Knapps corner

[OneSweetWorld]

i'm sure you've probably heard that the proposed "lifestyle center" on knapps corner was rejected by the planning commission due to nieghbors that were against it. there was an article on it on the front of the press..

my question: when are people going to stop being so freakin dutch around here and just let this place DEVELOPE!!?? i know most of you are against suburban sprawl or whatever, but development is development. let em' build it!! let this city DEVOLOPE!!!!i'm looking for your opinions....

[MJLO]

Well I'm sure we'd all like to chalk it up to the "Dutch" mentality. I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that. I am probabally one of the most progressive people here when it comes to developement. First off, the new things that are built around here, will shape the character of our city and metropolitan areas for years to come. We need to be very thoughtful of how things are put in place here. Secondly, the people in that area namely Knapps corner have fought tooth and nail over any semblance of developement for the better part of twenty years. As time has proved over and over again, change is inevetable. The northeast corner, of Knapp and East Beltline is a veritable gold mine for developers, trust me when I say these people won't die with one rejection. Miejer started the explosion of developement out there over ten years ago. Do you remember the bloody battle they went thru for it? Don't be so discouraged by this rejection, it won't take long, it WILL be developed come hell or highwater.

Hehe, and Don't blame the obstructionist mentality, of the people in this region on the dutch, actual dutch people are very progressive and they rock! The people of this area more resemble puritans. They may not want developement and change, but as more people move to this area, change has to happen to accomodate them.

[GR_Urbanist]

i'm sure you've probably heard that the proposed "lifestyle center" on knapps corner was rejected by the planning commission due to nieghbors that were against it. there was an article on it on the front of the press..

my question: when are people going to stop being so freakin dutch around here and just let this place DEVELOPE!!?? i know most of you are against suburban sprawl or whatever, but development is development. let em' build it!! let this city DEVOLOPE!!!!i'm looking for your opinions....

I dont believe that most of us are against development at all. The problem comes from the way these places are designed. Look at how Celebration Village turned out. Here was a perfectly good idea that was supposed to be this new downtown on the E. Beltline that turned into a walking joke. Huge parking lots, sprawl style buildings and the whole thing is still not done several years after it started. Look at the other big box, big parking lot, big strip mall "buildings" that exist in that area and you will see why we barf whenever a new one is proposed. We dont mind development, we just dont want the area to become a sprawl heck hole. If thats Dutch then...

Ik ben blij Nederlands te zijn!

btw It would be nice if the Dutch came to GR and designed some buildings. Those people are amazing!

[Siler]

Actually, it was quite nice to see the City Commission following the City Master Plan that was years in the making with input from hundreds of citizens. Sure, development is not inherently bad...but neither is it inherently good. Planned growth, IMO, has a better chance of working out in the long run.

People resist change wherever you go. I wouldn't lay it only on the Dutch, Grand Rapidians, or any other generalized group.

The problem with denying this appeal is that there is already a smear of ticky-tacky generic development on the NW corner of Knapp and the East Beltline. It's hard to reclaim a place for sensible development when there's already a glittering example of consumerism run amok on the opposite corner.

And FWIW, this was an appeal to the City Commission that was just denied. The Planning Commish nixed this one last month.

[GRDadof3]

i'm sure you've probably heard that the proposed "lifestyle center" on knapps corner was rejected by the planning commission due to nieghbors that were against it. there was an article on it on the front of the press..

my question: when are people going to stop being so freakin dutch around here and just let this place DEVELOPE!!?? i know most of you are against suburban sprawl or whatever, but development is development. let em' build it!! let this city DEVOLOPE!!!!i'm looking for your opinions....

There is no "E" at the end of develop It's not like envelope. I didn't realize taste in building design was reserved just for the dutch

And Evergreen has already spent over $1 Million of their own money. I don't think they can afford to come back with an attorney.

Welcome Siler!

[Prankster]

And Evergreen has already spent over $1 Million of their own money. I don't think they can afford to come back with an attorney.

The only problem I have with the developer is he is the same the same guy that owned "Wild Steve's" and "Sound and Video" back in the 80's. He got busted a few times for "unethical" business practices, and eventually shut down his stores. So if he had no problem with screwing over customers with his retail business, what kind of surprises does he have in store for a much larger development like this. Just food for thought.

[publius]

All I can add here is read this thread for a more balanced perspective, lol

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...opic=16603&st=0

There are also older threads worth reading on this project and the problems this developer has created...

No one is against development at all...

But we do need responsible development in which the developer contributes not only to his own pocket, but also to the greater good of the urban community and the environment, and shows respect for the efforts of cooperative planning efforts by citizens and officials over many years of responsible planning...

[torgo]

^Well said. I am definitely not against growth, only crappy growth. I'll take an empty lot or a cornfield over a boring one-story "development" smeared all over the place with twenty acres of parking any day.

[snoogit]

^Well said. I am definitely not against growth, only crappy growth. I'll take an empty lot or a cornfield over a boring one-story "development" smeared all over the place with twenty acres of parking any day.

exactly.

THat area is meant for high density condos (3-5 story buildings) not sprawling stip malls. I would think that what happened at Alpine should be an example of what not to do, and that such development should be avoided.

[GRCentro]

i know most of you are against suburban sprawl or whatever, but development is development. let em' build it!! let this city DEVOLOPE!!!!i'm looking for your opinions....

I couldn't disagree more. Development for development's sake is not what we should be striving for. Planning should never take the backseat to development.

[MJLO]

I understand completely the need for planning, and couldn't be agree more. I think the point that G-ragitty is trying to make though, is that sometimes, around here, it seems that nothing is ever good enough. And while we are all looking at it from a civic planning stand point. I think the people in GRTownship are especially known for not wanting any developement of any kind ever, to come to that area.

[Stumbleine]

i live on 3 mile just east of the beltline, in gr township. I kind of wanted it there, so long as it didn't turn out like that mess of a theater... everytime i drive by i can't help but think how badly they messed that whole area up, could have been so much better. just wanted to let everybody know that somebody in the township likes progress.

[GRDadof3]

I understand completely the need for planning, and couldn't be agree more. I think the point that G-ragitty is trying to make though, is that sometimes, around here, it seems that nothing is ever good enough. And while we are all looking at it from a civic planning stand point. I think the people in GRTownship are especially known for not wanting any developement of any kind ever, to come to that area.

That I will agree with. It will be interesting to see what residents will think when something comes down the pike that actually FITS the Master Plan at that corner (high-density residential). If they balk at that, than they are just BANANA's

[torgo]

That I will agree with. It will be interesting to see what residents will think when something comes down the pike that actually FITS the Master Plan at that corner (high-density residential). If they balk at that, than they are just BANANA's

You also have to remember that the uproar against a certain project is often not even close to being representative of the opinions of the community. People always make more noise when there is something they don't like. Many of our projects have, by all indicators, broad community support, but when it comes to the public hearing, ten or fifteen people come and shred our work and tell the P.C. that it sucks, and maybe one person from a steering commitee will defend it. So I would dare say that when something that fits the master plan is proposed in that spot, most of the commuity will support it. The people who come to the meetings and make the racket, however, will not, and everyone will get the impression that the citizens of GR Twp are NIMBYs and BANANAS, which may not be the case.

And many of the people who won't support anything there aren't neccessarily hypocrites, either, because they may have been against everything ever proposed along that road, and they may have voiced opposition to the master plan, too. They just need to wake up and face the reality that where they live isn't rural anymore.

Ok I'm done now

[snoogit]

That I will agree with. It will be interesting to see what residents will think when something comes down the pike that actually FITS the Master Plan at that corner (high-density residential). If they balk at that, than they are just BANANA's

evferytime someone says bananas I cant get Jack Doles out of my head.

[twoshort]

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[GRDadof3]

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We need some better emoticons around here. I snatched a couple from some other forums

[snoogit]

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Is it peanutbutter jelly time already?

bah I should be slapped for posting that