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Differences in Raleigh and Charlotte


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Same for Cisco. Cisco hires more programmers than engineers.

I find this hard to believe. (in the triangle area that is, not nationally)

Redhat is not a programming company a la Microsoft, though they do employ some programmers. I would have thought you would have realized that as well.

I realized this, however my dream job was always to be a kernel hacker at Redhat :D

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So getting away from who is bigger IBM or BOA.

Charlotte has the Charlotte Symphony Orchestra, which performs in the

Blumenthal Performing Arts Center and Summer Pops concerts at South Park.

The North Carolina School of Dance is also here in Charlotte.

Blumenthal Performing Arts Center is in a class of it's own in North Carolina.

Charlotte is way ahead in the way of public transportation with the trolley, and the LRT coming in 2007.

Neiman Marcus in the Fall of 2006! at South Park Mall

21st largest airport in the US with avg. 525 flights daily

38th worldwide in size of airport.

Provides non-stop or single plane service to more than 112 cities.

Located here are 279 trucking companies

Charlotte is the sixth largest trading area in the nation.

450 companies have headquarters located here.

9 Fortune 500 Companies headquarter in Charlotte area.

So this shows that banking is not the only thing going on in Charlotte.

Raleigh has the lower air fares.

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In Febuary of last year, I visited Charlotte for the first time in several years for a non-airport reason. I live and work in the Raleigh-Durham area, and while the economic indicators for both the Triangle and Charlotte are strong, as a place, as a seat of culture, regional influence, and as a modern, living, city, Charlotte is very far ahead of Raleigh.

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Raleigh's downtown is so empty and boring. There's like nothing to do except the science and history museums. Plus Raleigh isn't the most accessiable either. Right after you get off I-40 and proceed on Wade Ave it's about 5 miles. In Charlotte you can just hop right off of 77 and be in uptown.

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So getting away from who is bigger IBM or BOA.

Charlotte has the Charlotte Symphony Orchestra, which performs in the

Blumenthal Performing Arts Center and Summer Pops concerts at South Park.

The North Carolina School of Dance is also here in Charlotte.

Blumenthal Performing Arts Center is in a class of it's own in North Carolina.

RDU has the NC Symphony which performs at the Progress Energy Center for the Performing Arts, then there's the American Dance Festival, the NC Museum of Art, the Ackland, the Nasher, DUMA, and tons of great galleries. There's a performance venue in Cary, a new one planned in Durham, and the venues affiliated with the three major universities, and other affiliated with the smaller schools. The science museums in downtown Raleigh, including Exploris, and the NC Museum of Life & Science in Durham are tops-- I think the natural science museum rivals the Smithsonian, albeit on a smaller scale.

Charlotte is way ahead in the way of public transportation with the trolley, and the LRT coming in 2007.

Can't argue with you there. As we moan about on the Triangle Boards all the time, if only our region could get stronger support from the business community and a dedicated source of local funding.

Neiman Marcus in the Fall of 2006! at South Park Mall

RDU has Saks & Nordstroms.

21st largest airport in the US with avg. 525 flights daily

38th worldwide in size of airport.

Provides non-stop or single plane service to more than 112 cities.

It's true, and I love the CLT airport, but the numbers are because of CLT's hub status. Actual local enplanements (trips originating at the airport rather than just transferring inside it) are greater at RDU.

Located here are 279 trucking companies

Charlotte is the sixth largest trading area in the nation.

450 companies have headquarters located here.

9 Fortune 500 Companies headquarter in Charlotte area.

So this shows that banking is not the only thing going on in Charlotte.

Raleigh has the lower air fares.

These are great statistics and you're right; it illustrates that the city has more than banking. RTP has been an ecomonnic engine for this region for a generation now, but Raleigh's place as the seat of state government means that's going to be our dominant industry for some time; Durham's glory days as an industrial center are long gone, but it's poised to emerge as a Creative Class center for hightech industry, not just in RTP but in the downtown area as well.

As to the shape of RDU's central cities, the population and actiity is spread over at least four distinct areas. Imagine if one combined the employees in downtown Raleigh, Durham, RTP, and SAS in Cary into a dense urban form in one place. It would be a powerhouse of a place. As it is, the region has relied too much on the low density model for too many years. I think this trend is reversing, and in a few short years, you'll have two downtown's that rival Charlotte's; maybe not in building height, but in density, interest and activity.

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Sometimes I feel as if people in Raleigh assume that just because something is the official state (fill in the blank) that it is the largest and/or the best. This isn't always the case. It is great that both cities have a great symphony but comparing the two:

Charlotte: 100+ musicians and 115 performances per year

Raleigh: 65 musicians and 60 performances per year

and Raleigh doesn't get all of those performances as the Symphony must be shared with other Triangle cities.

We also have the largest Opera Company in the Carolina's.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's just that sometimes people in Raleigh try to use the "official state" moniker to unjustly undermine some of Charlotte's wonderful art institutions. I don't want to be overly boosterish but some folks in Raleigh should learn more about what the Queen City offers culturally and will offer culturally. Here is some info about the arts in Charlotte (and pretty much all of this with the exception of one or two are in Uptown). This is just some of what's going on, this isn't nearly a completed list. If you want more info on what the ASC of Charlotte does check out their site, and check out the Cultural Facilities Master Plan. Charlotte is far from a cultural void when compared to Raleigh and I invite Raleigh residents to visit sometime and check things out first hand (I checked out yours first hand :D ). We're not the backwoods folk you try to make us out to be sometimes.

Science Museum

As far as our science museum (Discovery Place) is concerned the ASC listed it as "one of the top 10 science museums in the country". I don't know how they came about saying that so it can be taken with a grain of salt. However there are now plans on the table for a $47,000,000 overhaul that Discovery Place folks say is just the beginning. I will say though that Raleigh's museum is wonderful (and you sure as hell can't beat that admission fee :D )

Theatres

In references to theatres, Blumenthal is more than just one theatre it is an umbrella of several theatres in both the Blumenthal Performing Arts Center and Spirit Square. These theatres are the Belk at 2100 seats, the McGlohan at 720, the Duke Power Theatre, the Booth Playhouse, and The Studio Theatre. We also have Ovens which seat 2450.

In addition we have these planned, under construction, or recently completed theatres in Uptown.

a 2800 seat theatre

The 1200 seat Wachovia Theatre

The newly completed 1000 seat CPCC theatre

The renovation of the 1000+ seat Carolina Theatre

The completed 550 and 250 seat Imaginon Theatres

The completed Actors Theatre

The Afro-American Cultural center's performing arts space

When all of the planned work is done Charlotte's center city should have well over 12,000 live theatre seats under the ASC. Plus whatever individual groups not under the ASC build.

Visual Arts

Lastly, I think we are currently the leaders in visual art in the Carolina's. After the planned $90,000,000 dollar boost in creating a new uptown home for both the Mint Museum of Craft and Design and The mint Museum of Art, plus the 40,000,000 uptown home of the Betchler Museum of Modern Art which will permanently house works by artists like Picasso, Degas, and Warhol. Also, BofA has a stellar art collection, and we have far to many independent and ASC supported galleries to count or list. Uptown, SouthEnd, and NODA (the arts district) all do bi-weekly gallery crawls.

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I tend to agree. I think it would beneficial of the residents of BOTH areas to learn about the other and not get into pissing contests over things like who has more bus stops. Having lived in Charlotte for almost 30 years, I have noticed there is a tendency of many in this city to never look beyond the city limits of the city at things this state has to offer.

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Raleigh's downtown is so empty and boring. There's like nothing to do except the science and history museums. Plus Raleigh isn't the most accessiable either. Right after you get off I-40 and proceed on Wade Ave it's about 5 miles. In Charlotte you can just hop right off of 77 and be in uptown.
I-77 certainly is closer to uptown Charlotte than I-40 is to downtown Raleigh, but it's not quite that extreme. Downtown Raleigh is actually about 1 mile from I-40 if you get off at S. Saunders Street. Barring traffic due to construction on 1/64, that's by far the fastest way to get downtown.

Regardring the "empty and boring," comment, sounds like you've visited Fayetteville Street after hours or on a weekend. Besides the museums, you're right, it's definitely empty and definitely boring. Things don't start to pick up until about 7:00 or 8:00, and then it's mostly around Glenwood. Head there one evening and see if your tone changes at all.

I honestly won't pretend to put Raleigh in the same class as Charlotte, but on weekends when there are no sporting events, Charlotte is just as boring and empty as Raleigh. Perhaps all the condo towers being built right now will improve that, but both cities have quite a way to go.

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also Ral/Dur/CH have much more character than Charlotte.

I refuse to be labeled a "booster" so I'm not going to argue something so ridiculously subjective, but it would be nice if you would provide some examples to explain yourself. I've noticed that people who make claims like that are usually pretty unfamiliar with the places in question beyond the surface level.

I think the character argument should be Godwin's law of city vs. city threads.

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I refuse to be labeled a "booster" so I'm not going to argue something so ridiculously subjective, but it would be nice if you would provide some examples to explain yourself. I've noticed that people who make claims like that are usually pretty unfamiliar with the places in question beyond the surface level.

I think the character argument should be Godwin's law of city vs. city threads.

The one example that sticks out in my mind is all the old buildings that were torn down for new ones. I'm not saying the new buildings arent nice looking, but older buildings often have character that is hard to match. I won't say any more than that. If I went into a rant about the attitude of most of the people I know in Charlotte there would probably be quite a few people on here that would play the political role and deny, deny, deny. I don't particularly feel like being told that I am wrong when I know I'm not. Bottom line is that Charlotte is twice the size of Raleigh, and I feel like a lot of Charlotteans use that to their advantage. If Charlotte is going to compare itself to another city it should be a city of similar size, otherwise its a useless argument that is only going to spur the pissing contests that so frequently go on on this site.

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.....If Charlotte is going to compare itself to another city it should be a city of similar size, otherwise its a useless argument that is only going to spur the pissing contests that so frequently go on on this site.

Well no, pissing contests don't go on frequently on this site. The staff here, and myself especially, are frequently criticized on other sites for stopping this very thing. It's regrettable that despite this, we can't have a thread here were people can not discuss the differences between CLT and RAL without resorting to these kind of posts. It does help if posts were constructed as not to invoke a negative response from others.

Folks, the comments here are opinions of the person giving them. Please accept them as such.

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I was born and raised in Southeastern North Carolina on a tobacco farm. So, "boring and empty" are very subjective terms in my opinion. After college, I moved to Washington, DC (suburbs of Northern VA and MD) and lived there for 5 years. During the first year, I enjoyed venturing into the city and the social scene....weekend excursions to Philly, Atlantic City, NYC and Boston (of course Baltimore)...I'm definitely older than most of you young lads (also lived in LA, Denver, Indianapolis....so on and on).

After while, I realized that anywhere can get old, boring and empty. The only difference is that when someone came from out of town you had a plethora of tourist destinations to showcase (Smithsonians, monuments, etc.).

I realized that I missed not having to plan my entire day around TRAFFIC including a simple trip to a grocery store. I missed simple, decent down to earth folk .....who didn't give a damn whether I drove a Mercedes or a Yugo....so when an opportunity arose, I relocated to RDU (of course, that mindset has disolved in this area as well to a certain level). I still miss the NC beaches and eastern NC......those are REAL people. I was home for the holidays and you know you're home when the local grocery store has a blazing sign stating "HOG JOWLS for $2.99 and Collard Greens 1/2 price".

My point is that all three areas (RDU, Charlotte and the Triad) have a LOT of character and tons of history from college basketball, to tobacco, to textile, to stock car racing (let them build a NASCAR Hall of Fame where ever, but NC is the home of stock car racing and Charlotte should build a museum uptown to recognize that heritage if not awarded the NASCAR hall of fame). In eastern NC, we would block off streets and dirt roads for a good drag race that crossed racial boundaries (most events included African-Americans, European Americans and Native Americans...just being politically correct) as my parents heritage is a mixture of Black and Waccamaw Indians.

For the record, Charlotte has not destroyed a ton of historic buildings downtown (they never had ANY!..maybe a handfull that needed to be imploded). It's primarily a new city in comparison to US & NC cities (in terms of urban development). They never had a historic Elm street like Greensboro, or Fayetteville street in Raleigh or or the old crusted historic areas in downtown Durham (or Wilmington's Front street or Winston-Salem or New Berns history, etc.). Charlotte has historic areas but not a signature historic street or urban district in uptown (Yes, I saw the pictures of Old Brooklyn.....old shacks and not rowhouses that could not have withstood the test of time.....it was a disservice to destroy those homes without allocating funding for sturdy replacement living quarters).

I think what PISSES most people off is that Charlotte has a little body (becoming a big body) with a strong CAN-DO attitude (almost a Napolean complex.....maybe a Hugh McColl complex). They don't take NO for answer which is what sales & marketing is all about. So, they are developing regional muscle no matter what Atlanta, Raleigh, Richmond or other SE cities think....I for one applaud them.....do the DAMN thing!

I will miss the "OLD" Charlotte as I'm missing the "OLD" RDU.....in a short time, the terms "empty and boring" will no longer be associated with either area......again, those are subjective words as beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

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I live in DT Raleigh, but go to Charlotte all the time, including last weekend...

I think Charlotte obviously offers some things that no other NC city (or SC and VA for that matter) can offer: "big city" urban DT feel, significant DT residential component, major league sports, burgeoning transit system and TOD, large corporate HQ presense, etc. I think RDU excels in some areas that Charlotte can't match: small progressive communities (Carrboro, Ch-Hill), a bit more history, top-notch universities, biotech, IT, research firms, etc.

I love Charlotte for what it has to offer and I love the Triangle for what it has to offer. I think it's best to just appreciate what we have.

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For the record, Charlotte has not destroyed a ton of historic buildings downtown (they never had ANY!..maybe a handfull that needed to be imploded). It's primarily a new city in comparison to US & NC cities (in terms of urban development). They never had a historic Elm street like Greensboro, or Fayetteville street in Raleigh or or the old crusted historic areas in downtown Durham (or Wilmington's Front street or Winston-Salem or New Berns history, etc.). Charlotte has historic areas but not a signature historic street or urban district in uptown

Well that isn't exactly true. Trade & Tryon are about as historic as they come in this state. Most people don't realize that one of NC's Motto's "First in Freedom' which also was once on the state license plates comes from the fact that Charlotte/Mecklenburg declared independence from England in 1775. (an entire year before the USA Declaration of Independence). There was a triving town here at the time but unfortuately there are no signs of this history now. There is this plaque on Trade that marks the location where the Declaration took place.

107_0709.jpg

Later the nation's first Gold Rush took place in Charlotte when gold was discovered here in the late 1790s. The city's population swelled over night. Charlotte was one of the primary producers of gold until the discovery in California in the 1840s. The US Mint had a facility here in the city where gold coins were minted until the civil war. All of that is gone as well.

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^When there are no buildings left from the time, a street is just a street. I think the poster was referring to a lack of preservation of historic structures in center city charlotte, along those streets. Charlotte has a lot of history, but as you mentioned, there's not much left of it.

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I refuse to be labeled a "booster" so I'm not going to argue something so ridiculously subjective, but it would be nice if you would provide some examples to explain yourself. I've noticed that people who make claims like that are usually pretty unfamiliar with the places in question beyond the surface level.

I think the character argument should be Godwin's law of city vs. city threads.

I will give you one.........Music Scene. Many national acts come out of the triangle and it is written about often in the national music press. We are not talking about cover bands down at the local brew and tap. The alt-country scene was almost created in the Triangle. I wrote a post on this as if you look at this season on Austin City Limits, 3 of the acts "got their start and cut their teeth" in the Triangle. Ryan Adams has been called one of the most prolific song writers of our time and I remember when he use to come into StingRay bar at 5 points and when he washed dishes at Rathskeller. See this weeks Newsweek.

You may be saying "Whose Ryan Adams" and that is the meat behind the "just" of the comment you pointed out......

You can't buy character or build it. It comes from within. Instead of "trying to be", it comes from just "being"

That is just one reason. Give me another 3 minutes and I can come up with at least 3 more.................. :rofl:

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*stuff about Raleigh*

Your argument is bogus. "Character" isn't some finite substance. Just because one place has it doesn't mean other places necessarily lack it. This "character" thing that people like to go on about isn't a quantifiable quality that you can compare and contrast, and there is no definitive "character check list" that you can use to grade places.

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I think both areas have character, it's just a matter of what form that character takes on.

The "main street"s of Pineville, Matthews, Mint Hill, etc. *could* build character, but people in those suburbs appear to prefer a mall and/or strip mall instead. Older shopping centers like Eastland, Cotswald, Park Road, and South Park could provide a sense of place, but are always reinventing themselves to stay relevant, instead of embracing their heritage and wearing their age as a badge of honor. (This may be due to them not aging gracefully?)

"Character" seems to be compartmentalized into festivals like CenterCityFest, Stumptown, Speed Week downtown, etc. Pulled out for a week/weekend, then put back in a box in the attic till next year. As a little kid at an early 80s Stumptown, I remember a largeish crowd formed around a distance spitting contest (do they still have that?) Once the event is over, the character goes away.

UNCC and CPCC were/are mostly "commuter schools" so no college "strip" evolved around them the way Franklin Street, Hillsborough Street, and Ninth Street did in the Triangle. JC Smith and Queens College were/are too small to influence the community around them. Maybe this will change with Johnson and Wales and its graduates? Charlotte has areas like Dilworth, Southend, Noda, Central Ave., etc. but the Triangle has Five Points, Glenwood South, the college districts, and two early 20th century downtowns that are "funkier" than Charlotte's "corporate" downtown (for now).

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Sometimes I feel as if people in Raleigh assume that just because something is the official state (fill in the blank) that it is the largest and/or the best. This isn't always the case. It is great that both cities have a great symphony but comparing the two:

Charlotte: 100+ musicians and 115 performances per year

Raleigh: 65 musicians and 60 performances per year

and Raleigh doesn't get all of those performances as the Symphony must be shared with other Triangle cities.

We also have the largest Opera Company in the Carolina's.

I am very impressed with Charlotte and with all it has. Regarding Symphony Orchestras though, the NC Symphony is hands down the finest in the state!! You didn't take into account the performances that the NC Symphony does around the state for schools and such. The NC Symphony is state supported and represents the state, not just Raleigh. The NC Symphony is also the highest paid in the state. I will say that the Charlotte Symphony is the second highest paid and supposedly the second best in the state. Remember that Raleigh also has it's own Orchestra, so in a way that is it's own, while the NCSymph is the states.........it just resides in the capital city.

I will say that I think both Raleigh and Charlotte are doing great things and are both really progressing.

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I don't think anyone should get too bent out of shape about a peeing contest here. If my statements ever seem harsh then the Raleigh forumers should know that I love ALL of NC and think that we are the best state in the South. I may be more inclined to say things about Raleigh here since it is an NC forum and there for I feel the argument is "amongst the family" as it were. I likewise can take criticism easier from Raleigh forumers.

By the way, I liked your first post ChiefJoJo.

1)As far as the music scene goes. You've got us there. But what is sad is that any NC band that wants to make it anywhere has to leave the state for NY, LA, or Nashville. Where is Ryan Adams now? Charlotte does occasionally throw out a band that garners recognition as well. Right now The Talk comes to mind. With new venues continuing to open up along with the NC Music Factory's hopeful opening Charlotte should be rectifying its short coming in that regard. Raleigh radio has a real advantage over Charlotte's though. We have no real independent radio station to play good rock. Fortunately I have found the wonders of satellite radio. However, Charlotte's lack of a good indie rock station does not go with out notice here. Hopefully something will happen sometime as there appears to be a large craving for one. One thing the Queen City does have though, is Manifest Discs and Tapes, that joint can't be argued with ;) . And let's face it, when it comes to independent arts, Asheville may soon wipe us both out. I also want to say that as much as I love music, there is much more to what makes a city great then its music scene. To someone who is all about music a great local music scene is a necessity, to most people however it is simply a perk, if it is even noticed at all.

As far as historic buildings are concerned. We are both the WRONG NC areas to be having this battle. Wilmington, Asheville and Winston-Salem have scored on us both here. But I would argue, why do some people deem old buildings a necessity to "character". Las Vegas sure as hell has "character", it has an image, it has its own brand of soul. And it has no historic buildings (at least by our standards). I think a city's character is less defined by its built environment as its built environment is defined by its character. In my opinion character is most strongly felt by a city's citizens, and in most cities, one must spend considerable time there to fully appreciate that character. However, I think Durhamite, gave a strong run at Charlotte

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^^^concerning an independent rock radio station in Charlotte.....that statement is simply untrue. 95.7 "The Ride" is one of the greatest independent classic rock stations i have ever heard. The story behind the station is even cooler. It was started by a old retired guy who had always wanted his own radio station. He has very few advertisements and as he says "none of those silly radio shows......it's all about the music.......enjoy the ride". I highly recommend it to anyone who likes good music.

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It is pretty good for classic rock. The problem is rock music didn't stop in the 70's. What about all of the new bands and artist out there. There really is great music out there that is not heard in Charlotte and many Charlotteans are heading toward the internet to find what the radio here isn't giving them. There is no outlet in Charlotte for new artists of quality to be heard.

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