Stuck at 55mph still. Why?

[ellifyno]

We are talking about Interstate speeds, not other roads. 55 is plenty on the other ones. I am hoping that people aren't making U-turns on interstates! On non-interstate roads, U-turns are usually illegal excapt at a signal light. No-one needs to be going anywhere near 55 through a signal light because people do like to slow to make their turns. Of course common sense fits in there somewhere.

Unless it is 'controlled access' meaning no abutments into the roadway, and they have actual exit ramps!, then it shouldn't be more than 55 really. The only way to make that safe is to make turning lanes into them median and that isn't safe either - fast lane has cars slowing to 35 to pull into a turning lane. ouch.

Actually, this thread started out talking about arterials that were interstate-like in quality, not interstates; the interstate speed limit is obviously not stuck at 55, even in NC. I mentioned Harris as an example simply because this thread was discussing raising speed limits, and several studies had been mentioned regarding increasing speed limits and the criteria used for these decisions -- Harris seemed relevant because the articles I read mentioned the studies that were conducted for determining the speed limit. If you continued to read everything you had quoted, you'd realize that I then continued the interstate discussion anyway. And as others have mentioned, U-turns are not illegal just because a light isn't present. As long as there's no "No U-Turn" sign present, you can typically make a legal U-turn. There are many, many, many places in Charlotte where you're forced to make right-in, right-out movements. Most people make U-turns at the next place they can make a left turn. This is perfectly legal; otherwise, you'd have to drive for a mile or more in some places before you reach a light to make a U-turn. And as Jerseyman4 stated, new turn lanes in this state are typically designed to pretty high standards as far as their length is concerned. I think a much bigger problem is that the number of right turn lanes seems to pale in comparison to left turn lanes, requiring traffic in the right lane to be very alert when on roads with lots of intersections and driveways. But then again, these aren't the roads this thread was discussing, so I should probably stop there before someone jumps on my back again.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I know here in Raleigh on Major Arterials people do like 60 anyway so I don't think it would make much financial sense to change it. Same with interstates, it may say 65 but sure enough someone will pass you doing 80 like it's nothing. It could be me.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

I know here in Raleigh on Major Arterials people do like 60 anyway so I don't think it would make much financial sense to change it. Same with interstates, it may say 65 but sure enough someone will pass you doing 80 like it's nothing. It could be me.

Then what is the point of having a speed limit at all then? Speed limits are put in place for safe travel for everyone using the road. Different areas demand different speeds.(and that goes for areas where 20 mph is the limit for safe travel) If you go over the speed limit, you are taking chances, not just that you'll be caught and ticketed, but that you also could be the cause of a major accident, killing innocent people that were going the speed limit and obeying the laws of the road. Just because "others" may not respect the road and the speed limits does not mean the limits are not there and real and enforceable. .

[Jerseyman4]

^Speed limits are not always assessed properly, just because you exceed it does not mean you are always jepordizing public safety (it gives the cop an excuse to leave the Dunkin Donuts parking lot to find something to do). A portion of Bragg Blvd in Fayetteville was 35mph roughly between Sycamore Dairy Road and 401 BYPASS. Since everyone was doing AT LEAST 40-45mph through this area, the DOT... YES... the North Carolina Department of Transportation raised the speed limit 10mph thruogh this area but with orange flags around the speed limit. It still remains 35mph roughly after the 401 BYPASS but by then, 45mph then becomes a little too fast approaching DT Fayetteville.

I can attest the 35mph limit was purely there because of this NCDOT rationale:

citywide 35mph unless otherwise posted

This photo is NC Hwy 177 Northbound, just north of Hamlet, Richmond County

[cranberries]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm... as long as there is no "U TURN" sign and you are not on a controlled access freeway, they are perfectly legal. Then of course, you dont U turn on a highway thats near/at a bridge, a railroad at-grade crossing, you are situated at a curve or bend... most of these things are common sense. Law enforcement will ticket if a U turn is made when oncoming traffic is being interfered.

This is subjective. If im driving on a highway thats straight as an arrow with few curves, and im doing 60-65mph passing through the stale green light, i am always prepared that the light can change at any time, ESPECIALLY if a car is waiting at opposite ends of the signalized intersection.

NCDOT constructs turn lanes very well in most cases. Most rural 2-4 lane highways have lengthy turn lanes where there is no reason to slow down 500-750+ feet before the turning lane in dry conditions. Fast lane is passing lane by the way.

Well, there seems to be a difference of opinion based more on where we are driving <controlled access vs noncontrolled access>

On noncontrolled access - 55 is fine - there are animals that dodge in front of us and people seem to pull out in front of you without warning, etc. Using common sense helps. Someone mentioned Charlotte - where would/could you go more than 55 other than controlled access.

On controlled access, raise the limit with the stickers on the signs to 70. It gets traffic moving.

I don't think everyone is piled into the far right lane on Independence Blvd. On interstate that would be correct on the passing roght lane only, however; again at 5pm, it isn't feasable and probably won't happen.Every time I have been anywhere near Charlotte around 5pm it was a parking lot on I-77- perhaps things have changed some.

I just believe that 70 is a safe speed on the freeeway. Other areas woudl just depend on the dynamics of the area, location, etc.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

^Speed limits are not always assessed properly

But that is a personal opinion.

Generally, and overall-speed limits ARE assessed properly. I have seen speed limits raised as well as lowered as changes were made in the areas of question. Until a certain area has a different speed limit, we are obligated by law (as we were given the privilege to drive by our state) to abide by the speed limit posted, regardless of opinion.

[Jerseyman4]

^So then civil disobediance was done by the 85 percentile of Fayetteville area motorists. Like what happend on Bragg Blvd, the DOT felt that it was appropiate to raise the speed limit since public safety was not jepordized with speeds 5-10 miles greater than the limit.

Speed limits are assessed properly when people ARE DRIVING within them. 85% of them had a differing opinion on what the law stated and got their way for a speed limit increase

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

And had the original speed limit been enforced, 85% of the people would have generated a good deal of income for the government due to speed tickets handed out. The NC DOT can only post speed limits...but it is up to the law enforcement of that area to enforce the speed.

I have an example of a speed limit being dropped where it was wise IMO. Cone BLVD, Greensboro went from 45 mph to 35 mph a few yrs ago. I grew up with it being 45 mph-but I agree that the change in speed was good and necessary in order to avoid accidents in the area. Good for Greensboro and the NC DOT for reducing a speed, rather than always giving in to raising speeds just because people decide that a speed is unfair.

[Jerseyman4]

And had the original speed limit been enforced, 85% of the people would have generated a good deal of income for the government due to speed tickets handed out. The NC DOT can only post speed limits...but it is up to the law enforcement of that area to enforce the speed.

Sometimes i am speechless in comments like this

What if the speed limit was posted at 25mph on a rural freeway with a engineer design speed of 80mph, should that be enforced also? Should we ticket every person who drives the freeway who accidently went 26mph in a 25mph zone? If you say yes, i think ill die laughing.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

If a speed limit is posted, it should be obeyed. If a law is a bad law, there are means and ways to have a bad law changed or removed all together from the books. Likewise, if there is a speed limit that appears to be out of line, there are means and ways to get the speed limit changed (higher or lower) besides breaking the law by speeding. One doesn't have to break the law in order to see changes.

And yes, our law enforcers have every right within their job to give you a ticket for going over the speed limit no matter what your opinion is of the set limit. As a licensed driver, we have been given a privilege to drive. In that, we agree to abide by the laws set by the state we are in. How a highway is designed is not the only criteria for a decision on why a speed limit is set at a certain speed. As a general citizen, I cannot make the decision if a certain area of town or the state truly should be at this speed limit or that given all the various things that the DOT has to take into consideration in posting a safe speed for EVERYONE.

[AuLukey]

They dont even replace the sign, they patch over the numbers in most cases! Is that still too much to ask for?

And a lot of times, if they do replace the sign, the older signs are reused or sold elsewhere as the signs are used country-wide.

[Jerseyman4]

If a speed limit is posted, it should be obeyed. If a law is a bad law, there are means and ways to have a bad law changed or removed all together from the books. Likewise, if there is a speed limit that appears to be out of line, there are means and ways to get the speed limit changed (higher or lower) besides breaking the law by speeding. One doesn't have to break the law in order to see changes.

Thats why there is the 85 percentile to determine the appropiate speed limit.

As a general citizen, I cannot make the decision if a certain area of town or the state truly should be at this speed limit or that given all the various things that the DOT has to take into consideration in posting a safe speed for EVERYONE.

Quote from the Ohio Department of Transportation

When doing speed zone studies ODOT considers various factors such as the development of the area, roadway features including traffic volume, accidents, and the speed vehicles are traveling. Both the 85 percentile speed and the 10 mph pace are very important factors. The 85 percentile speed is the speed at which 85 percent of the vehicles are traveling at that speed or lower. The 10 mph pace is the ten mile per hour range of speeds containing the greatest number of observed speeds.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

But why pull from an Ohio site, when we are discussing NC roads?

Here is something found on the FAQ of the NC DOT

The DOT looks at several criteria in setting speed limits. These include roadway alignment, sight distance, 85th percentile speed (a weighted average speed), crash history, and development. For any sign to be effective, it must command the respect of road users. This means speed limits must be reasonable and enforced. The NCDOT is responsible for establishing speed limits, but local police, the State Highway Patrol, and Sheriff 's Departments have enforcement responsibility.

http://www.ncdot.org/doh/operations/divisi...FAQ.html#TrafQ5

It does include the 85th percentile speed that you mention, but it also takes into consideration other criteria before setting limits. Regardless, as a licensed driver you are obligated to obey the law ...including speed limits. Privileges are not rights and can be taken away if abused. If you are constantly getting speeding tickets by disregarding the speed limit, it will catch up to you and you do risk having your license revoked.

Also from the same site:

If no signs are posted, the General Statutes of North Carolina set all speed limits outside of municipalities at 55 m.p.h. and municipal limits at 35 m.p.h. These can be changed by ordinances enacted by the NCDOT. Changes, either higher or lower, inside city limits, require the agreement of the municipality and the NCDOT. If signs are not posted in areas outside municipalities, the speed limit is officially 55 m.p.h. This does not mean it is recommended to drive that fast; motorists should always drive at reasonable and prudent speeds as dictated by driving conditions. When this office conducts a speed zone study and recommends a speed limit, we draft the ordinance and submit it to the State Traffic Engineer's office for approval. When it is approved, our Traffic Services unit installs the speed limit signs.

and

How can I get a speed limit changed?

Contact our Traffic Engineering staff and request a speed zone study. Changing development and road work often affect operating speed conditions, and may warrant changes in the speed limit by the NCDOT. Division Three has a firm policy of not reducing speed limits below 35 mph. We also do not normally lower speed limits on dead end roads less than a mile long.

Meaning there is a legal and better way to get a speed limit changed than disobeying the speed limit again and again by many people. Just because 85 % of the people are breaking the speed limit (and the law) does not automatically mean that the speed limit should be changed. With that reasoning, any law that someone wants to contest, once it is broken enough (by enough of a percentile), regardless if it is a good law or not would be changed to accommodate the lawbreakers.

[Jerseyman4]

But why pull from an Ohio site, when we are discussing NC roads?

What difference does it make? The 85 percentile is the 85 percentile! The 85 percentile is the bulk of conducting traffic studies to begin with.

Regardless, as a licensed driver you are obligated to obey the law ...including speed limits. Privileges are not rights and can be taken away if abused. If you are constantly getting speeding tickets by disregarding the speed limit, it will catch up to you and you do risk having your license revoked.

You probably never heard of traffic lawyers that get you out of a speeding ticket to avoid the points. Sure it costs money now to make a municipality donation but it dosent cost you an arm and a leg for the next 3 years to pay the insurance companies money that is not necessary.

Meaning there is a legal and better way to get a speed limit changed than disobeying the speed limit again and again by many people. Just because 85 % of the people are breaking the speed limit (and the law) does not automatically mean that the speed limit should be changed. With that reasoning, any law that someone wants to contest, once it is broken enough (by enough of a percentile), regardless if it is a good law or not would be changed to accommodate the lawbreakers.

I believe it is the right way for people to express what they believe is the appropiate safe/legit speed as civil disobediance is not a bad thing if its done within reason. Laws are revised, changed, removed all the time so thank George Washington and his followers that we have a democracy so people can protest what they believe and dont believe in.

Driving is a priviledge but without common courtesy in the left most lanes of faster traffic (keeping up to flow of traffic IOW Prima Facie), the priviledge and respect will be eaten away from your fellow motorists.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

What difference does it make? The 85 percentile is the 85 percentile! The 85 percentile is the bulk of conducting traffic studies to begin with.

Because it is more appropriate to pull from the NC DOT site than an ohio site if we are discussing NC roads.

You probably never heard of traffic lawyers

Think again

that get you out of a speeding ticket to avoid the points. Sure it costs money now to make a municipality donation but it dosent cost you an arm and a leg for the next 3 years to pay the insurance companies money that is not necessary.

You would never need a traffic lawer to get you out of a speeding ticket in the first place if you obeyed the speed limit. And there is a difference between insurance points and license points. While your lawyer may get you out of insurance points, you still rack up license points in the process (though not as many as you would have if you had not gone to court -with or without a lawyer). Eventually with so many license points you can loose your license....and/or be required to go to driving school.

Here is a .pfd link to the NC DOT handbook.

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/d...CDL_English.pdf

[Jerseyman4]

Because it is more appropriate to pull from the NC DOT site than an ohio site if we are discussing NC roads.

What difference does it make if i pull out the defintion for 85 percentile here or there, the defintion does not change. I could of went to NCDOT but when i googled "85 percentile", ODOT came first and I was too lazy to look for it. We're not comparing oranges and apples here.

Think again You would never need a traffic lawer to get you out of a speeding ticket in the first place if you obeyed the speed limit. And there is a difference between insurance points and license points. While your lawyer may get you out of insurance points, you still rack up license points in the process (though not as many as you would have if you had not gone to court -with or without a lawyer). Eventually with so many license points you can loose your license....and/or be required to go to driving school.

All points have always been dropped as i ask the lawyer specifically if everything has been dropped completely.

[flith]

What difference does it make if i pull out the defintion for 85 percentile here or there, the defintion does not change. I could of went to NCDOT but when i googled "85 percentile", ODOT came first and I was too lazy to look for it. We're not comparing oranges and apples here.

Agreed.

All points have always been dropped as i ask the lawyer specifically if everything has been dropped completely.

I got nailed doing 70 in a 55 on Raeford Rd the first day I had my 350Z. I talked to a lawyer (he was handling a DUI for a guy on my team) and for $80, evreything was dropped. I wasn't aware of insurance points. Just license points. Anyway I have a TN drivers license and it never showed up on it, and the lawyer took me to the courthouse in Fayetteville, and pulled up my ticket, the database showed it as dismissed.

[Jerseyman4]

The one part of Raeford Road that bypasses the old alignment in SW Cumberland County is tempting to go fast over there. At the north end of the bypass, by 71st high school used to begin the city of limits of Fayetteville. Now, its at the county line!

[Jerseyman4]

Through the Whiteville bypass, 70mph would not HURT one bit!

An update to what i said in October of 2005, NCDOT may have read my cries hehe

The Whiteville bypass is now 70mph

Laurinburg-Maxton bypass is now 60mph

Rockingham-Hamlet bypass is 70mph (i wouldnt be suprised if it started out at 60-65mph when it opened. This was the first time i ever drove this part of US 74!)

However, the stretch between NC 41 (near I-95) and US 76 is still 55mph. While an new interchange or two popped up from it being a traffic signal before, it still needs to grade seperate or superstreet the remaining at-grades for NCDOT to raise this stretch AT LEAST 60mph but if interchanges were all built through this area, it would be raised to 65-70mph. Dont forget, this is the I-74 corridor so NCDOT should go ahead and make this into a freeway rather than do a random mix of at-grades and interchanges.

[Unifour]

We are talking about Interstate speeds, not other roads.

Which are we talking about? The original post only mentioned "four lane arterials" and US Highways, not interstate highways. I'm a bit confused... NC already has 70 mph on a lot of interstate highways that I've been on.