K-12 Education in South Carolina

[knightrider162]

House Speaker Bobby Harrell is proposing a $16 million plan under which LIFE scholars who are studying math, science or engineering would receive an additional $2,500 per year, for a total of $7,500. Palmetto Fellows with technology majors would receive an additional $3,300 per year, for a total of $10,000. The grant would start in their sophomore year.

Backed up by representatives from BMW, Michelin, Roche Pharmaceuticals, BellSouth and the Savannah River Site, Harrell said he aims to create an incentive for more of the state’s best and brightest students to remain in South Carolina and enter professions that will promote economic development in the state.

Thank God, thats just in time!!! Clemson is expensxive..

[krazeeboi]

It's definitely a good thing, particularly in connection with ICAR and Innovista. However, a part of me wonders if this will simply hasten the exodus of our young, bright minds to neighboring states.

[Spartan]

That is good news indeed. The USC is become more expensive as well. Tuition hikes are a problem everywhere, though Clemson has made more news with its lately. Thankfully grad school tuition hasn't increased!

[krazeeboi]

Education Week ranked the state 41st in the latest national evaluation of public school quality, policies, and socio-economic conditions. The state, credited for having the nation

[GvilleSC]

The SC education lottery supports public education in the state. I was looking at the appropriation of funds by county and found the amount per county was rather interesting.

The money is distributed based on a formula established by the legislature.

Charleston County (all 8 districts combined)

enrollment: 48,500

funds: $24,913,195

Greenville County

enrollment: 65,287

funds: $17,518,499

Lexington County

enrollment: 49,807

funds: $17,424,747

Richland County

enrollment: 24,000 + Richland 2 (couldn't find the number)

funds: $20,394,808

Spartanburg County

enrollment: 27,400 + Spartanburg 2 (couldn't find the number)

funds: $15,451,099

I'd sure like to see this formula that has sent $7million more to Charleston County than to Greenville County, which is not only the state's largest district, but also the fastest growing district adding over 1,300 students last year. Lexington has almost received the same amount of money as Greenville and it's about 16,000 students less... Can anyone shed some light on this?

[krazeeboi]

Seems like the formula would have been found on the same site the figures came from.

I bet performance probably has something to do with it. Public schools in Lexington and Greenville counties tend to do better than most, so that may be why they get less money. That's just a guess.

I know one thing: we need some more money allocated for higher education. NC spends over $12K per student in terms of higher education, compared with SC's paltry $4K.

[Charleston's Son]

Seems like the formula would have been found on the same site the figures came from.

I bet performance probably has something to do with it. Public schools in Lexington and Greenville counties tend to do better than most, so that may be why they get less money. That's just a guess.

I know one thing: we need some more money allocated for higher education. NC spends over $12K per student in terms of higher education, compared with SC's paltry $4K.

I'm leaning more towards to what the previous poster stated. Unfortunately, Charleston County Schools perform poorly on tests across the board. Strides are being made for sure, but there is more work to be done. I suppose the state funnels more money down here in hopes of improving the dire situation in our schools. On paper, the best schools here are East Cooper and there are some others scattered "making the grade" according to the standards set forth, but this is very debatable. Don't get me started on that topic. However, I wonder if this is historically true, that is, Charleston schools receiving more money than other major school districts?

[MikesLogic]

North Charleston Wants Out Of County School District

This is pretty bad, it doesn't say in the article but I would like to know exactly what the problem for the North Charleston officials is.

Whatever they are talking about, it can't be funding. Stall high school is one of the schools folks complain about in North Charleston, but it receives $2000 more per student than do Wando High School students, and $1600 more than West Ashley High School students. North Charleston High School also receives more funding.

But whatever angers those in North Charleston, it's been brewing for a while. The council already had one meeting with Goodloe-Johnson.

I saw in an article the other day that 4 of the 5 largest public schools in SC are in the Charleston metro. Not enough funding for more schools or what?

[Spartan]

I think they would be hardpressed to get a new district, especially when the Governor is talking about consolidation in the counties with too many districts. I'm interested to see what their problem is, because its usually a money related issue- and in this case that seems to be a null and void issue.

[Spartan]

So what do you think of Jim Rex's plan for our education system? He has proposed a lot of changes. These are just a few of them as quoted from the P&C:

"Increasing teachers' salaries, giving additional incentives to teachers who teach in high-poverty schools, altering the state's school funding formula and changing standardized testing"

Post & Courier

The State

I am all for it. I think the incentives for teachers in high poverty areas is a great idea, and also increasing teacher pay in general to be more in line with North Carolina and Georgia.

[krazeeboi]

It all sounds good to me; I hope these represent the beginning of more needed recommendations. Let's see how it actually pans out.

[Spartan]

Senator Jim Richie (R-Spartanburg) has introduced a bill. to give all students in SC public schools a laptop. It would cost $10 million to buy the laptops, and it would cost another $30 million to set up a statewide broadband network, which is in a separate bill.

"School districts will own the laptops, but students will use them through high school. There could be an option for students to purchase the computers once they graduate."

South Carolina would be the first in the nation to do both of these. Supposedly there is a fair amount of support for these bills.

[krazeeboi]

^I saw that, and I think it's a great proposal. It would be nice to see us rank first in the nation in a GOOD area of public education.

I like this Richie guy. He might need to consider a run for governor.

[Spartan]

Indeed

[pyper]

I hope those laptops are rugged!

I know a guy who got his son a laptop when he was in HS. It was pretty much ready for disposal after 4 years.

You know. Having high standards is good, but there's a problem when you ignore common sense because of them. I help my wife grade papers some times. The kids in 8th grade can't write in cursive. Why? It's not on the PACT test so they don't teach it.

I like Jim Rex's talk. I don't know how much of what he proposes he'll be able to implement though. I have a feeling the legislature is going to block a lot of it.

My wife, who has taught in innner city schools (in South Carolina), says that the single most important issue holding back improvments in educational outcome is class size. The problem, according to her, is that, especially (but not only) in inner-city schools, there will be kids who will be intentionally disruptive. In a small class, the teacher can put extra energy into keeping the one disruptive student engaged. In a class that's twice as big, there are twice as many problem children, and much less time to spend on them (because all the other kids need the teacher's time too). Not only that, but for each actively disruptive student, there are several other borderline cases. These kids won't act out on their own, but they'll follow when someone else acts out. More and more of the teaher's time (exponentially) goes into keeping control of the learning environment, and less goes to teaching.

[CorgiMatt]

As usual, Midlands schools dominate the Palmetto's Finest award for 2007.

[Spartan]

The kids in 8th grade can't write in cursive. Why? It's not on the PACT test so they don't teach it.

I can't/don't write in cursive (well, not very easily), and I was out of the school system before the PACT was started. I was taught cursive of course, but I chose not to use it. My print is so much more legible. Cursive is such an obsolete method of writing anyway. I don't see any plus sides to it. Its harder to read and confusing to learn two more sets of letters. Plus books and computers simplify the process. Its less time spent relearning the alphabet, so I am all for phasing that out of schools altogether (which I have heard suggested before).

Sorry about the rant there. Your point is well taken. That money should be spent towards other things like teacher salar increases and incentives for teaching at rural schools. I should add that the computer idea came from the legislature, not Jim Rex.

[Captain Worley]

I print, too, as my cursive is horrible. I have no idea why they teach that.

Anyway, I'd rather see them put the extra money into teachers' salaries than laptops. The schools pretty much all have computer labs and a lot of kids already have access at home. I think that should be more than enough. The schools need to concentrate more on reading, writing, math, and science.

The documentation required by the schools for 'accountability' is ridiculous as well. My wife teaches special ed/resource, and the amount of paperwork and meetings she has to attend is incredible. She's a great teacher and could use her time a lot better without the onerous burden of paperwork she has to generate proving she does her job.

[MikesLogic]

I like writing in cursive but I feel it should be an elective like art or something. No need for it to be mandatory it's more creative than anything.

[pyper]

Cursive writing is faster. Faster = more productive. You can bet now that there's a written componenet to the SAT they're going to start teaching cursive writing again -- less time writing means more time you can spend thinking and organizing, which translates into higher scores. I heard an NPR story on script writing and they said at one time cursive was the *only* form of writing taught. Printing was introduced in fairly modern times. Like it or not, people draw conclusions about you based on how you present yourself, and handwriting is part of presentation. When we screen resume's for job applicants sometimes the envelope tells me all I need to know. How's a secretary going to do her job if she can't read her boss's cursive writing?

My wife has pointed out that none of her kids can write a paragraph that makes sense. They haven't been taught how to organize thoughts (Topic, body, conclusion). Same idea -- it's not on the test so it isn't taught. Don't get me started on spelling.

Teacher pay is kind of wierd. It's low for a first year teacher. A lot of first year teachers give up because the money isn't worth the aggravation. But a teacher with 20 years experience has a salary of somewhere around $50,000. In some counties that's one of the best salaries. And all you have to do to get the raises is stick with it. The worst teachers get the same year after year increases as the best.

[Spartan]

Cursive writing is faster. Faster = more productive. You can bet now that there's a written componenet to the SAT they're going to start teaching cursive writing again -- less time writing means more time you can spend thinking and organizing, which translates into higher scores. I heard an NPR story on script writing and they said at one time cursive was the *only* form of writing taught. Printing was introduced in fairly modern times. Like it or not, people draw conclusions about you based on how you present yourself, and handwriting is part of presentation. When we screen resume's for job applicants sometimes the envelope tells me all I need to know. How's a secretary going to do her job if she can't read her boss's cursive writing?

My wife has pointed out that none of her kids can write a paragraph that makes sense. They haven't been taught how to organize thoughts (Topic, body, conclusion). Same idea -- it's not on the test so it isn't taught. Don't get me started on spelling.

Teacher pay is kind of wierd. It's low for a first year teacher. A lot of first year teachers give up because the money isn't worth the aggravation. But a teacher with 20 years experience has a salary of somewhere around $50,000. In some counties that's one of the best salaries. And all you have to do to get the raises is stick with it. The worst teachers get the same year after year increases as the best.

I would argue that while cursive may be faster, but its not neater. Mine sure isnt. Nobody handwrites anything except for tests and personal notes anyway. Most documents are typed now in all professions. I think that as long as you are learning to write/type the same way, then its ok.

Again though, your point is well taken. If you can't construct a coherent sentace, it really doesn't matter what style you write in.

[SimCity]

So the consensus here is that cursive is like Latin? Useful and pretty but obsolete?

[pyper]

My boss doesn't type. Sometimes he dictates, but usually he writes things for the secretary to type up. Does everyone else's boss do their own typing?

I think it's easier to make cursive look nicer than printing. The faster one writes, the greater the neatness/speed ration tilts in favor of cursive. That's the reason for my prediction for the renasiance of script writing -- people who can do it will score higher on the SAT, the ultimate driver of all education policy, it seems.

[Captain Worley]

I posted this at another message board I'm on, but it fits here, too.

I've had an interesting life. I have a Master's in Mechanical Engineering, I've worked for stae and federal governments, as well as private industry. I've taught HS college level classes, at a tech school, and at a state prison. My wife teaches special ed. here's a few observations, take it for whatever you will.

1) I was one of two white boys in the master's program I was in. everyone else was Pakistani or Indian the first time I was there. the second time, everyone but me was Chinese.

2) Kids don't go into engineering because they don't want to do the math. Too much effort. they told me outright.

3) Teaching in the prisons is far better than teaching in public schools. you have control of the classroom, can discipline the students (they got time added to their sentence and booted out of class for misbehaving), and you don't have to put up with the parents.

4) The paperwork teachers have to do to prove they are doing their job is onerous and takes away from their teaching time.

5) God help you if you give little Johnny a bad grade. i had a parent call the school's dean because I gave their son an F and it was jeopardizing his scholarship. Dean sat in my class, watched me teach, then called the lady and told her if he failed, he wasn't putting any effort into the tests. If I had been actually in the public school system, I'd have gotten a written reprimand.

6) Reading writing, arithmetic, science, and history are foundations that need to be taught. Not computers, not health, not social skills. Those duties belong to parents.

7) 50% of the parents don't care at all about their kids. it isn't a racial or economic issue. it is a social problem.

8) Schools need to get out of the food business. No breakfasts, no lunches. just picnic tables. Food is to be provided by parents.

I'm sure there is more, but i have to rant mode=off.

[Spartan]

My boss doesn't type. Sometimes he dictates, but usually he writes things for the secretary to type up. Does everyone else's boss do their own typing?

I think it's easier to make cursive look nicer than printing. The faster one writes, the greater the neatness/speed ration tilts in favor of cursive. That's the reason for my prediction for the renasiance of script writing -- people who can do it will score higher on the SAT, the ultimate driver of all education policy, it seems.

I find that quite interesting. That sounds like a unique case of old-fashioned business practices. My various superiors and the other boss type people that I know do all of their own typing, without exception. Its sort of redundant to write it out once and then have it typed. But if you don't know how to type ot just don't want to for whatever reason, then I guess that would be the best way to do it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with cursive's apprearance. I find it more difficult to read people's writing in cursive. I should add that my "print" is actually sort of my own hybrid of cursive and print. Its just not filled with the circles and loops that cursive is.