Hottest SE City For Development

[bobliocatt]

I checked the list out. I didn't go through every project, but just about all of the "orange" colored projects were low rise or infrastruture projects, in general. I'll go through it in more detail later, but it appears that Charlotte's number of highrises under construction may be about the same or lower than the number of ones, under construction in Jax.

[A2]

I checked the list out. I didn't go through every project, but just about all of the "orange" colored projects were low rise or infrastruture projects, in general. I'll go through it in more detail later, but it appears that Charlotte's number of highrises under construction may be about the same or lower than the number of ones, under construction in Jax.

There are 7 u/c right now. Hope that helps. And yes many of the others listed on the map are low rise and mid rise residential pieces. The thing that is funny is that even that map is old with many projects recently announced not even listed. The entire Downtown in 10-15 years will be filled in. The purpose of this thread is to detail, "Which city in 05' has been the hottest in SE development". Charlotte is definately the winner, with Atlanta also making HUGE strides in adding to their CBD and Midtown area.

The 7 towers U/C are the ones happening right now, with more starting in the latter part of the year and more to come in 06'. The important thing to note is that the towers are just ONE component to a succesfull Center City. It takes all types of development from low-rise to mid-rise residential, to retail, and bars/restraunts. Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and London are GREAT exapmles of this. All of these critical pieces are coming together to make CLT a dynamic Uptown, with many projects u/c adding to its synergy.

A2

(all are taller than 12 stories)

[Dale]

There are at least 7 u/c right now in downtown Orlando, with at least one more breaking ground in the next few weeks.

Certainly Charlotte's got it in height. No one would argue that point. But it can't compete in terms of numbers of highrise u/c and planned, if those are indeed the criteria.

[Viper]

If 7 be the case, Miami, Orlando and Tampa all have more than that going up this year.

Emporis figures (accuracy not guranteed)

Miami - 50 U/C

Atlanta - 13 U/C

Tampa - 12 U/C

Orlando - 9 U/C

Ft Myers - 9 U/C

Ft Laud - 8 U/C

Sarasota - 6 U/C

Jax - 5 U/C

Charlotte - 4 U/C (Don't shoot the messenger)

St Petersbug - 4 U/C

Nashville - 3 U/C

Jacksonville Beach - 3 U/C

Yeah, this listing is way off but it's a leat a minimum of what's going on plus it doesn't list those that were completed this year already or that will start before the end of the year.

[A2]

There are at least 7 u/c right now in downtown Orlando, with at least one more breaking ground in the next few weeks.

Certainly Charlotte's got it in height. No one would argue that point. But it can't compete in terms of numbers of highrise u/c and planned, if those are indeed the criteria.

This thread is for Hottest development in 05'.

BUT....

If we go by proposed high rises CLT is still up there with over 24 proposed (just listed on Emporis), more than that in the pipe for 06'.

Again, that is if we are JUST referring to just planned and proposed higrises.

I want to also emphasize that we are speaking about Highrises, not ALL development. We are leaving out retail, Arenas, Transit Hubs, restraunts/bars, cultural facilities, and many other pieces that add to a downtown. Charlotte is not just focused on building the tallest highrise, they are focused on Uptown being a true Urban mecca. This is where people live and can go bowling, catch a movie, watch a ball game, Shop, visit a Park, and the list goes on and on.

The high rise component does not satisfy making a center city more livable, it just adds asthetically to a skyline.

A2

[Dale]

If we go by proposed high rises CLT is still up there with over 24 proposed (just listed on Emporis), more than that in the pipe for 06'.

Again, that is if we are JUST referring to just planned and proposed higrises.

A2

A2 -

Little old Ft. Myers has at least thirty.

[bobliocatt]

There are 7 u/c right now. Hope that helps. And yes many of the others listed on the map are low rise and mid rise residential pieces. The thing that is funny is that even that map is old with many projects recently announced not even listed. The entire Downtown in 10-15 years will be filled in. The purpose of this thread is to detail, "Which city in 05' has been the hottest in SE development". Charlotte is definately the winner, with Atlanta also making HUGE strides in adding to their CBD and Midtown area.

The 7 towers U/C are the ones happening right now, with more starting in the latter part of the year and more to come in 06'. The important thing to note is that the towers are just ONE component to a succesfull Center City. It takes all types of development from low-rise to mid-rise residential, to retail, and bars/restraunts. Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and London are GREAT exapmles of this. All of these critical pieces are coming together to make CLT a dynamic Uptown, with many projects u/c adding to its synergy.

A2

(all are taller than 12 stories)

The thing is that its hard to sit and say Charlotte clearly leads the SE, without even knowing what's going on in other large booming cities. Especially, the ones that have booming urban neighborhoods outside of the downtown core, such as Tampa & Jax. Its inaccurate to assume that none of these other cities are also seeing low-to-mid rise projects rising, in addition to the highrise towers. For example, some of Jax's most exciting projects are adaptive reuse of turn-of-the-century high-rise and mid-rise buildings, something Charlotte doesn't have a large number of. At this point, based off the Charlotte map shown, there's no proof to suggest that its the SE's most booming city, outside of Miami, in terms of absolute or percentage numbers, proposed highrise or total number of residential units under construction.

[A2]

If 7 be the case, Miami, Orlando and Tampa all have more than that going up this year.

Emporis figures (accuracy not guranteed)

Miami - 50 U/C

Atlanta - 13 U/C

Tampa - 12 U/C

Orlando - 9 U/C

Ft Myers - 9 U/C

Ft Laud - 8 U/C

Sarasota - 6 U/C

Jax - 5 U/C

Charlotte - 4 U/C (Don't shoot the messenger)

St Petersbug - 4 U/C

Nashville - 3 U/C

Jacksonville Beach - 3 U/C

Yeah, this listing is way off but it's a leat a minimum of what's going on plus it doesn't list those that were completed this year already or that will start before the end of the year.

Let's look at cities like Boston and Philly, which only have 20 between the two of them with Buildings U/C. These cities are better exapmles of Urban cores than all of the above listed cities and they are experiencing a boom in their Downtowns too. Just becuase they have only 20 U/C does not mean much.

[Dale]

Let's look at cities like Boston and Philly, which only have 20 between the two of them with Buildings U/C. These cities are better exapmles of Urban cores than all of the above listed cities and they are experiencing a boom in their Downtowns too. Just becuase they have only 20 U/C does not mean much.

Say what ? Now the citerion has shifted to the 'Hottest City in the Southeast with a particular kind of core' ?

By the way, Moonshield listed 11 proposed for Uptown Charlotte. How does Emporis get 24 ?

[A2]

A2 -

Little old Ft. Myers has at least thirty.

Philladelphia, Boston and Baltimore combined have only 25 ! Less than little ol' Ft. Myers, but that does not mean they are making a better city. This speaks of nothing to me.

I could point out many other coastal cities who are listed on Emporis that have high rise booms going on, but all they are are your cookie cutter variety condos and Hotels.

A2

[bobliocatt]

I was in Boston last month. It didn't appear to be booming at the core. Growth was relatively modest, but the area is well kept and has always been vibrant. None of the cities on this list will ever resemble those historic dense cities in terms of built environment or vibrancy. They should be taken out of the conversation.

[A2]

Say what ? Now the citerion has shifted to the 'Hottest City in the Southeast with a particular kind of core' ?

By the way, Moonshield listed 11 proposed for Uptown Charlotte. How does Emporis get 24 ?

check the site

12 Proposed

6 Approved

6 total U/C

_________

Total 24

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/?id=101310

A2

(and Emporis is slow to update)

[A2]

None of the cities on this list will ever resemble those historic dense cities in terms of built environment or vibrancy. They should be taken out of the conversation.

Charlote will be very similar in its core to many cities in Eourpe and yes even a small Boston with the orientation of develpment going on now. It will have many residential developments between 4-10 stories in the wards and high-rises along the transit coridors. Furman and many other develpers in Charlotte have pointed to 75K number for quite some time for a count of residents lining within the loop within 20 years. That is 75K in an 1.5 square mile area. How dense do you want it?

If you do the math the density will rival many cities in the NE in the city core.

A2

[Dale]

Philladelphia, Boston and Baltimore combined have only 25 ! Less than little ol' Ft. Myers, but that does not mean they are making a better city. This speaks of nothing to me.

I could point out many other coastal cities who are listed on Emporis that have high rise booms going on, but all they are are your cookie cutter variety condos and Hotels.

A2

But now you're on to 'better city'. If you keep on shifting the criteria, how can anyone else win ?

[A2]

But now you're on to 'better city'. If you keep on shifting the criteria, how can anyone else win ?

No I am trying to point out that this has become a high-rise debate, because of the emporis and U/C coments being thrown around. I am focused on TOTAL development in 05'.

IMO Atlanta and Charlotte have that title of the SE cities listed, outside of maybe Miami.

A2

[Dale]

check the site

12 Proposed

6 Approved

6 total U/C

_________

Total 24

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/?id=101310

A2

(and Emporis is slow to update)

I can't access it. But I wonder how firm the 12 proposed are. Downtown Orlando has roughly thirty u/c or firm proposals. Were you to include the speculative and the hinted at, it might be closer to forty for all I know.

[bobliocatt]

Charlote will be very similar in its core to many cities in Eourpe and yes even a small Boston with the orientation of develpment going on now. It will have many residential developments between 4-10 stories in the wards and high-rises along the transit coridors. Furman and many other develpers in Charlotte have pointed to 75K number for quite some time for a count of residents lining within the loop within 20 years. That is 75K in an 1.5 square mile area. How dense do you want it?

If you do the math the density will rival many cities in the NE in the city core.

A2

Although I'm tempted, I'm not going to touch this one with a 10ft pole. I'll just say there's nothing about Charlotte that will ever resemble the orientation and pedestrian scale layout of Boston or any other waterfront city that developed before cars were invented. What you'll see form, in the long run is a more modern version of Atlanta or Houston.

[A2]

I can't access it. But I wonder how firm the 12 proposed are. Downtown Orlando has roughly thirty u/c or firm proposals. Were you to include the speculative and the hinted at, it might be closer to forty for all I know.

VERY FIRM.

I know many who post on here that can't disclose projects that have not even been announed yet (simply because of NDA's). When counts are updated you will be VERY surprised. Another point to make is I have seen developers overwhemed by the demand in Center city.

Just last week the VUE announced they are wanting to add floors just because of demand in CC. The Vue alone will rival BofA in total height, with a floor count approaching 60.

A2

[Viper]

"What city (In the SE) is the hottest in terms of development so far in '05?"

^If an already established dense urban core were part of the requirements, then you should have listed that. You requested cities that are booming, I gave. We're not trying to argue here, we just want to understand what are the full requirements you are requesting?

[Dale]

No I am trying to point out that this has become a high-rise debate, because of the emporis and U/C coments being thrown around. I am focused on TOTAL development in 05'.

IMO Atlanta and Charlotte have that title of the SE cities listed, outside of maybe Miami.

A2

But if you'll notice, A2. i and most of the other forumers quickly surmised numbers of highrises from 'Hottest ... for development', not 'Most Quickly Europeanizing'.

And I wouldn't necessarily consider Charlotte a frontrunner in that category either (much as I like Charlotte).

[A2]

Although I'm tempted, I'm not going to touch this one with a 10ft pole. I'll just say there's nothing about Charlotte that will ever resemble the orientation and pedestrian scale layout of Boston or any other waterfront city that developed before cars were invented. What you'll see form, in the long run is a more modern version of Atlanta or Houston.

I disagree 100%. I have lived in the NE and can tell you that when you add x amount of residents into such a small compact area the density number is jacked to a number that will be VERY close to a Boston. This of course is in a MUCH smaller area, so the mass will be concentrated, but for that concentrated area , I can assure you that Charlotte will be there in 20 years.

A2

[Viper]

Density doesn't euate the setting of Boston. LA is one of the densest cities in America yet it's a near opposite of boston.

[teshadoh]

Ah - I'll join then (though anything proposed is often just a pipe dream)

Atlanta:

26 Proposed

4 Approved

13 U/C

Total 33

For comparison sake - 193 have been completed (or in their db), meaning 11.8% of potential future towers are proposed / approved / UC right now.

For Charlotte, it is 29.3% - which would make their growth very pronounced.

Miami:

88 approved

50 U/C

29 Proposed

167 total

With 198 being in the current list of towers - giving Miami an absolutely amazing figure of 45.7% of all potential future towers are proposed / approved / UC right now!

Besides the raw numbers, Miami's tower boom is easily unmatched in the southeast.

[A2]

But if you'll notice, A2. i and most of the other forumers quickly surmised numbers of highrises from 'Hottest ... for development', not 'Most Quickly Europeanizing'.

And I wouldn't necessarily consider Charlotte a frontrunner in that category either (much as I like Charlotte).

Let's define the total dollar investment in your respective city in the last year. What is it?

(I am not contesting Highrises u/c , proposed, or anything remotely close. I am simply stating from a development stand point. TOTAL develoment in Charlotte is EXPLODING. Including highrises, but not limited to just that aspect.

Again, it is the total package that makes a city, not a tall building.

Atlantic station is Atlanta is not full of high-rises, but what it has done for Atlanta can't be typed into a short post. It is projects that are catalysts that make the difference.

A2

[Dale]

Okay, let's clarify:

'What's the most rapidly Bostonizing city in the SE' ?

Let's define the total dollar investment in your respective city in the last year. What is it?

(I am not contesting Highrises u/c , proposed, or anything remotely close. I am simply stating from a development stand point. TOTAL develoment in Charlotte is EXPLODING. Including highrises, but not limited to just that aspect.

Again, it is the total package that makes a city, not a tall building.

Atlantic station is Atlanta is not full of high-rises, but what it has done for Atlanta can't be typed into a short post. It is projects that are catalysts that make the difference.

A2

*feels dizzy at this point*