade interchanges will be built at both ends of the Hiwasse bypass on Hwy 72. It may not be much but at least it's a small step forward.

One of the possible paths for the eastern corridor is 1st Street through Rogers so that would avoid most of the hilly area.

That's great to hear about the Hiwasse project- at least it shows they are serious about getting it done. The effort should help get funding for the rest of it. It was decent of Missouri to give up their share of the $10 million grant to Arkansas to help out- shows they are serious about the bypass also.

[Mith242]

Looks like NWA and the Ft Smith metros are working together to have a bit more pull in matters of transportation. The Regional Intermodal Transportation Authority represents both NWA and the 'River Valley'. They're referring to it as a 'megaregion' of 750,000. While I don't tend to keep up with things down in the River Valley I do think this is a good idea for the region. It gives the area a little more pull when trying to get federal funding.

[Mith242]

I-540 will soon start looking a bit more like the 'urban' interstate it really is. Until recently the AHTD still considered it a rural interstate. Soon the state will start putting in new interstate signs at the 19 exits in NWA. Nine of the signs will change. Instead of listing hwy numbers and the nearby cities they'll actually list the actual road. The nine changing; MLK Jr Blvd and Garland in Fayetteville, Great House Spring Rd in Johnson, Sunset in Springdale, W Monroe Ave in Lowell, Walnut St in Rogers, and then the rest in Bentonville. SE Walton Blvd, SE 14th St, Central Ave, and N Walton Blvd.

[Mith242]

It's late notice but I didn't find out about it till today. Looks like the Northwest Arkansas Regional Planning Commission is at the Walker Community Room at the Fayetteville Public Library to get public input for it's long range plans till 7PM. If I get a chance to drop by today I'll post any info I find out.

Actually after rereading the article, now I'm not sure if they meant today or next Tuesday. Seems rather late notice if it's today. I'd also think the article would use the word today since it was put out on today as well.

[zman9810]

It's late notice but I didn't find out about it till today. Looks like the Northwest Arkansas Regional Planning Commission is at the Walker Community Room at the Fayetteville Public Library to get public input for it's long range plans till 7PM. If I get a chance to drop by today I'll post any info I find out.

Actually after rereading the article, now I'm not sure if they meant today or next Tuesday. Seems rather late notice if it's today. I'd also think the article would use the word today since it was put out on today as well.

It is today- Thursday they will be at the old St. Mary's in Rogers.

[Mith242]

It is today- Thursday they will be at the old St. Mary's in Rogers.

Thanks, I wish they had done a better job getting the info out. I never did go by. I was busy and wasn't going to make a big effort to go if I wasn't positive it was being held. Oh well, maybe the local news will cover it a little.

[Mith242]

Sounds like ORT is also going to be at the Rogers meeting. Haven't heard if they were at the Fayetteville one. Again, there seemed to be very little about the Fayetteville meeting and what info there was, was pretty late coming as well. But anyway, ORT is trying to get better ideas about how to increase ridership and what routes people would be interested in. They'll also be letting everyone know sales tax vote next year for funding public transit. It's been mentioned before, but in case there's anyone new out there and hasn't seen the info. Next year our metro reaches the point where federal funding gets cut back. Once a metro becomes so large it's expected to be able mainly fund itself. If the sales tax isn't passed then expect even more cuts to ORT. Not sure how much it will affect Razorback Transit. Students may have to pick up more of the tab. Which brings me to something else relating to all of this. With the increase in students this year Razorback Transit is experiencing heavy ridership on some of it's routes. Sounds like some students aren't happy that a number of seats are being filled by non-students. But because Razorback Transit does receive some federal funding (although not as much as ORT) they have to allow non-students access as well. I doubt the complaints will ever get this far. But there's the chance that this might be brought up. If the students would be willing to pay more and make up the portion Razorback Transit gets in federal funding Razorback Transit could focus more on just the students. The ORT could focus more on the non-students. In some ways simplifying the public transit situation. I think this may be a long shot, but Razorback Transit's share of the federal funding will be dropping next year as well. It could possibly drop to a small enough amount that the university could look into the possibility. Enrollment isn't expected to drop off next year. Razorback Transit works well for parts of Fayetteville. But I do think it's also hurt ORT as well.

[aerotive]

The local college students not liking other riders is a recurring complaint, goes back to where the system first started. They'll get over themselves like the previous cohorts always have. Live on campus if you don't like us townies...

As far as ORT routes go, I don't know if there are any other potential routes that have enough density to attract sufficient ridership. In Fayetteville the densest areas are already served by the UA. They could try a park-and-ride style commuter express route, from Fayetteville to the Walmart HQ, but make it a true express route unlike the UA/NWACC one. Maybe a route that could serve the factories in the south part of town? Commuter routes from Rogers and/or Fayetteville to the Tyson HQ? Night and weekend service on their existing routes would also be something to consider, along with shorter headways, lower ticket prices, etc.

[Mith242]

The local college students not liking other riders is a recurring complaint, goes back to where the system first started. They'll get over themselves like the previous cohorts always have. Live on campus if you don't like us townies...

As far as ORT routes go, I don't know if there are any other potential routes that have enough density to attract sufficient ridership. In Fayetteville the densest areas are already served by the UA. They could try a park-and-ride style commuter express route, from Fayetteville to the Walmart HQ, but make it a true express route unlike the UA/NWACC one. Maybe a route that could serve the factories in the south part of town? Commuter routes from Rogers and/or Fayetteville to the Tyson HQ? Night and weekend service on their existing routes would also be something to consider, along with shorter headways, lower ticket prices, etc.

Good points on the routes. At the two meetings the top issue people cited was improved bus service. In Rogers improvements to I-540 was second. But in Fayetteville there was a tie between I-540 improvements and a light rail system. After that the next issues tended to be bicycle related issues and then pedestrian related issues. So the I-540 improvements ended up being the only 'car oriented' issue that was in the top five.

[zman9810]

That is a good point about having nights and weekend service from ORT. The only area wide service is from the taxi cab companies and they are too costly and can take hours to arrive. An off-hours public transist option for the entire area is needed and, after established, would be used.

The students have always been somewhat removed from the Fayetteville community as a whole. That is normal- campus life can be so all consuming that it is easy to not realize that one lives in a larger community than the university.

[akahogfan]

I think that most of the reason students complain is that they don't realize that Razorback transit is not meant to be a student only set up. Heck, even the name is misleading in that regards; the central hub is on campus, and the majority of the routes are designed to meet the needs of students.

From experience, I will admit that it is rather strange to walk into the Transport center and see dozens of people waiting on a bus, knowing that they are not students. It's not that different from some people opposing light rail because it might help bring "undesirables" closer to their neighborhood. And while I have never been really worried about such a thing, being a guy, I have heard several female students express concern over the situation.