This building boom seems insanely large

[beerbeer]

Let's start the actual construction.

Trumbull on the Park, 100 units to open on November 1st.

Hartford 21, 260 units next year.

Metropolitan, 50 units next year.

Sage Allen, 120+ units next year.

Financing in place buildings

The 101 Pearl Street, 40 units.

Colt Building, 120+ units

410 Asylum renovation, ??? units

Now the "proposed" buildings

Front Street, 1 or 2 towers" 200+ units.

Park Street Gateway, 2 towers, 100+ units

Unnamed north of 84 building, 2 towers, ??? units.

YMCA site, 18 story tower, 300 units

Capewell condos, 90 units

And construction is schedule to begin on Friday on the Science Center, no units.

Am I missing anything? We are talking, conservatively speaking, of 1,500 apartments and condos coming on-line. The city can probably asborb that over a five year period. But good grief, do you believe that all of these proposals will come to fruition?

[HartfordTycoon]

^^ I would like to hope so. I think that success will breed more success. If after the first phase is built and the market absorbs them easily and there is still demand after that, I think there is a very good chance that most if not all of the projects get built and more than likely some that have not even been anounced yet. Let's toast to Hartford's future!!!!

[Germaine]

Let's start the actual construction.

Trumbull on the Park, 100 units to open on November 1st.

Hartford 21, 260 units next year.

Metropolitan, 50 units next year.

Sage Allen, 120+ units next year.

Financing in place buildings

The 101 Pearl Street, 40 units.

Colt Building, 120+ units

410 Asylum renovation, ??? units

Now the "proposed" buildings

Front Street, 1 or 2 towers" 200+ units.

Park Street Gateway, 2 towers, 100+ units

Unnamed north of 84 building, 2 towers, ??? units.

YMCA site, 18 story tower, 300 units

Capewell condos, 90 units

And construction is schedule to begin on Friday on the Science Center, no units.

Am I missing anything? We are talking, conservatively speaking, of 1,500 apartments and condos coming on-line. The city can probably asborb that over a five year period. But good grief, do you believe that all of these proposals will come to fruition?

Maybe not ALL but eventually, I can certainly see it. It's hard to compare, but have you seen what's happening in downtown Charlotte? Two buildings alone are between 50 - and 60-stories with many others under construction, selling, or planned in the 15 - 40-story range. I can't believe that if there's that much demand for urban living almost everywhere else in America but not Hartford!

[MadVlad]

Well, I think that's the point, there IS demand in Hartford. And thank God for that....

[virgo20]

Maybe not ALL but eventually, I can certainly see it. It's hard to compare, but have you seen what's happening in downtown Charlotte? Two buildings alone are between 50 - and 60-stories with many others under construction, selling, or planned in the 15 - 40-story range. I can't believe that if there's that much demand for urban living almost everywhere else in America but not Hartford!

There is no way to ever compare the boom in Charlotte or any other southern city to Hartford or any N.E. city for that matter.Have you read the article from your own newspaper?

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commen...ines-commentary

Charlotte has lower taxes, lower cost-of-living expenses, and is developing mass trasportation. They are moving forward with plans for the next century despite what some naysayers (NIMBY's) are saying. They are realizing that economic development centers on these fronts. And here in N.E., are cities' decisions revolve around the same NIMBY"s that think JFK is still president and that N.E is still the business hub of the late 50's. They don't realize that our college grads are flocking there in record numbers....We are losing population!! How many people have left Hartford in the last 20 years? 50K? We can't even come together collectively as a region to discuss what would benefit us with incredible density, open spaces, and 4 seasons.Mitt Romney? Do you really think that anybody gives a flying f&^k about winter? They would rather deal with better living conditions, quality of life, and better pay!!! And Charlotte has it..not Hartford..not Providence and certainly not Boston.. Not to mention the natual disasters that affect a lot of other areas in the country!! I'd rather put a hat and jacket on for 3 months than lose my entire life to a hurricane. We have all the infastructure in place to create mass transit, regional wi-fi, and lower taxes. And yet we are too busy trying to attract business, tourism, and $$ across state lines. There is not 1 city in all of N.E. that is doing well!!! We may be improving slightly, but we are being held back from the same simple-mindedness that we complain of from our neighbors. We are too busy gloating about our own hometown that we forget that all of N.E is half the size of Texas. We don't have enough clout to prosper as city-states. We're on a losing battle and we won't come out on top if we can't work together. How many of you actually live in Hartford proper? Luca? Tycoon? How many of you can actually relate to the issues that affect Hartford? Do you really think that the only thing Charlotte has going on is big buildings? Hartford is separated from every rich suburb that shares its borders. They will ALWAYS absorb every social service ,welfare, and government agency that comes along as long as the communities across Connecticut shun their own capital city. And yet the pompass, ignorant , misguided people that contribute to this Hartford forum continually brag about their ever-growing skyline.....and do not elaborate on the rotten cores that surround it..of course, no one would ever be able to truly elaborate because all but 2 live outside the city...It really is a shame! With all the misguided energy that many of us possess in the Prov. and Htfd. forums, maybe we should focus all of our energies on things to better ourselves as a region and to influence members of government on key issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there political leaders that visit this forum? Tycoon?I must admit I'm slightly partial to my own hometown and collecctively to New England as a whole, even Hartford. I am just not sure if the jobs and climate will be right for me in the future if we continue on not making some productive cohesive efforts as a region. I might have to move to Florida . ( I'm in real estate/financing) If you don't think it can't happen, look at Buffalo, NY. Explain to me how prices have deteriorated 33% in 10 years. People go where jobs are.They go where quality of life supersedes all. Buffalo has a a real nice skyline and is 3x the size of Hartford. It doesn't take away the fact that is shunned from N.Y. state and everyone is leaving town. Why would anyone move to Providence or Hartford or Boston from out of the area? Or even from nearby suburbs? Everyone dreams and I have all the right dreams for Providence and the rest of N.E,but if I can make more $$ with half the expenses and a better quality of life in Charlotte or Atlanta or wherever,what the f%$k is stopping me and half our generation from going forward??? With that said ...I hope that all of the educated intelligent people that contribute to these forums can really say or do something productive that has meaning rather than arguing how great all of our respective cities are...Get a grip! It almost reminds me of an online hook-up when the person tells you how hot they are w/o pics and then you meet Godzilla!!!!!!!!!!

[TheseGoTo11]

Airline industry is also bulllish on Hartford. Bradley just got direct service to LAX and Salt Lake City, and it's running about 20% ahead of PVD in enplanements.

[HartfordTycoon]

How many of you actually live in Hartford proper? Luca? Tycoon? How many of you can actually relate to the issues that affect Hartford?

I am from the North End born and raised and have lived here for over 20 years. I am all too familiar with the negative social issues facing Hartford. I went through the Hartford Public School System from K - 12, graduated from Morehouse College in Atlanta, and came home. Now I am an Underwriter at Chubb Insurance Company and sit on the Board of Directors of a comunity organization in the North End. I am very active in the community and do believe in the city and the region. If I didn't I would not be living here.

But I actually have alot of fun in Hartford, when I feel like it. I live in the North End and 98% of the time there is nothing crazy going on. When people come to Hartford they have a good time, even the subarban types from my job. I think alot of the problem is we tend to dwell on negatives up here as opposed to in development-crazy areas like the sun-belt, where the bad news never phases them. They only pay attention the what new building there is or mall and they celebrate, up here they protest. Just some thoughts......

[TaylorG4444]

Airline industry is also bulllish on Hartford. Bradley just got direct service to LAX and Salt Lake City, and it's running about 20% ahead of PVD in enplanements.

Hartford does NOT have direct service to Salt Lake City. I just checked to see if anything had changed at the airport's website. Hartford is more likely to get direct service to SFO or DEN before Salt Lake City. It would be nice to had it to the direct route list though.

[TheseGoTo11]

Hartford does NOT have direct service to Salt Lake City. I just checked to see if anything had changed at the airport's website. Hartford is more likely to get direct service to SFO or DEN before Salt Lake City. It would be nice to had it to the direct route list though.

SLC is a Delta hub, service starts Dec 1, you can read about it here -

http://www.primezone.com/newsroom/news.html?d=88155

it's good to Google around before you start speculating on things like this

[beerbeer]

When it comes to Charlotte I completely agree about the laws in NC being business friendly compared to Connectiicut.

However,, I've spent time in Charlotte. I have to as I do some work with NASCAR. At night the downtown is deader than Harttford. And if you don't think they have natural disasters there, you haven't seen the name of their hockey team. And culturally, the city is a void. That may come in time but it's still a cultural backwash.

But you completely miss the point. New England is not going to dry up. The Hartford area is growing and has been. The demographic trends in the city are a result of the tiny area it covers. If Hartford were the physical size of Charlotte, iit would compare quite well.

Again, I agree that the laws are less friendly. But that has to do with the fact Hartford is a mature city and the south had no industry to regulate until the 1970's.

If your post contained a single fact, I've yet to find it. But don't let that stop you from a good tirade. BTW, next time format your post by using paragraphs like we do in the north.

[Germaine]

When it comes to Charlotte I completely agree about the laws in NC being business friendly compared to Connectiicut.

However,, I've spent time in Charlotte. I have to as I do some work with NASCAR. At night the downtown is deader than Harttford. And if you don't think they have natural disasters there, you haven't seen the name of their hockey team. And culturally, the city is a void. That may come in time but it's still a cultural backwash.

But you completely miss the point. New England is not going to dry up. The Hartford area is growing and has been. The demographic trends in the city are a result of the tiny area it covers. If Hartford were the physical size of Charlotte, iit would compare quite well.

Again, I agree that the laws are less friendly. But that has to do with the fact Hartford is a mature city and the south had no industry to regulate until the 1970's.

If your post contained a single fact, I've yet to find it. But don't let that stop you from a good tirade. BTW, next time format your post by using paragraphs like we do in the north.

You're in Washington, DC and consider yourself "the north"? Wow.

No offense, but you can't criticize Virgo for a lack of facts when your own post about Charlotte is lacking any.

First of all, the Hurricanes play in Raleigh.

Well before 1970, Birmingham was a center of steel production. Charlotte and Atlanta were centers of textile manufacturing. Most furniture manufactured in the world came from NC.

Charlotte's downtown is home to over 10,000 residents in a area less than one square mile. It's hard to imagine that it's "dead" at night.

Cultural backwater? That's not a fact, that's an opinion based on prejudice.

I think that the point Virgo was trying to make was to say there are examples of places that surprise some of us for their urban vibrancy. What lessens can we learn from them? I don't agree with all of Virgo's asserations by any stretch but if you're going to insist on facts, then stick to the facts and leave bigoted opinions to yourself.

[beerbeer]

Hey, I spend time in Charlotte, remember. I Grew up in CT and have business there as well. I was in Hartford in September.

A hurricane came through North Carolina earlier this year. The reason the out banks are outer bannks is because NC is constantly slammed with huricanes. Raleigh is further north than Charlotte and their team is the Hurricanes, get it?

The south in general had no unions in the 50s, 60, and 70s. Cheap non-union labor drove the growth of those cities. Northern cities are more and heavily uniioned. That is why the business friendly climate exist in Charlotte and not Boston, Providence or Worchester or Hartford. It's nice that Charlotte had a steel mill but compared to the noorth it was hardly industrialized in the 70s.

As recently as last Presidents Day weekend, I walked night I walked the streeets of Charlotte, downtown Charlotte, from my hotel to dinner, and didn't run into another soul.

There isn't an exhibit in Charlotte to match the Athenium's current surrealist exhibit. On a list of American cultural centers, Charlotte is far, far down the list whether you measure by art collection, ehtnic restaurants or historical significance. Heck, I lived in Atlanta which is culturally light years ahead of Charlotte and that was a cultural void compared to New England.

I have no bone to pick with Charlotte but THOSE ARE THE FACTS. That flamer came over here with his anti-northern rhetoric and alll I'mm doing is setting the record straight..

[BJE]

I think the general point Germaine was trying to make that there is a strong demand, nationwide, for urban living. He used Charlotte as an example, but did concede that "it's hard to compare." The ongoing resurgence of the downtown lifestyle in New Haven, Providence, or Pittsburg are probably more relevant examples of markets that are successfully absorbing hundreds if not thousands of new high end condos and apartments.

To the point of people posting to the Hartford forum being "pompous, ignorant, and misguided," I can't agree. Perhaps there is a bit of boosterism going on, but I think that's a GOOD sign for Hartford. Go back ten years and see if you kind find anyone anywhere who was enthusiastic about Hartford in any way.

The enthusiasm is not blind, and the problems facing Hartford have been mentioned if perhaps not discussed in depth. In my opinion, those problems (poverty, crime, violence, substance abuse) will not and can not be fixed by improvments to the built environment. They are social problems, they are very culturally entrenched, and the solutions have to come from primarily within the affected communities themselves, not from the government and society at large.

By the way, up until the beginning of the month, I lived in downtown Hartford for several years, and I can elaborate on the "rotten cores" surrounding downtown if you'd like -- but that would be another thread. Start one and I'll be happy to join in.

BJE

[JC3124]

I think the general point Germaine was trying to make that there is a strong demand, nationwide, for urban living. He used Charlotte as an example, but did concede that "it's hard to compare." The ongoing resurgence of the downtown lifestyle in New Haven, Providence, or Pittsburg are probably more relevant examples of markets that are successfully absorbing hundreds if not thousands of new high end condos and apartments.

To the point of people posting to the Hartford forum being "pompous, ignorant, and misguided," I can't agree. Perhaps there is a bit of boosterism going on, but I think that's a GOOD sign for Hartford. Go back ten years and see if you kind find anyone anywhere who was enthusiastic about Hartford in any way.

The enthusiasm is not blind, and the problems facing Hartford have been mentioned if perhaps not discussed in depth. In my opinion, those problems (poverty, crime, violence, substance abuse) will not and can not be fixed by improvments to the built environment. They are social problems, they are very culturally entrenched, and the solutions have to come from primarily within the affected communities themselves, not from the government and society at large.

By the way, up until the beginning of the month, I lived in downtown Hartford for several years, and I can elaborate on the "rotten cores" surrounding downtown if you'd like -- but that would be another thread. Start one and I'll be happy to join in.

BJE

I think the ongoing resurgence of the downtown lifestyle in hartford compares easily, just my opinion.

[TheseGoTo11]

I have been going there 1-2 times a year since the 80s, and CLT has to be the most pleasant cultural wasteland ever created. It's clean, the people are friendly, and the whole city is about as interesting as the West Farms Mall.

There is undoubtedly improvement going on downtown, or as they say there - uptown, but when it's built out, the central area of Charlotte will at best be an overgrown Reston, VA. Because whether it builds strip malls or "new urban" high-rises, Charlotte always embraces chain stores.

[Luca Brasi]

How many of you actually live in Hartford proper? Luca? Tycoon? How many of you can actually relate to the issues that affect Hartford?

I have lived in Hartford proper for the last 20 years. I live on the 20th floor of a high rise in the Asylum Hill section of Hartford.

It seems you took the reference to Charlotte as some kind of comparison of cities. Calm down - it wasn't.

[beerbeer]

Hartford is about 17 square miles.

Charlotte is about 240 square miles.

It's a lot harder to live in Hartford proper.

[TheBostonian]

Hartford is about 17 square miles.

Charlotte is about 240 square miles.

It's a lot harder to live in Hartford proper.

It is impossible to compare areas based on city borders because they are so darn arbitrary. You have to compare the metros to make any sense of the real differences.

[jcrc]

They would rather deal with better living conditions, quality of life, and better pay!!! And Charlotte has it..not Hartford..not Providence and certainly not Boston..

hmmm...Boston income per capita ranked number 5 in the country, year over year change 1.3%; Hartford number 18, year over year change 1.9%; Providence number 77, year over year change 3.3%; Charlotte number 52, year over year change 2.9%; Atlanta number 51, year over year change 2.4%.

Income per capita U.S. 32K, CT 45K, MA 41K, GA 30K, NC 29K. If you are in finance and real estate, you will have better luck chasing money in New England.

How many of you actually live in Hartford proper?

I live in Hartford, and I have a business in downtown Hartford. Yes, I can relate to the issues that affect Hartford. However, my issues are not necessary your issues, and my solutions are not necessary your solutions.

Do you really think that the only thing Charlotte has going on is big buildings? Hartford is separated from every rich suburb that shares its borders. They will ALWAYS absorb every social service ,welfare, and government agency that comes along as long as the communities across Connecticut shun their own capital city.

I doubt West Hartford and Glastonbury use more social service and welfare than Hartford.

look at Buffalo, NY. Explain to me how prices have deteriorated 33% in 10 years. People go where jobs are.They go where quality of life supersedes all. Buffalo has a a real nice skyline and is 3x the size of Hartford. It doesn't take away the fact that is shunned from N.Y. state and everyone is leaving town. Why would anyone move to Providence or Hartford or Boston from out of the area? Or even from nearby suburbs?

Then explain to me how prices in Hartford/Boston/Providence increased.

[HartfordTycoon]

hmmm...Boston income per capita ranked number 5 in the country, year over year change 1.3%; Hartford number 18, year over year change 1.9%; Providence number 77, year over year change 3.3%;

Good points all around, but this stuck out to me. Probably due to the heated debates in our New England forum. I'm not going to comment, really....... but this is very telling about the rank in which our cities fall.

BTW here is another list on which Hartford is #6 behind Boston at #5

Per Capita Rank of US Metros

[Germaine]

Hey, I spend time in Charlotte, remember. I Grew up in CT and have business there as well. I was in Hartford in September.

A hurricane came through North Carolina earlier this year. The reason the out banks are outer bannks is because NC is constantly slammed with huricanes. Raleigh is further north than Charlotte and their team is the Hurricanes, get it?

The south in general had no unions in the 50s, 60, and 70s. Cheap non-union labor drove the growth of those cities. Northern cities are more and heavily uniioned. That is why the business friendly climate exist in Charlotte and not Boston, Providence or Worchester or Hartford. It's nice that Charlotte had a steel mill but compared to the noorth it was hardly industrialized in the 70s.

As recently as last Presidents Day weekend, I walked night I walked the streeets of Charlotte, downtown Charlotte, from my hotel to dinner, and didn't run into another soul.

There isn't an exhibit in Charlotte to match the Athenium's current surrealist exhibit. On a list of American cultural centers, Charlotte is far, far down the list whether you measure by art collection, ehtnic restaurants or historical significance. Heck, I lived in Atlanta which is culturally light years ahead of Charlotte and that was a cultural void compared to New England.

I have no bone to pick with Charlotte but THOSE ARE THE FACTS. That flamer came over here with his anti-northern rhetoric and alll I'mm doing is setting the record straight..

I'm just curious because I don't really give a flip about whether or not its Miami, Atlanta, Boston, Hartford, Baltimore or Pittsburgh but why are we belittling one place over another? How can you criticize a city like Charlotte when you don't even live there. You visited the city over a weekend which means it must have been about as thrilling as downtown Washington, DC (where I once lived and went to graduate school).

Visitors to Hartford more often than not see and say some pretty dismal things about Hartford b/c they are ignorant of the place. Statements like this or that city are a "cultural void" compared to...(fill in the blank) demonstrate ignorance and don't really help in the conversation about how to make Hartford greater or help to let people know how great a city it is.

WE know that the Hartford METRO is one of the richest in the country but we should ashamed that the CITY of Hartford (and Connecticut's other big cities) are among the most poverty ridden. We look at a place like Charlotte and say, well it's 230 square miles you can't compare. Well, what DOES work when a city is that large geographically? For one, the school system isn't segregated into rich v. poor neighborhoods. There's fiscal efficiency b/c there's no duplication of services (fire, water, police, etc.) for the citizens of the region. There's effective regional planning that in the case of Charlotte - which sprawls no more or less than other large cities - focuses development around nodes that will soon be served by light rail.

Rather than criticize other places and making gross generalizations based upon prejudice, why not see if there's something to learn for those places? That's not a knock on Hartford or New England; it's just smart.

HERE'S THE POINT: Hartford certainly can support MORE residential in our downtown!!!

[HartfordTycoon]

Rather than criticize other places and making gross generalizations based upon prejudice, why not see if there's something to learn for those places? That's not a knock on Hartford or New England; it's just smart.

HERE'S THE POINT: Hartford certainly can support MORE residential in our downtown!!!

I agree with everything you said. There is alot to learn from the large cities in the sunbelt. They have regionalism mastered to a tee. Compared to them, almost the entire Northeast is 100 yrs. behind in that regard.

And yes, the downtown housing stock that is planned will only be the tip of the iceburg of what we can support here.

[Germaine]

And yes, the downtown housing stock that is planned will only be the tip of the iceburg of what we can support here.

You are right-on Tycoon. I wouldn't surprised to see more renovations along several corridors. I wonder how large a population could support? It maxed out at 177K, right? I could see it going past that one day. I think I read somewhere that Jersey City is the fastest growing place in New Jersey these days...make you think...

[beerbeer]

I have visited Charllote many, many times. I have business there. The week end I mentioned was the last time I visited the city.

Let me give you an example about culture. In Atlanta, the cutural center of the south, High Museum of Art is in a beautiful building. The building itself is far superior to any piece of art contained inside. The museums in the south are just lag far behind similar institutions in places like Boston or Hartford. They just haven't been collecting that long. It's just reality.

There are some smalll pockets like Charleston or Asheville, where there are some fine and beautiful things. This was not a prioity in places like Charlotte or Atlanta which are very new cities.

At the turn of the last century, around 1900, Hartford was the richest city in America. It was full of art collectors and world travelers. The city reflects that heritage.

I'm an not making generalizations based on prejudice. If you believe there are no poor schools in the area. Go a half a mile east of downtown Charlotte. There is a poor neighborhood right there.

As I've said. I have no bone to pick with Charlotte, except when it's held up to be this incredible lifestyle ciity that shames New England. It flat ain't.

[virgo20]

I am from the North End born and raised and have lived here for over 20 years. I am all too familiar with the negative social issues facing Hartford. I went through the Hartford Public School System from K - 12, graduated from Morehouse College in Atlanta, and came home. Now I am an Underwriter at Chubb Insurance Company and sit on the Board of Directors of a comunity organization in the North End. I am very active in the community and do believe in the city and the region. If I didn't I would not be living here.

But I actually have alot of fun in Hartford, when I feel like it. I live in the North End and 98% of the time there is nothing crazy going on. When people come to Hartford they have a good time, even the subarban types from my job. I think alot of the problem is we tend to dwell on negatives up here as opposed to in development-crazy areas like the sun-belt, where the bad news never phases them. They only pay attention the what new building there is or mall and they celebrate, up here they protest. Just some thoughts......

Well, that's exactly my point!