Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

twincity

Inside the Marriott Winston Plaza

Recommended Posts

The Twin City Quarter is just about complete. Whats left is the long overdue Benton Convetion Center that will see some upgrades. I think some exterior changes will be made to the main entrance. it should be pretty dramaitc...new landscape, signage...not too sure about the other specifics Whatever is done, it will be a big improvement from its current state.

http://www.wxii12.com/news/5090299/detail.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


This is good news. The next step will be to double the size of the convention center so that it can compete with the Koury Center and the new Raleigh convention center. There is plenty of space to expand since there is a surface parking lot across 6th Street from the center. The timing might be right for such an project given all of the success in the 6th and Trade area as well as the activity on 4th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really surprised that Starbucks commited to downtown. I think the market is actuallly kind of shaky for a new chain coffee shop. But, they didn't even put it on a street where there is foot traffic. They put it facing the Convention Center and that hardly get's used at all. Just to add my 2 sense, I think it will be a while before the convention center ever gets an expansion. But I understand, I wish it would get one too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really surprised that Starbucks commited to downtown. I think the market is actuallly kind of shaky for a new chain coffee shop. But, they didn't even put it on a street where there is foot traffic. They put it facing the Convention Center and that hardly get's used at all. Just to add my 2 sense, I think it will be a while before the convention center ever gets an expansion. But I understand, I wish it would get one too!

While you're probably right, Winston-Salem needs to return to a time when the city thought big. There are stirrings of it w/ the research park downtown and all of the residential development. The Benton Convention Center was the first big center in the state. Originally built in the late 60s, W-S used to rule the convention business in the state and was able to attract the Hyatt and the Stouffer hotels. But, over time, once Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro built competitive facilities, W-S just gave up rather than trying to compete. The city should market its strengths - Old Salem, the arts - both performance and museums (SECCA, Reynolda House, Diggs Gallery, etc.), etc. - as a drawing card for convention business. Unfortunately, W-S seems to be largely apathetic and complacent about growing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I dont know if i agree with that last statement. Just today there is an article on the city's win in the annex battle. This week's and last week's Bizjournal highlights the growth and plans for PTRP. W-S is about controlled growth. Every new shopping center, every new sub-division, every new office development is strategically placed in the city. the "Legacy Plan" which was just revised this year, explains all of this. It maps out the high growth areas, which areas should have commercial, residential, high density residential and so on. IMO we are in an in-fill phase...where there is probably just as much infill develoment as sprawl. That with the Downtown Plan presented by the DWSP, ensures that the city will rarely see out of control growth. The downtown plan is so detailed that we even know where the next high-rises will go. Its all about control.

here is a nice long read if you are interested.

http://www.ci.winston-salem.nc.us/planweb/...acy%20Plan'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I dont know if i agree with that last statement. Just today there is an article on the city's win in the annex battle. This week's and last week's Bizjournal highlights the growth and plans for PTRP. W-S is about controlled growth. Every new shopping center, every new sub-division, every new office development is strategically placed in the city. the "Legacy Plan" which was just revised this year, explains all of this. It maps out the high growth areas, which areas should have commercial, residential, high density residential and so on. IMO we are in an in-fill phase...where there is probably just as much infill develoment as sprawl. That with the Downtown Plan presented by the DWSP, ensures that the city will rarely see out of control growth. The downtown plan is so detailed that we even know where the next high-rises will go. Its all about control.

here is a nice long read if you are interested.

http://www.ci.winston-salem.nc.us/planweb/...acy%20Plan'

I guess my concern is about "controlled growth" which is likely a euphemism for let's hope we actually grow. I think it is important for the city to be able to annex residents who essentially enjoy the benefits of city services without necessarily paying for them (eg. people who commute into the city for work everyday and utilize the city's infrastructure, police, fire, sanitation, etc. but are not subject to any kind of a commuter tax). On the other hand, the fact that most of the population growth is attributable to annexation rather than people actually relocating to W-S is worrisome. By saying this, I'm not dissing W-S, in fact I'm a huge proponent of the city. I just find that the city has been in a steady decline for 2-3 decades that doesn't seem to be reversing itself (let's not forget that W-S dropped from 4th largest city to 5th in the last census and it used to be the largest city). The city has SO much potential that isn't being tapped and by plodding along with the overly conservative, controlled growth approach, I fear that the city will be left behind even more so than it already has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess my concern is about "controlled growth" which is likely a euphemism for let's hope we actually grow. I think it is important for the city to be able to annex residents who essentially enjoy the benefits of city services without necessarily paying for them (eg. people who commute into the city for work everyday and utilize the city's infrastructure, police, fire, sanitation, etc. but are not subject to any kind of a commuter tax). On the other hand, the fact that most of the population growth is attributable to annexation rather than people actually relocating to W-S is worrisome. By saying this, I'm not dissing W-S, in fact I'm a huge proponent of the city. I just find that the city has been in a steady decline for 2-3 decades that doesn't seem to be reversing itself (let's not forget that W-S dropped from 4th largest city to 5th in the last census and it used to be the largest city). The city has SO much potential that isn't being tapped and by plodding along with the overly conservative, controlled growth approach, I fear that the city will be left behind even more so than it already has.

What city ranked 4th in the last census? Unfortunatley, I will have to agree with your comments. I think Winston has great potential but I don't see much happening there anytime soon. I think Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro are going to end up being the 3 biggest cities in NC are far as population growth. I lived in Winston for 6 years and I was miserable living there. I have since moved to Greensboro and I cannot believe the difference in the 2 cities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What city ranked 4th in the last census? Unfortunatley, I will have to agree with your comments. I think Winston has great potential but I don't see much happening there anytime soon. I think Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro are going to end up being the 3 biggest cities in NC are far as population growth. I lived in Winston for 6 years and I was miserable living there. I have since moved to Greensboro and I cannot believe the difference in the 2 cities.

The city that probably ranked 4th was Durham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true. Durham moved ahead of Winston-Salem.

I have not been in downtown Winston since about late 2003. It looked as if the downtown was undergoing a revival. Has that stopped or slowed down significantly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is true. Durham moved ahead of Winston-Salem.

I have not been in downtown Winston since about late 2003. It looked as if the downtown was undergoing a revival. Has that stopped or slowed down significantly?

Durham did pass Winston-Salem in population, but not by much. It's possible that W-S will overtake Durham if the annexation goes through - I'm not sure about this, but it seems like a reasonable assumption.

Things are progressing pretty well in downtown. The Nissen Bldg apartments have opened and a few more residential projects are underway (Piedmont Leaf Lofts, Trader's Row, West End Village, etc), several restaurants, more galleries, bars, nightclubs, the Adam's Mark renovation and conversion into the Marriott and Embassy Suites are nearly done and a new building at the research park is nearing completion.

All of that said, my criticism of W-S is rooted in what I still feel is an entrenched apathy and complacency in many of the citizens of the city. There is a dedicated crew of people who have worked tirelessly for decades to try to boost the city and they deserve credit for all that they have done. But, W-S is an old money city and much of that money resides in Buena Vista where many of it's residents seem much more inclined to want to spend their time at the country club rather than heading downtown to patronize Christopher's New Global Cuisine. Sweet Potatoes, Camel City Cafe, Bistro 420, etc.

Again, all of my concern for the city is borne out of genuine affection for it. The predecessors of the Buena Vista crowd were the ones who built the city into what Forbes magazine dubbed the richest little city in America and the city of 100 millionaires back in the 1920s. They started RJR, Hanes, Wachovia, Piedmont Airlines, Krispy Kreme, etc and the city boomed. They brought Wake Forest to W-S. They put their money behind the NC School of the Arts and got it started. Then their children and grandchildren seemingly just slowly let the legacy they had been given dissipate.

So, the potential of the city is obviously there and the entrepreneurial spirit exists, they've just been latent and dormant and need to be kicked into gear. It seems like the moment for the city to emerge out of its slumber is now. North Carolina is one of the fastest growing states and one of the hottest markets right now, so it would just be a matter of recognizing what it would take to ciphon off some of those newcomers. If that potential could be harnessed by the right kind of leadership whether it's a Hugh McColl type or a young, energetic mayor, I don't see any reason why W-S couldn't begin to see a boom like Charlotte and Raleigh (albeit on a smaller scale since it has a lot of catching up to do).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are a lot of factors that alter W-S's population IMO. not trying to make excuses, but W-S has been described as being very unique out the big 5....we're almost completely landlocked. a good portion of the sprawling growth is gobbled up by the burbs. thats why when new residential is built in the county, its a 20%chance that it will a W-S address. in Guilford, there really is no competition for Greensboro and High Point. In Wake, there is little competion for Raleigh and Cary. Durham County is Durham and damn near all of Mecklenburg(sp) is Charlotte. Its a city of 200,000 with 4 other corporated, healthy towns... Kernersville, Clemmons, Lewisville and Walkertown... all in little Forsyth county.

a lot of what you are saying is true intcvplaga, but i dont feel that Winston has been on a steady decline. i think the city is better off than it has ever been. yes we have lost some corporations, but we have gained some also, just like Charlotte and Raleigh and just about every other city. We have never seen a population decrease. Forsyth has been the fastest growing county in the Triad for the past 2 years, the city's just gained another fortune 500, we have a top 10 bank, PTRP,the fastest growing university in the state, and 2 expanding hospitals, both with national recognition and everyone knows about Dell. all of these factors occured after Wachovia, Piedmont Airlines and other HQ's left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there are a lot of factors that alter W-S's population IMO. not trying to make excuses, but W-S haas been described as being very unique out the big 5....we're almost completely landlocked. a good portion of the sprawling growth is gobbled up by the burbs. thats why when new residential is built in the county, its a 20%chance that it will a W-S address. in Guilford, there really is no competition for Greensboro and High Point. In Wake, there is ittle competion for Raleigh and Cary. Durham County is Durham and damn near all of Mecklenburg(sp) is Charlotte. Its a city of 200,000 with 4 other corporated, healthy towns... Kernersville, Clemmons, Lewisville and Walkertown... all in little Forsyth county.

a lot of what you are saying is true intcvplaga, but i dont feel that Winston has been on a steady decline. i think the city is better off than it has ever been. yes we have lost some corporations, but we have gained some also, just like Charlotte and Raleigh and just about every other city. We have never seen a population decrease. Forsyth has been the fastest growing county for the past 2 years, the city's just gained another fortune 500, we have a top 10 bank, PTRP,the fastest growing university in the state, and 2 expanding hospitals, both with national recognition and everyone knows about Dell. all of these factors occured after Wachovia, Piedmont Airlines and other HQ's left.

Don't mean to be a stickler, but Rural Hall, Old Town, Pfafftown, and Tobaccoville are making it alot harder for us to grow north. Basically our only options are the southern portion of Forsyth and there is one other. If i'm correct Clemmons is only a village and can be annexed by a "bigger fish." I remember hearing somewhere that that is possible to do. If that were to happen we could gain another 8,000 residents possibly. Anyway, south Forsyth County is booming! The new Wal-Mart, a 2 year old shopping center with a Lowes Food, and various townhome and pad home developments. North Davidson is somewhat on the verge of a growth boom and I can see in the future Winston annexing a small portion of Davidson County. That's a possiblility guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why I always think it's the county population (and beyond in some circumstances) that really matters not the population inside the corporate boundaries because that is subject to numerous variables. So, Forsyth County is more populous than Durham County.

Forsyth - July 1, 2004 = 320,919

Durham - July 1, 2004 = 239,733

That's a significant difference, and indicates such a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter whether Clemmons is a city, town or village - the citizens of the municipality would have to vote to be taken over by W-S. It doesn't happen often, but a good example I'm aware of is when Battleboro was taken over by Rocky Mount. It became just another part of Rocky Mount with no special status.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was reading the Business Journal and came across an interesting find. Apparently the Embassy Suites downtown has gone upscale even more by offering express check in to guests with the touch of an icon on a computer screen. neat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.