Dilworth Projects (Kenilworth, Morehead, East)

[QCxpat]

Today 9:15 a.m. - Atrium Health Sanger Heart and Vascular Institute - Kenilworth Ave. at Harding Place

Canopy Realtors Association - Kenilworth Ave. at Greenwood Cliff

Edited July 24, 2020 by QCxpat

[j-man]

Now that’s how you wrap a parking garage! 

[UrbanCharlotte]

1 hour ago, j-man said:

Now that’s how you wrap a parking garage! 

I can't. This one would legitimately look better without the 'wrap'.  I would like to know what was discussed while these elevations were being drawn. 

[j-man]

5 minutes ago, UrbanCharlotte said:

I can't. This one would legitimately look better without the 'wrap'.  I would like to know what was discussed while these elevations were being drawn. 

Really!!? Like this one is actually an interesting take on a par king garage wrap even though you can still visibly see it’s a garage. And what’s wrong with the elevations? 

[CLT>]

Med School Render. From the ‘ambiguous’ site clues, it looks like it’s around the corner of Garden Terrace and Loop Road

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/08/11/first-look-at-atrium-wake-forest-medical-school.html?

[Cadi40]

Wow! You practically get a free education if you live in one of those apartments!

[KJHburg]

More importantly Wake and Atrium want to make the area from Charlotte to Winston the Silicon Valley of Health.

https://businessnc.com/atrium-envisions-silicon-valley-of-medical-research/

[Blue_Devil]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

More importantly Wake and Atrium want to make the area from Charlotte to Winston the Silicon Valley of Health.

https://businessnc.com/atrium-envisions-silicon-valley-of-medical-research/

Why do I have a feeling the city of medicine won’t like that.

[tozmervo]

Took me a while to find it, but based on the little buildings adjacent I think this is the site at Harding and Berkeley

 

[CLT>]

3 hours ago, tozmervo said:

Took me a while to find it, but based on the little buildings adjacent I think this is the site at Harding and Berkeley

 

It looked like the buildings fit there, except that’s land that Atrium doesn’t own, nor was it rezoned for the medical school. 
 

Maybe some pressure on a future land deal? 

[tozmervo]

9 hours ago, CLT> said:

It looked like the buildings fit there, except that’s land that Atrium doesn’t own, nor was it rezoned for the medical school. 
 

Maybe some pressure on a future land deal? 

I wondered that, too. It also shows the entire neighborhood between Greenwood Cliff and Harding Pl replaced by... other stuff. Either they spent a lot of money to render that thing in a different (but very specific) location, or there's a lot of land trading hands that we don't know about yet. 

[Rufus]

16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

More importantly Wake and Atrium want to make the area from Charlotte to Winston the Silicon Valley of Health.

https://businessnc.com/atrium-envisions-silicon-valley-of-medical-research/

Not to get off topic, but this is a slap in the face to UNC Charlotte. I hope Wake works to bring them in and help develop the potential for the school to take over Wake's branch in Charlotte. I'm dreaming, but still...UNC Charlotte needs the opportunity to succeed, and if it is getting left out in its own back yard, that's a complete slap in the face to the mission of the university and the City. 

[CLTranspo]

17 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Not to get off topic, but this is a slap in the face to UNC Charlotte. I hope Wake works to bring them in and help develop the potential for the school to take over Wake's branch in Charlotte. I'm dreaming, but still...UNC Charlotte needs the opportunity to succeed, and if it is getting left out in its own back yard, that's a complete slap in the face to the mission of the university and the City. 

I mean can’t we have a private medical college and a large public university in the same city? I don’t think it’s a slap in the face to uncc especially after atrium has tried and failed to partner with them before to create a med school. 

[Rufus]

9 minutes ago, CLTranspo said:

 especially after atrium has tried and failed to partner with them before to create a med school. 

This is incorrect. The UNC System has dragged their feet on a medical school for the university, and the former Chancellor has been quoted as saying he didn't want to ruffle feathers for a medical school. And Atrium never approached UNC Charlotte for a medical school. They approached UNC Chapel Hill, and still have a program for 3rd and 4th year students for the Chapel Hill program. It was Presbyterian and Novant that reached out to UNC Charlotte about ten years ago, and Atrium (then CMC) and UNC system stepped in and stopped that. 

Not saying that Wake can't be in the city. Especially with the biomedical field that Wake specializes in. But I hope Wake makes the opportunity to build a bridge with UNC Charlotte and let that flourish as part of this Silicon Valley of Medicine that Atrium mentions. 

[t_money]

11 hours ago, CLT> said:

It looked like the buildings fit there, except that’s land that Atrium doesn’t own, nor was it rezoned for the medical school. 
 

Maybe some pressure on a future land deal? 

According to that article Atrium has $8B in cash and investments.  I feel like they could convince most people to sell their lands...

Would have to demolish a whole block to make that park though.

[kermit]

Since the school will become its own, substantial, activity node, the further away from CMC main the better. If this Morehead / Greenwood Cliffs location pans out I’ll be thrilled, I would really like to see some diversification away from law offices over there.

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, Rufus said:

Not to get off topic, but this is a slap in the face to UNC Charlotte. I hope Wake works to bring them in and help develop the potential for the school to take over Wake's branch in Charlotte. I'm dreaming, but still...UNC Charlotte needs the opportunity to succeed, and if it is getting left out in its own back yard, that's a complete slap in the face to the mission of the university and the City. 

as a UNC Charlotte alum I don't feel that way.  This is UNC systems fault and the states which showed NO interest in a medical school ever in Charlotte.  UNC Charlotte should have been the partner but the state was never on board ever.   I think this will be great for Charlotte and Wake and Atrium. 

[kermit]

^ yup. The system makes expansion plans and funds those plans. Most of the blame lies with the system president and trustees who never wanted to invest in UNCC. But part of the blame also goes to the legislature, they never  bothered to listen to the smart folks who told them about the absolutely massive economic development benefits that would have come from a medical school in Charlotte — so they never wanted to make that payment to the system budget. A state funded med school would have paid for itself in a decade.

[QCxpat]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

as a UNC Charlotte alum I don't feel that way.  This is UNC systems fault and the states which showed NO interest in a medical school ever in Charlotte.  UNC Charlotte should have been the partner but the state was never on board ever.   I think this will be great for Charlotte and Wake and Atrium. 

 

7 hours ago, kermit said:

^ yup. The system makes expansion plans and funds those plans. Most of the blame lies with the system president and trustees who never wanted to invest in UNCC. But part of the blame also goes to the legislature, they never  bothered to listen to the smart folks who told them about the absolutely massive economic development benefits that would have come from a medical school in Charlotte — so they never wanted to make that payment to the system budget. A state funded med school would have paid for itself in a decade.

I have long found it surprising that Charlotte is the largest city in the United States without the following institutions: 

• (1) a full medical school; 
• (2) an accredited law school; 
• (3) a renowned music conservatory;
• (4) a zoo or an aquarium; and
• (5) a beautiful botanical garden.  

Charlotte is such a lovely city and ought to have all of the above institutions;  so I'm thrilled that Wake Forest University and Atrium Health have agreed  to bring a branch of the prestigious Wake Forest School of Medicine to Charlotte.     

Let's do what we can so that, in 10 years, Charlotte has laid the foundations for all of the above institutions, and so it can no longer be said that Charlotte is the largest city in the country without them.

Edited August 13, 2020 by QCxpat

[Blue_Devil]

32 minutes ago, QCxpat said:

 

As a native of Charlotte and a UNC Chapel Hill alum, I have long found it dismaying that Charlotte is the largest city in the United States without any of the following institutions: 

• (1) a full medical school; 
• (2) an accredited law school; 
• (3) a renowned music conservatory;
• (4) a zoo or an aquarium; and
• (5) a beautiful botanical garden.  

I think that Charlotte is such a lovely city and far prefer it to NYC or Boston, where I spent most of my working life.  Charlotte ought to have all of the above institutions since each of them is truly a sine qua non of any urbane and rising global city.  So I'm thrilled that Wake Forest University and Atrium Health have collaborated to bring to Charlotte the prestigious Wake Forest School of Medicine / Charlotte Campus.     

Let's take a look at #2 on the list of missing institutions  -  an accredited law school.   It's notable that 4 of the 5 largest cities in North Carolina have accredited law schools,  but Charlotte does not.  Raleigh has Campbell University's Norman Adrian Wiggins School of Law.  Greensboro has Elon University's School of Law.  Durham has the Duke University School of Law.  Winston-Salem has the Wake Forest University School of Law.   Why shouldn't Charlotte, the largest city and metropolitan area between D.C. and Atlanta, have an accredited school of law at its most prominent and leading institution of higher education, UNC Charlotte?  It's axiomatic that an essential part of the urban fabric of every city of any size and distinction  in the world is a prestigious law school.  It's way past time for a law school to be established at our local champion, UNC Charlotte.   And it surely hinders Charlotte's advancement in the ranks of great American cities for it to continue to be labeled "the largest city in the country without an accredited law school."

As UPers, let's do what we can so that in 10 years, the city we love and call home - Charlotte - has laid the foundations for all of the above institutions, and so that it can no longer be said that Charlotte is the largest city in the country without any of these institutions.

We don’t need more law school. The majority of the ones that exist are pretty bad anyway. The previous Charlotte School of Law was pretty horrible with some of the worst bar passage rates in the nation.

UNC Charlotte could open one, but if I am being honest we do not need a law school or should we get one, not unless it is of a very high tier and the UNC system fully supports it

[NYtoCLT]

33 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

We don’t need more law school. The majority of the ones that exist are pretty bad anyway. The previous Charlotte School of Law was pretty horrible with some of the worst bar passage rates in the nation.

UNC Charlotte could open one, but if I am being honest we do not need a law school or should we get one, not unless it is of a very high tier and the UNC system fully supports it

The problem is we already have too many law schools and graduates of low ranked law schools have little to no realistic chance of gainful employment as lawyers.  Low ranked law schools are often predatory and do a disservice to their community.  Getting rid off Charlotte School of Law was good for Charlotte.

The thing is, it would be almost impossible for Charlotte to get a decently ranked law school because any new school wouldn't have the history or brand appeal to carry it as a prestigious institution.  The only precedent for a new law school bucking the trend of new=low ranked is UC Irvine in 2007.  They invested a ton of money to do that though.  They (1) gave a full ride to EVERY student in its inaugural class, (2) kept the class size intentionally low so the only students admitted were ones with high GPA and LSAT scores and (3) hired one of the most prestigious con law professors in the country as its first dean.  There is almost zero chance UNCC would have the will or resources to do any of that.  

[ertley]

18 hours ago, QCxpat said:

I have long found it surprising that Charlotte is the largest city in the United States without the following institutions: 

• (1) a full medical school; 
• (2) an accredited law school; 
• (3) a renowned music conservatory;
• (4) a zoo or an aquarium; and
• (5) a beautiful botanical garden.  

Charlotte is such a lovely city and ought to have all of the above institutions;  so I'm thrilled that Wake Forest University and Atrium Health have agreed  to bring a branch of the prestigious Wake Forest School of Medicine to Charlotte.     

Let's do what we can so that, in 10 years, Charlotte has laid the foundations for all of the above institutions, and so it can no longer be said that Charlotte is the largest city in the country without them.

In terms of 1 and 2, I accede to those with knowledge of those fields, etc. If NYtoCLT is correct, then a credible law school may never happen (unless, say, Davidson keeps rising in national rankings and decides, years down the road, to put forth enough money, a la UC Irvine, to start a law school, with their name giving it immediate prestige??). But a top 25 U.S. city, in one way or another, has to have a legit medical school...

3. ? (I'm not a musician and have no idea what this would take.) But I still stand by my idea that the old First Baptist/Spirit Square building should be renovated as a both a meeting space for the library as well as a performance space with a focus on musical acts, and just getting some kind of traction, in terms of a good venue downtown, could catalyze *something*. 

4. I actually do think--unlike, say, with the UNC system issues that have stymied Charlotte's prominence or independence in other areas--Charlotte shouldn't try and establish a zoo of its own, but instead collaborate in furthering the mission of the North Carolina Zoo. I'm not a zoo aficionado, but I think it's an amazing facility that other cities and *states* will be hard-pressed to beat when/if it's ever fully realized, with (theoretically) unlimited capacity to expand in size and scope, Being within a reasonable distance from Charlotte, my hope would be that with whatever form of high speed rail ends up along the 85 corridor, that the state (with Charlotte's advocacy) prioritizes a spur from, or at the very least multi-modal station at, the Lexington area, so folks can readily take the train from Charlotte (or any other city), and easily transfer to another train or express buses to the zoo. If you could make the trip happen within an hour timeframe (from the downtown station to the zoo entrance), it would be wildly popular. Not having to drive, with the kids restless, in the car up 49, park, yada yada...

    The N.C. Aquarium is a long ways away, so a cool aquarium in Charlotte could be something that's worth focusing on, instead, IMO. Maybe the new Discovery Place could put that on its wish list for a future expansion...

5. In terms of a botanical garden, I've long thought the city should invest more in--basic promotion, along with expanding the size and scope of--the McGill Rose Garden. I'm a big believer in looking at what assets you currently possess and concentrating on those, rather than unnecessarily duplicating efforts. The city has already assembled a continuous swath of land along the creek from Alexander Park/277 all the way up to Cordelia Park/24th St, for the greenway--all they have to do is dedicate the 'grey' land they already own behind McGill to park as well, which is nothing but parking lots presently. McGill can be extended backwards/southeast, with formal plantings that aren't roses, extending the expanded (in size and scope) garden towards and within Alexander Park. I would argue for basically continuing this new botanical garden throughout the greenway, with more natural, native plantings. It wouldn't create the mega urban park being advocating for here in the site, but it wouldn't be nothing. I imagine that one day the bus repair facility on Davidson will be relocated, and that block could even be redeveloped as mixed use, to offset the loss of revenue from selling/developing the lot(s) given over to the expanded McGill. You would have a botanical garden as part of the city's (longest?) greenway,  two blocks from the First Ward, and five blocks each from the Blue/Silver transfer station, the Central Avenue/10th intersection and Optimist Park/Belmont.   

[Blue_Devil]

17 hours ago, NYtoCLT said:

The problem is we already have too many law schools and graduates of low ranked law schools have little to no realistic chance of gainful employment as lawyers.  Low ranked law schools are often predatory and do a disservice to their community.  Getting rid off Charlotte School of Law was good for Charlotte.

The thing is, it would be almost impossible for Charlotte to get a decently ranked law school because any new school wouldn't have the history or brand appeal to carry it as a prestigious institution.  The only precedent for a new law school bucking the trend of new=low ranked is UC Irvine in 2007.  They invested a ton of money to do that though.  They (1) gave a full ride to EVERY student in its inaugural class, (2) kept the class size intentionally low so the only students admitted were ones with high GPA and LSAT scores and (3) hired one of the most prestigious con law professors in the country as its first dean.  There is almost zero chance UNCC would have the will or resources to do any of that.  

I mean, they pulled Chemerinsky from Duke. If UNC wanted to they could build a great school here, but they don't. I actually think a school focused on legal compliance and finance would do well here, but it has to be of a higher caliber. No more schools like Charlotte School of Law.

[NYtoCLT]

59 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, they pulled Chemerinsky from Duke. If UNC wanted to they could build a great school here, but they don't. I actually think a school focused on legal compliance and finance would do well here, but it has to be of a higher caliber. No more schools like Charlotte School of Law.

Law schools don't specialize/focus.  Or more accurately, law school specialization/focus is a marketing tool with little real world impact.  People care about what your law school's ranking is (and they really care), but no one cares what your law school's healthcare, environmental or other specialty ranking is (even if you are in that specialty.)   A classic example of this is environmental law.  Someone who wants to go into environmental law will get into Vermont or Lewis and Clark and go there because of how good it is for environmental law.  Unfortunately for that person, most places hiring for environmental law are going to hire someone from a better school (if similar grades and interest) and not think twice and how good a school's "Environmental Law program" is. 

The classic piece of advice is to go to the best law school that you get into that you can afford to go to.

Yes, UCI hired Chemerinsky from Duke.  But the offering free tuition for the first year and limiting class size to be selective were the more important factors.  What university in this area has the resources or desire to take that risk?

Also, probably most important reason why it wouldnt be successful here is that UNCC also doesn't have the prestige to pull it off.  UCI undergrad is ranked 36.  UNCC is 228.   UNCC would create a public version of Charlotte School of Law (cheaper so better, but equally bad employment prospects).  Davidson could probably pull it off for a small law school but it would be a huge risk for them.

[Blue_Devil]

48 minutes ago, NYtoCLT said:

Law schools don't specialize/focus.  Or more accurately, law school specialization/focus is a marketing tool with little real world impact.  People care about what your law school's ranking is (and they really care), but no one cares what your law school's healthcare, environmental or other specialty ranking is (even if you are in that specialty.)   A classic example of this is environmental law.  Someone who wants to go into environmental law will get into Vermont or Lewis and Clark and go there because of how good it is for environmental law.  Unfortunately for that person, most places hiring for environmental law are going to hire someone from a better school (if similar grades and interest) and not think twice and how good a school's "Environmental Law program" is. 

The classic piece of advice is to go to the best law school that you get into that you can afford to go to.

Yes, UCI hired Chemerinsky from Duke.  But the offering free tuition for the first year and limiting class size to be selective were the more important factors.  What university in this area has the resources or desire to take that risk?

Also, probably most important reason why it wouldnt be successful here is that UNCC also doesn't have the prestige to pull it off.  UCI undergrad is ranked 36.  UNCC is 228.   UNCC would create a public version of Charlotte School of Law (cheaper so better, but equally bad employment prospects).  Davidson could probably pull it off for a small law school but it would be a huge risk for them.

Man, I went to law school, and in the past I was an attorney. Plenty of law schools have focuses, especially in LLM programs. Yes, rankings are extremely important unless you have a specific feeder. And Davidson doesn't have Grad programs, it is not their mission.