Favorite Old Photographs

[ZachariahDaMan]

Yeah, I love how the house looks.

[Wordsmith]

That's a huge chimney though, the kind with flutes leading to other parts of the house no doubt. I'm sure it didn't have radiators at that point either since this was taken during the twenties. Ah, the glories of early central heating. Boilers, etc. But they'd probably explode nowadays if they weren't taken care of.

WS

[Allan]

Old steam boilers can explode, but it is not a very common occurance. If it was, we'd be seeing houses exploding left and right, since it seems like about half of the houses in the city limits have steam heat. The house we're looking at moving to has a massive steam heating system (it has to heat all 3 floors - 5200sf of space).

The house in the photo may have had steam heat, but it is not likely, since I doubt municipal water lines had extended that far out. The big stone thing is not a chimney though, since it does have windows on the ground floor. The chimney for the fireplace can be seen at the back of the house. It is a very unique house...it's not often that you seen stone used so liberally in residential construction. The house may still be standing...often times they just built newer houses around existing ones, especially if they were located on main roads.

[GRDadof3]

That's a great old picture of that house Wordsmith! Does it happen to say what road that is? It'd be interesting if it is now a major thoroughfare.

[Wordsmith]

I was actually thinking of gas boilers which I've read are pretty volatile if left in for a very long time. (My example would be the Kennedy family Palm Beach residence which fell into pretty great disrepair. Only one of the four boilers remained intact and it was subject to explode at anytime before being replaced.) Ah, houses with no air conditioning I also favor. I'm so old fashioned.

And no I don't recall seeing any kind of description of the road. I only know they're walking to school in an area outside of the city limits.

WS

[Allan]

These days pretty much all boilers are gas powered. In the early days, they were powered by coal. Many houses still have a coal chute left over from that era. Over the years, many were converted to oil, and then later gas. Most people here in Michigan have gas boilers, furnaces, & water heaters. They can be dangerous, why is why every so often you hear of a house exploding. All it takes is one spark, and everything you own could be gone.

I don't particularly care for central air either...too drafty. I don't like cold air blowing on me in the summer, and the air in the winter is way too dry.

As far as the road that house is on...I'm going to take a guess and say 7 Mile. I could be way off, but you never know.

Btw, I noticed that in the last photo they have Wheat Crispies on the table. I guess they fell out of favor, since all I've ever seen are Rice Crispies.

[Wordsmith]

Yes, I recall seeing a photograph from the sixties that featured Wheat Krispies too (it's not a Detroit photo so I wouldn't post it here.)

I was wondering about what it would take for a house to explode. The house we live in is pretty old and a lot of the original fixtures were in it when we moved in but I don't recall ever seeing a boiler here. I think I've found the coal chute, but strangely enough no milk chute... What does a boiler look like, I want to know if I should be worried.

WS

[Allan]

The chances of having a house explode are minimal. It usually happens when things aren't working right (i.e. never properly installed.

A boiler...now that depends on how old it is. The basic form of an older boiler would be either a large cylinder or a huge metal box. They were almost always covered in asbestos, which may or may not have been removed. There would be pipes coming off of it...probably cast iron and 2-3 inches in diameter. There would also be a large exhaust pipe leading from the unit either to a chimney or through an outside wall directly through the outside.

A newer boiler is much smaller. It takes the general form of a box, probably about 20 inches tall, 15 inches wide, and 24 inches deep. There would most likely be copper pipes leading from it to the different radiators throughout the house. There would also be the large diameter exhaust pipe venting to either the exterior or a chimney.

I'm assuming that your house has radiators...if it does, then there is definately a boiler down in the basement. My house is one of the newest houses (1964) I've seen that still has radiators, albeit in a bit different form.

If there are no radiators, then you've probably got an old gravity furnace in the basement. They work with basic laws of physics...basically that hot air rises and cold air sinks. There are no fans or blowers...the heat just rises through the ducts. They are far from efficient, but they heat the house up very well. My great grandmother's house has a gravity furnace that she had installed in the 1950s, replacing the original gravity furnace that existed when she bought the house from the previous owners in 1932. Actually, when she bought the house there was only two vents on the first floor to heat the entire house! I suppose that's just what $3000 bought you back then. It was not until my grandmother was about five that they ran a single duct up to the hallway on the second floor. The furnace was originally an oil furnace that has been converted to natural gas at some point.

*Note the knob and tube wiring. The house is far from meeting code. In fact, the kitchen floor is supported by 2x4's that were set on large rocks and then tacked into place with a few nails! The place has stood for 80 years though, so it must not be too bad.

As for the coal chute...over the years those were either welded shut or boarded up.

Chances are your house either has a utility porch off the back, or at least it did at one point. The milkman would've delivered milk through a small door off of the porch. I remember that my other great grandmother's house still had the door. The house's icebox was typically also located on the utility porch. The traces of these things have probably been removed or covered up in your house...after all, the kitchen is typically the most remodeled room in the house. The kitchen would've likely been mostly freestanding cupboards. Any built-ins would've been crafted on site and built in place. Back in those days, if you wanted to put a window in, you made the window. That's challenging enough, but then you realie that they did it all by hand! Both my great-great-great grandfather and my great-great grandfather were carpenters who built houses. I've since inherited all of their tools...they had tools for everything. And unlike the crappy tools you buy in the stores today, these tools are quality.

Enough rambling...I've taken this thread so off-topic it's not even funny.

[Wordsmith]

Well thank you for this history lesson and we have a gravity furnace which is pretty much inefficient for heating the second floor. But the first floor can feel pretty toasty when coming down after a long chilled night. To this day (and we've only lived in this house for about seven or eight years) I still can't sleep with the heat on me anymore.

And I'm assured the coal chute has been covered up along with the milk chute now. We do have a wooden back porch (that, along with the front porch are pretty much losing their bearings.) We still have what looks like it should have been a footed tub but someone installed it directly into the floor (if you can picture this it is exactly as silly as it sounds.) The shelves and a lot of the original lighting fixtures have been replaced. The kitchen had new cabinets installed and a new door was put on the back and front porches but we need a new back screen door.

I always like to chuckle to myself that our house was built as a practical joke, it's rather dysfunctional compared to other older houses I've been in. For example the back porch has a balcony above it that leads directly to bathroom. It's a pretty ugly house in my opinion and has these huge older siding on it along with that wooden porch that's lousing up more everyday. We have ancient wiring in our basement but it's since been rewired, someone just left the old stuff up there so I can look at it if I want to. The attic door is in my bedroom for some reason and I honestly hate it as it doesn't have a real doorknob and is no longer attached to the hinges. You just kind of fit it into the space. But since there were wasps up there and I'm a tad bit phobic I put a bunch of stuff in front of it so now no one can get up there.

When we moved in rods were missing from most of the closets, and at least three doorknobs that I can think of are broken including the one on my bedroom door that have never been fixed. You can still work some of the original doors with this one skeleton key that we use to open the balcony door in the bathroom. I'm pretty sure that most of the original toilet is still there expect for some obvious upgrades but my grandfather took out the first sink which was one of those numbers with the one faucet for hot and the other for cold (this was years before I would've cared.) The spice cabinet in the kitchen and the medicine cabinet are both built right into the wall. And we have these lovely leaded glass windows in the living room and dining room. Oh, and I pretty much hate our basement and all the anxieties it causes me.

Despite some nice things I would love to move into another house somewhere in the city. But I would certainly love to see the icebox set out on the backporch circa 1920 or so. Bring on the Ice Man. And the Milkman while you're at it.

WS

[Wordsmith]

Gratiot in early '30s before street widening:

WPA setup during Great Depression, Gratiot between six and seven miles:

Gratiot at Library, 1940s:

Day after fire at original Gratiot Central Market, 1960s:

WS

[MrCoffee]

LN

If those kids were to come back to Detroit and visit today, I wonder what they would think about their city now. I have no doubt that they're as disgusted with what happened to Detroit, as I am with what happened to Flint. As someone else on this forum mentioned, people didn't have to move away from their city. They didn't have to close their businesses. They didn't have to abandon their history. But, they did and there isn't a whole lot any of us can do about it but try to preserve what's left. Why, for Pete's sake, did they tear out the interurban rail system and replace it with cars? Now, I have to make a $2,000.00 investment (minimum!) if I am to visit relatives on a regular basis!

Its photos like these that make me think about where we're headed, and what we should do to at least keep some of character in Detroit's infrastructure that remains. Yes, by all means build up to the curb when putting up a new building! As for the wining and bickering between Detroit and the suburbs, it must end, and some thought needs to go into the rebuilding process if Southeastern Michigan is to once again become a world-class destination. I mean jeeze, I look at some maps and see Minneapolis and Chicago, but not Detroit! I bet a lot of the adults in those photos are rolling over in their graves.

MrCoffee

[RustTown]

They probably would be disgusted, but they should blame their parents as much as they blame anyone that came after them.

[Wordsmith]

Given the time frame in which these photographs were taken (twenties through forties) I'd actually say that these people (the children anyway) are the ones who headed for the hills. So yes, my personal feelings lie with them actually.

WS

[rbdetsport]

Thankyou everyone for the awesome photos of Detroit in its fomer glory. Looking at these make my heart beat faster. It makes me think, can our city be like one day again? It makes me think that if this country falls apart for a little while, that more people will move back to the city and a mass transit system will be built. Sometimes you can pull some good stuff out of the hard times. The Great Depression did kill off some amazing plans for Detroit.

[Jin Kim]

The Great Depression did kill off some amazing plans for Detroit.

I'm curious. What kind of plans were in place before the Great Depression? I'd think there might be some lessons that we can learn from them, no?

Is there somewhere I can go to learn about them?

[Allan]

The Tuller Hotel was scheduled to be torn down & replaced by the Biltmore Hotel, a taller, more lavish art deco building. They went so far as to print up promotional material, but plans ground to a halt when the depression hit.

The Book Brothers cancelled their plans for an 85 story tower just south of the Book Building. The building was announced in 1926, but plans were put on hold for 5 years (I'm not sure why - I'll check the next time I go to the DPL). Five years came and went...with the onset of the Depression they were not in a position to build the building.

There was also the 60 story Fisher Building in New Center. The Fisher Building as it exists today is only 1/3 of the original plans for the building. There was to be an identical tower on the corner of 3rd & Grand Blvd., and a 60 story tower in the middle.

Then there is the subway system. It is unclear exactly what the deal is with this, but evidence suggests that the state has plans for a subway system that was started in the 1920s but was never completed. If I remember correctly, construction started in 1927, but stopped in 1930. By the time the depression was over, they decided to drop the project all together.

[Wordsmith]

So with the right, forward thinking young fellows someone could conceivably go back down there and pick up where they left off subway-wise?

WS

[RustTown]

The subway project couldn't happen again, concieveably. It's one of the most far-fetched ideas. I'd expect the Book Tower to be torn down for it's 85-story cousin before I'd expect a subway running beneath Detroit. Let's not forget some parts of the city are built above salt mines, and that it would take tearing up entire sections of a city to get this done. Very few cities have subways.

[Allan]

The salt mines are under southwest Detroit & downriver. The mines are between 1200 & 1400 feet below the ground. It has caused problems with cracking people's foundations and such...in fact, a few people claim that you can feel the ground vibrate when they blast in the mine underground. Any subway line would simply have to avoid the mines...which would not really be that difficult to do.

The biggest obstacle to a subway system would be finding the funding. At this point, a subway system is not economically feasible. There is no need to pay to tunnel underground when you can put trains on the surface of the earth.

[Wordsmith]

Except for the lovable sweetness of traveling under and overground...

So wait, why did the build them in the first place? I understand about New York and the mess of traffic above ground especially around the Victorian age when it was started. And London as well, especially during the Blitz as it offered shelter against the Luftwaffe. But what about Chicago, etc.? No bombs, presumably less congestion... But I suppose I could be very wrong about the traffic flow.

WS

[Allan]

Subways are used where high volumes of traffic need to be moved through areas where space is an issue. That's why the subways come above ground outside of the downtown areas of cities...space is not such a big deal in those areas.

[Wordsmith]

Well, everyone knows the roads in the city are certainly wide enough, so I'll agree that we don't need a subway per se. But I wonder when I see Woodward about where indeed they would put light rail and still preserve the traffic flow, especially at turns. My only answer is an elevated train.

WS

[rbdetsport]

Yea and the HUB would be under Campus Martius, come above ground just past Compuware, have a main station where it would cross the people mover and bring it all the way up to new center. Then turn it into light rail all the way up to Pontiac. A Commuter Rail would go from Pontiac to Flint. A light rail line going down M-59 from Pontiac to Mt.Clemens. A Commuter Rail from Mt.Clemens to Port Huron. A line going from Downtown to Metro Airport, then a commuter rail from Metro to Ann Arbor. A line going out to Southfield from New Center, then a Commuter Rail from Southfield to Lansing.

[detroitfan]

One my favorite pics on the net, Washington Blvd at Michigan in Oct 1976 with then new historic trolley notice that Washington is still a true boulevard. The best part though is the view of an open Book-Caddy

[rbdetsport]

I have seen this photo before and I love it. Seeing the, at that time, Detroit-Cadillac open and most of the buildings occupied and the old boulevard median with the transportation. Just awesome! When did the trolleys stop their operations?