Orlando Restaurants & Bars

[AndyPok1]

That might be the most frustrating thing I've read on these boards

[HankStrong]

Let me link some threads! J/K

[prahaboheme]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:06 PM, dwSouthEola said:

Since most everyone is brainwashed that South Eola is Thornton Park we literally asked the city to change the name and absorb us into Thornton Park to be done with it. 

Thornton Park said no.

There is/will be no such thing as TPWest.   TP is doing just fine "claiming our location & businesses" as it was put by City Hall, and I assume TP does not want the responsibility of dealing with resident issues like crime, safety, etc. so South Eola lives on but it will take a lot of work for anyone to notice or care.

So perhaps the more appropriate question is if South Eola should be absorbed by the CBD. 

[spenser1058]

The funny part, I suppose, is what ersatz verbal constructions these are. "Thornton Park" did not become a thing until the late '80's (it was basically a name pulled out of the subdivision records by Rampy, Ustler et al.)

Further, what is now Thornton Park Central was mostly a big empty lot (except for a small office tucked back off the street that housed the local Realtors' hq.)

What's now considered Thornton Park was best known for the street hustlers' 7-Eleven and the coin laundry. South Eola had the retirement towers (which were locked up as tight as Fort Knox most of the time to keep Granny safe) and was infamous as the gay cruising district at night.

I suppose the fact this is an aggressive round of verbal volleyball is a testament to the success of the area. First world problems, indeed.

For what it's worth, Thornton Park, imho, is east of Summerlin except TPC, the sevvie and Anthony's.

Since the Brick Bunker is part of downtown and it (not to mention its acres of parking lots) rambles into "South Eola," I think prahaboheme's idea makes sense.

[dcluley98]

Anybody hear anything on Handy Pantry location? I drove by today and there was a roll-off dumpster in the parking lot that looked like somebody was demo-ing the interior. 

[spenser1058]

16 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Anybody hear anything on Handy Pantry location? I drove by today and there was a roll-off dumpster in the parking lot that looked like somebody was demo-ing the interior. 

I know the owners closed due to financial issues but I haven't seen anything about what (or whom) might be taking the spot.

[dcluley98]

Yeah, I was hoping somebody would have news on a new tenant. That was a really neat little location when I briefly lived in Eola Heights. 

[HankStrong]

15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

South Eola had the retirement towers and was infamous as the gay cruising district at night.

This made me laugh out loud.  Why was a retirement center a magnet for gay cruising?  Lots and lots of elderly folks coming out?

Edited November 15, 2018 by HankStrong

[spenser1058]

13 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

This made me laugh out loud.  Why was a retirement center a magnet for gay cruising?  Lots and lots of elderly folks coming out?

I think it had more to do with the towers were built there (they were built with a lot of government grants.) because it was a cheap no man's land back in the '60's and '70's. That's also how it probably came to be the cruising district - no one much hassled anyone there.

[mdeancherry]

18 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Yeah, I was hoping somebody would have news on a new tenant. That was a really neat little location when I briefly lived in Eola Heights. 

Bungalower has an article on it. It's going to be "Eola General" and the guys from Dixie Dharma and the food court place in Sanford are behind it. 

[prahaboheme]

On 11/14/2018 at 1:15 PM, spenser1058 said:

The funny part, I suppose, is what ersatz verbal constructions these are. "Thornton Park" did not become a thing until the late '80's (it was basically a name pulled out of the subdivision records by Rampy, Ustler et al.)

Further, what is now Thornton Park Central was mostly a big empty lot (except for a small office tucked back off the street that housed the local Realtors' hq.)

What's now considered Thornton Park was best known for the street hustlers' 7-Eleven and the coin laundry. South Eola had the retirement towers (which were locked up as tight as Fort Knox most of the time to keep Granny safe) and was infamous as the gay cruising district at night.

I suppose the fact this is an aggressive round of verbal volleyball is a testament to the success of the area. First world problems, indeed.

For what it's worth, Thornton Park, imho, is east of Summerlin except TPC, the sevvie and Anthony's.

Since the Brick Bunker is part of downtown and it (not to mention its acres of parking lots) rambles into "South Eola," I think prahaboheme's idea makes sense.

Central Ave, with its continuous street wall from Orange over to Summerlin, has gone a long way to make the seamless transition from the CBD to South Eola. 

Church Street’s slow transition  into a more urban stretch should also help to patch this area together.

[dcluley98]

The change on Pine and Church in that area has been dramatic to me. It went from empty lots and duplexes to multi-story and GF retail fast. The problem is, the GF Retail does not seem to be succeeding and there does not seem to be non-organic traffic frequenting the area other than the Publix. Will more residents make a sustainable neighborhood with more viable business opportunities? Perhaps, but the economics of trying to make this happen does not seem to be working. It seems like "the rent is too damn high" in these manufactured neighborhoods for local businesses to thrive and maybe it will hamper creating a real neighborhood in South Eola for quite some time as the GF remains vacant and residents continue to travel elsewhere for regular needs.   They need more Draw to make it work, especially at the prices they are forcing due to development cost. 

[prahaboheme]

Begs the question if the mixed-use trend of groundfloor retail is even appropriate in some of these newer developments - seems a bit like a rubber stamp approach to city building. 

I recall when Camden Court converted their retail spaces on Orange into apartments due to lack of occupancy. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by prahaboheme

[dcluley98]

The requirements are hampering the real free-market forces, IMHO. I think Mixed-use could work if there was more of a balance in the mix, specifically more commercial/office space rather than the currently seen "bunch of overpriced rent apartments with some hipster beer/taco/burger joints on the bottom" approach. That is proven to be unsuccessful over time, and yet, the requirements exist and everybody thinks it will work in the future. . . I would like to see more robust requirements of instead of just allocating space, maybe having a retail approach with vetted tenants and pro-forma for ongoing business prospects with perhaps larger spaces for national retailers. They just build the space thinking anybody can do this and succeed and end up with a lot of dreamers moving in (or nobody moving in) that are doomed to fail eventually. 

It is quite sad and unproductive as I see it, and I wish it could change, for the benefit of our city/neighborhoods and those that are trying to create viable businesses, but may not have the foresight to see their inevitable failure.  

[spenser1058]

I think retail works best in clusters. Just because there's a space for it on the ground floor of a building does not ensure enough foot traffic to make it succeed. I can't imagine any particular reason to go looking for retail in a parking garage on W. Washington St. or, for that matter, at the Vue along the racetrack that is Rosalind Ave.

Had Buddy gotten more serious about active retail planning with a competent DDB staff, they could have put retail nodes in the places they might have been successful together instead of the  willy-nilly approach we got.

There's a reason retail works better in downtown WP and WG  than in Orlando and that's because people know where to find it.

[dcluley98]

That and the economics. They are positioning these spaces to fail, just because of the development costs and the exorbitant variable costs. 

Retail has very thin margins and thrives on low cost areas with clustering of traffic. This is not a new or arcane concept, and it surprises me that our code creators and MPB do not know or care to ignore this. 

BTW. East side of South Eola is RIPE for a  CVS to compete with the DT Walgreens!

Edited November 16, 2018 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

So, we're getting a new Irish pub at 2 S. Orange where Banco Popular used to be. I'm not ready to give up my loyalty to the Harp & Celt but it would be interesting to spend some time in the old Dickson and Ives building. The last time I was in there, I was wearing my Buster Browns and trying to navigate the crowds with my mom at the store's going out of business sale about 1963. 

https://bungalower.com/2018/11/19/new-irish-pub-opening-in-downtown-orlando/

Feom Bungalower

Edited November 21, 2018 by spenser1058

[smileguy]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:27 PM, dcluley98 said:

The change on Pine and Church in that area has been dramatic to me. It went from empty lots and duplexes to multi-story and GF retail fast. The problem is, the GF Retail does not seem to be succeeding and there does not seem to be non-organic traffic frequenting the area other than the Publix. Will more residents make a sustainable neighborhood with more viable business opportunities? Perhaps, but the economics of trying to make this happen does not seem to be working. It seems like "the rent is too damn high" in these manufactured neighborhoods for local businesses to thrive and maybe it will hamper creating a real neighborhood in South Eola for quite some time as the GF remains vacant and residents continue to travel elsewhere for regular needs.   They need more Draw to make it work, especially at the prices they are forcing due to development cost. 

I'm not on the ground every day,  but it seems like the small-footprint live/work spaces at 420 are working a lot better than the larger restaurant spaces at Sanctuary/TPC/101 S. Eola, likely do to rental costs. If this is the case, it seems like the thing to do would be to continue to make available more, smaller spaces where small locals can open with significantly less capital (or more wiggle room as they get going.) This turns away from traditional retail with rows and rows and rows of products, but if the product/service/experience available is desirable within the neighborhood, there is a better chance of them doing well, and if a store fails, it leaves a small, easily fillable hole as opposed to leaving vacant a large stretch of storefont. 

[orlandouprise]

Has the food truck park in hourglass opened? If not, any idea when?

[smileguy]

19 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Has the food truck park in hourglass opened? If not, any idea when?

I drove by today and it looked like it hasn't been touched. The one in the Milk District opened last weekend. 

[dwSouthEola]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:27 PM, dcluley98 said:

The change on Pine and Church in that area has been dramatic to me. It went from empty lots and duplexes to multi-story and GF retail fast. The problem is, the GF Retail does not seem to be succeeding and there does not seem to be non-organic traffic frequenting the area other than the Publix.

The DDB & Orlando Main Street are ignoring that what they're doing isn't working.  Counter to their efforts to appropriate South Eola for Thornton Park (or turn SE into TPWest?) time itself will establish South Eola as the complete 'City Living' package it is, the only downtown neighborhood with a Live Work Play lifestyle that without a doubt blows the idea of being Thornton Park as a selling point out of the water.  South Eola has a Publix, Lake Eola (!!) and the only dog park downtown in Constitution Green.  Building a brand/identity for South Eola around these things alone would 100% draw more people and in the long term be better for business than any manufactured counterfeit claim.

Is building a brand from the ground up more work than the TPD telling businesses to call themselves "Blank of Thornton Park" ?? Sure, but for as successful as the TPD is in promoting itself, I can count 10 businesses that have closed here in the last 3yrs. If the city, DDB, Main Street, etc. and SE neighborhood association could actually work together to tap in to the identity of South Eola, businesses could flourish (without a forced connection to something they do not identify with) that authenticity would lead the way for something to become the fabric of our community and live here forever .. like a Dexters, or Maxines.   The Osceola corner GF retail in 420 that's never been occupied (or any of the impending 520 space) could finally be what it takes to draw people in/throughout the neighborhood - but then things like naming 420 "Camden TP" adds that drag on progress, the "that's our story and we're sticking to it" rubber stamp.  Le sigh..

[dcluley98]

Saw a sign up for new Ramen place on Orange in the old Philly Connecton space: 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/consumer/os-cfb-the-ramen-downtown-orlando-20181005-story.html

Edited November 28, 2018 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

Scott J’s readers have picked the Hangry Bison as Best Burger this year. Perennial champ Dubsdread Tap Room came in second by 3 votes.

https://www.scottjosephorlando.com/foodster-awards/past-winners/4572-upstart-hangry-bison-takes-best-burger-title

 

[HankStrong]

Every vote counts.  Vote early!  Vote often!

[Jernigan]

Somewhat related - went to lunch at Lions Den today.   Everyone’s food looked stellar and I had their All American Burger.   Mix of angus and brisket.  Best burger I’ve had.   Bar none.

Anyway, place was a ghost town and I would be shocked if they are open a year from now.