Southside Developments

[Spartan]

The Southside of Spartanburg has been a major area of focus lately. The City is trying very hard to improve the area, which is largely blighted.

So far the city has focused on the S Church corridor. This article talks about the effort to bring a grocery store back to the area. Some attempts have failed becaues many stores see the area as not prosperous.

"Now, the south-side representative sees not only a new grocery store on South Church Street, but a shopping plaza that includes a grocer, pharmacy, department store,"

There is also some Hope VI money that is being used to tear down some of the projects and put housing back in to the area that is up to date but still geared for low-income families.

I am hoping that the parks will be restored as part of this effort.

*This thread is for any topic related to the Southside.

[GSP Tiger]

Regarding the supermarket, the article says it will not be Bi-Lo. Recent discussions with an out-of-state based chain has me thinking Ingle's or Publix. I do not recall any Publix locations in low income areas. Ingle's I think may be going in.

[Spartan]

I was thinking Food Lion myslef. I wonder if it could be an Aldi?

[GSP Tiger]

I have not had many shopping experiences with Food Lion. Their stores are okay, While upstate South Carolina may not be a core market, I would not mind them coming to Spartanburg.

I doubt the south side would want a stock-up store, just your ordinary supermarket that has what groceries, service and convenience you need.

[Spartan]

Food Lion's have a wide variety. The one in Columbia-Five Points is rahter nice, with a variety of products, but I have been in others that are cheaply built, so it seems that are willing to build in a variety of markets. Not that ths Southside doesn't deserve something good, but I don't think they should expect a Publix-level grocer.

[tdreamweaver]

I've gone to a few meetings regarding the grocery store on the southside. It is my understanding that none of the first tier (Bi-LO, ingles, publix) grocery stores will come to the location. They apparently have all sorts of formulas they apply to a space regarding parking, etc. and this space is too small to meet their needs. At one meeting grocery store names came up that might go in--I didn't really know any of them...they reminded me of those small ones they have at the beach that you've never heard of...anyway, last I heard there was a deal on the table with a store out of N.C...but that store was recently bought out and the new buyers won't accept the deal that was on the table. I'm guessing something will be out in the paper in a couple of weeks...

[GSP Tiger]

I've gone to a few meetings regarding the grocery store on the southside. It is my understanding that none of the first tier (Bi-LO, ingles, publix) grocery stores will come to the location. They apparently have all sorts of formulas they apply to a space regarding parking, etc. and this space is too small to meet their needs.

Actually, Bi-Lo, Ingle's and Publix are the stores city council have been seeking to come into the area. Months ago, Bi-Lo and Publix have declined. Ingle's has been looking at the area, possibly more towards Roebuck, for a new store. A connection has told me Ingle's or Publix is finalizing a deal.

The site may be too small for a large shopping center, but it is large enough for a freestanding supermarket. I have seen some supermarkets in Florida that are two to three levels high and had an adjacent multi-deck parking structure.

At one meeting grocery store names came up that might go in--I didn't really know any of them...they reminded me of those small ones they have at the beach that you've never heard of...anyway, last I heard there was a deal on the table with a store out of N.C...but that store was recently bought out and the new buyers won't accept the deal that was on the table.

Food Lion, based out of North Carolina, was acquired by Delhaize, a Dannish company, a few years ago. If they were eyeing the site, they may have decided not to move into a non-core market. They have quite a number of stores located along North Carolina and South Carolina's coasts.

[GSP Tiger]

Food Lion is coming to Spartanburg as the chain announces plans to enter the upstate region. I wonder if this is the grocer City Council would like to bring in.

I think Food Lion is a great alternative to Bi-Lo, Ingle's, and Publix, those that already have a presence in the upstate.

[hub-city]

Could be what the city wanted but the Food Lion's announced location at 221/295 is more out toward Roebuck rather than downtown. i would think that the city is still looking for something closer to the downtown.

[DigitalSky]

I think Food Lion is a great alternative to Bi-Lo, Ingle's, and Publix, those that already have a presence in the upstate.

Absolutely in the sense of it taking the discount grocery position that Winn-Dixie left, as i mentioned in the other thread.

[Spartan]

According to this article in the HJ, the latest potential anchor sor the Southside grocery stores is a St Louis-based chain called 'Save-a-lot' which already operates a stoar in Inman.

http://www.goupstate.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../511210319/1062

[Spartan]

The City just approved a deal for the Southside grocery store and stopping center. Once again Linda Dogan was the only one in opposition.

[tdreamweaver]

I actually attended Monday nights City Council meeting and understood the points Linda Dogan was trying to make. The SHJ makes it out to seem like she's just being difficult and that is the impression that I got from the article after the first reading. So I went to the 2nd reading.

She made a few good points.

She thinks the area deserves a top notch grocer--like a Bilo or Ingles. I'm not sure if she doesn't realize they just aren't interested. I too would love to see one of those there as well but we can't change the size of the space.

She felt rushed to make the decision. At Monday night's meeting, for example, the City staff presented a problem with the soil that had been found since the first reading had occured that could cost the City up to $100k (I think I understood that right) to remedy the problem. She said the soil should have already been tested. The City staff agreed. It was an oversight that it had not been tested. I agree that all the i's need to be dotted and t's crossed before we move forward--especially since taxpayer dollars are being used.

She feels whatever goes there will not make it. I can't say I disagree with her there. A couple of years ago, at a meeting about the grocery store, a SHJ reporter asked me my feelings on the grocery store. I told him...I have one question--what has the City and/or developers done to ensure the same thing won't happen to the new store that happened to the other ones? The other ones closed for reasons. Have these issues been discussed?

If we expect people driving through town to stop and use the store...I think addressing these issues are imperative.

I don't always agree with Dogan but I think she raised some good points that no one else was asking. At times I feel like the Southside is simply being thrown a bone...I hate to say that, but I'm just being honest about how I feel. This community needs a grocery store, but I think for it to survive it is going to have to be one that other residents will be willing to frequent from time to time.

ALSO, the budget for this thing was presented...then I got real confused because it's just not my area of expertise. :-) But, it left me more questions.

To make a long story short (oops, a little late for that) I left feeling more unsure about it than I did when I went in or at least with more unanswered questions. But, I did want to say that I felt Dogan's questions and doubts deserve to be heard. She said herself she wants something in that space for the community more than anyone...she just wants it to be the right thing. Me too. :-)

[Spartan]

It is my understanding that the stretch of Church St that they are looking at doesn't have any parcels large enough for a larger grocery store. Maybe thats not the case.

Also, I agree that this probably won't last. People won't shop there if its not a decent store, regardless of how it looks. I would think that people going out S Church are going to go to the new Food Lion in Roebuck if anything.

Honestly part of the problem is that the community on the Southside needs a boost up. It has respectable roots, but the fact is that crime and poverty are still an issue in this community... remeber the hostage situation a few years ago? This type of thing doesn't bode well for S Church. Its going to take more than just this grocery store to make ReGenesis work. It will take some economic diversification (more money in the community = better stores) and some effort from the community itself to change its image within the eyes of Spartanburg. Its not an easy task.

[Spartan]

I realize that for most of you out there, low income housing isn't a very exciting topic. But I hope that if you are reading this thread, you are at least somewhat interested or concerned about the poverty in Spartanburg, specificcally the Southside and ReGenesis.

This article. in the HJ highlights how the new Collins Park neighborhood on Bomar Ave, that is replacing the Phyllis Goins housing project, is already helping out the community by using local labor and local contractors.

The article reports that the removal of the old project has already reduced crime in the area.

Collins Park is an imporant step for the Southside. The old concept of low-income housing was a dismal failure. The NEW method includes a mixing of incomes and utilizing the private market to help the neighborhood stay a vibrant neighborhood (and not the crime infested ghettos we are used to). I've seen some of the newer style affordable housing neighborhoods in Greenville and other places, and I can tell you that they are quite attractive.

[Spartan]

The proposed road in Arkwright has been scrapped. Money was not allocated from various government sources- supposedly because of projects already under way. So instead they are going to build a golf course over the landfill in that area and make a few minor road connections.

I'm not sure what else you can do with a landfill, but I think its kind of crappy that someone is goign to build a golf course that most of the people who live in that area won't be able to use or afford anyway. If nothing else it will cause this area to gentrify, and IMO there are other places that would be better suited for gentrification. But like I said, there really isn't much you can do with an old landfill.

Article

Here is a map of the area. The propsed road would have connected Southport Rd (SC925) with Crescent Ave area (approximately) and it would have followed near that creek connecting those neighborhoods along the way. This road would have been a great thing for the Southside.

[goodbye]

One reuse I know can work for a landfill is a soccer complex. I don't know if such a plan could work for this place, but it seems to have been successful elsewhere.

[Spartan]

I dont think the topography would ba favorable. They ahve to cap the landfill, so any kind of park would work I guess.

[Spartan]

Collins Park is now officially open. This developmenton the Southside replaced some old crappy projects, and hopefully represent a new era for the Southside. It adopts the new idea behind government housing- it can still look like a decent place to live. It doesn't HAVE to look like the government built it.

Link

[tdreamweaver]

I agree Spartan...government housing doesn't have to look so...well, governmental.

Wanted to share a speech by Charleston Mayor Joe Riley I ran across the other day. It's old, but I really, really, really enjoyed and don't think I would have understood the importance of what he had to say were it not for what I've learned from reading these forums.

http://www.tulsaarchitecture.com/Next100Riley.htm

There is also another site I really enjoy that some of you may like: http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/

[Spartan]

It may suprise you to know that this particular speech may be old, but its still be used. I watched this very presentation not long ago (within the past couple of years) - albiet somewhat updated.

Mayor Riley is truely a mayor that "gets it." He says "no" when people want to take the easy way out, he finds a solution that works, and he makes it happen. Its no wonder he's the longest serving mayor in the US. He has a vision, and he's got a good way of making other people understand that vision. It all boils down to preserving our past while looking toward the future. There is no building you can't fix and there's no reason to make a new one look like crap because we're all going to have to live with it for a long time. And it would seem that you can do it without inflating the costs too much.

If Spartanburg had a mayor like that, it would be a completely different city.

[PeePaw00]

I realize that for most of you out there, low income housing isn't a very exciting topic. But I hope that if you are reading this thread, you are at least somewhat interested or concerned about the poverty in Spartanburg, specificcally the Southside and ReGenesis.

This article. in the HJ highlights how the new Collins Park neighborhood on Bomar Ave, that is replacing the Phyllis Goins housing project, is already helping out the community by using local labor and local contractors.

The article reports that the removal of the old project has already reduced crime in the area.

Collins Park is an imporant step for the Southside. The old concept of low-income housing was a dismal failure. The NEW method includes a mixing of incomes and utilizing the private market to help the neighborhood stay a vibrant neighborhood (and not the crime infested ghettos we are used to). I've seen some of the newer style affordable housing neighborhoods in Greenville and other places, and I can tell you that they are quite attractive.

[Spartan]

I'm not really sure what you're arguement is. Are you saying the model that was used before was a good thing? The basic idea has been to cram poverty in one place and ignore it. The SHA hasn't dnoe much to fix that problem until recently with ReGenesis and HopeVI. The fact that crime has decreased in the area as a result of tearing down those apartments is evidence that SOMETHING wasnt working, dont you think?

[PeePaw00]

I'm not really sure what you're arguement is. Are you saying the model that was used before was a good thing? The basic idea has been to cram poverty in one place and ignore it. The SHA hasn't dnoe much to fix that problem until recently with ReGenesis and HopeVI. The fact that crime has decreased in the area as a result of tearing down those apartments is evidence that SOMETHING wasnt working, dont you think?

[Spartan]

I don't think you're really sure what my argument is.