Orlando Restaurants & Bars

[popsiclebrandon]

5 years after it was filed the Gringos lawsuit is settled the day before the trial. Lawyers always win.

[bqknight]

I'm surprised that no one posted this...or maybe I missed it. But the Pop Parlor closed their DT location.

[HankStrong]

21 hours ago, bqknight said:

I'm surprised that no one posted this...or maybe I missed it. But the Pop Parlor closed their DT location.

Never heard of it.

[prahaboheme]

Happy to see that the Sentinel is reporting on another DeSatan jab at Orlando: 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-desantis-targets-drag-show-orlando-philharmonic-scott-maxwell-20230207-5ywdetwu6nevxbrpwuxz2n3uze-story.html

Where is Buddy though? Are elected officials too afraid to step in?

[dcluley98]

Not sure if this was posted here or not, but I walked by the SW corner of the plaza and they were progressing pretty far on the interior buildout of the higher end restaurant space "The Debonair Supper Club" 

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2023/02/03/masons-famous-lobster-rolls-2-south-orange-downtow.html

https://whatnoworlando.com/debonair-supper-club-aims-to-bring-a-modern-take-on-the-supper-club-tradition-to-orlando/

 

Looks like it will be close to opening in a couple weeks. 

[Jernigan]

Pop Parlour has closed.

 

@popsiclebrandonwhat are you working on? Is UCF still open?  Let us know if we can help/share/purchase anywhere.

[popsiclebrandon]

15 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Pop Parlour has closed.

 

@popsiclebrandonwhat are you working on? Is UCF still open?  Let us know if we can help/share/purchase anywhere.

We closed in Jan when our lease ended. Rent increase was insane. UCF and Dallas still open with some new ones coming next year.

Still have bar/restaurant coming in Ivanhoe this summer and another project I am hopefully able to share with you all this summer as well that's our biggest thing.

[jrs2]

Last week or so The City mandated that bars need an extra permit to serve past midnight.

[codypet]

I don't know if anyone saw this yesterday, but Pom Pom's was pleading to its fans on facebook to patronize as they appear to have been hit so hard by the pandemic, that they haven't recovered their business and are in danger of closing.  I was there a few weeks ago and I did notice the owner sitting outside with an employee crying, but I didn't think anything of it.  Food was as good as it always is despite the opinions of people online including ex Mrs. Codypet skewering it online.

[popsiclebrandon]

Place sucks and she is awful to her employees.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Place sucks and she is awful to her employees.

the closest I ever got to that place was the Asian food place that had a writeup on it...and the records store...

[HankStrong]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:24 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

Place sucks and she is awful to her employees.

We went once before COVID and it wasn't good.  I read the plea to get people to come back and it read like a dramatic/chaotic wonderland of a plea.

I have a friend that loves it and goes all the time because she lives around the corner.

[HankStrong]

I feel like I should write up a report for the group about the closings of Porkies Original BBQ and Ace Cafe in the style of Spense.

I could quote Scott Joseph's feelings on them and link Sentinel articles that are behind paywalls.  I could suggest that instead of giving a Reader's Digest version of those articles, that you buy a subscription and also subscribe to Reader's Digest, if that still exists.

I could mention how Porkies sits on the original site of some Seminole war meeting hall and how about 55 years ago a child found an axe making the front page of the paper.  I could mention how Ace Cafe was the former site of Uncle Jimmy's Hardware Store & Stock Exchange.  I could tell the tale of how when I was 6 my dad took me there for my first socket wrench and bought me a share of Tropicana stock.  How once a man was shot there for reciting a poem by Lord Byron too loudly.  Since I'm not Spense, they'd all be lies but I'd want them to be true like I believe his tales were.

I could finish off with a jab at Buddy Dyer who I'm 99% sure already had his bulldozer at the site to knock everything down at a minute's notice.

Edited June 1, 2023 by HankStrong

[AmIReal]

Orlando heat map for restaurants.

The 13 Hottest Restaurants in Orlando Right Now (eater.com)

[popsiclebrandon]

Crazy how much the Bento bros own now.

[smileguy]

Zymarium Meadery is opening next month at Mills and Lake Highland (old orange studio).  I got to go to their first day of soft opening yesterday.  The place is beautiful, I enjoyed learning about mead (something I'm new to) and it's going to be a great addition to the area, and the first business of its kind for the region. 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by smileguy

[popsiclebrandon]

Will of Will's Pub fame is apparently opening a bar in College Park

[jgardnerucf]

44 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Will of Will's Pub fame is apparently opening a bar in College Park

Wrong sir. That's Will, of Cleo's downtown, set to open soon. Been in works for a long time.

[popsiclebrandon]

5 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Wrong sir. That's Will, of Cleo's downtown, set to open soon. Been in works for a long time.

Ahhh thank you. That makes more sense.

[nite owℓ]

DoveCote Restaurant to move from its downtown Orlando location.

They will announce the new location in coming months. They were an asset to downtown, so I view this as a loss for the CBD. I wonder what will take its place or will the commercial space become another dead zone downtown. Hoping for the best.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/dovecote-restaurant-relocate-its-downtown-orlando-location/R2RIGDUQEFCLLOU5SHSPTP2M2I/

[popsiclebrandon]

DoveCote was a fav before new owners. They made it absolutely horrible and they got evicted so no surprise they are leaving. Hope the owner never opens another place.

[nite owℓ]

2 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

DoveCote was a fav before new owners. They made it absolutely horrible and they got evicted so no surprise they are leaving. Hope the owner never opens another place.

Just curious since you're a business owner in the restaurant/food industry... With the economy and interest rates the way they are, what is your overall outlook on the scene for the next 1-3 years?

Also, as an outsider, it almost seems risky to run a restaurant in the CBD with inflated rent and low foot traffic to support business... if I was a business owner and had to choose a location, it would be WP due to the higher income demographic. Do you think small downtowns will be able to recover?

In Buddy's State of Downtown speech, he said "The days of our downtown as just a Central Business District are over... The rise of our downtown as a true neighborhood for everyone is here." https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/09/27/dyer-spotlights-plan-to-shift-downtown-orlando-from-business-hub-to-neighborhood/

They've been harping about making downtown more focused on lifestyle and experiences, but IMO a vibrant businesses environment is a key element in supporting their vision. I would even speculate business employees and non-residents probably spend more money downtown and provide more street-level activity than actual residents living downtown. Filling bodies in expensive apartments with little discretionary income has not worked. Not sure what the answer is, but my personal view of downtown going forward is quite bleak.

Edited October 5, 2023 by nite owℓ

[popsiclebrandon]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:10 PM, nite owℓ said:

Just curious since you're a business owner in the restaurant/food industry... With the economy and interest rates the way they are, what is your overall outlook on the scene for the next 1-3 years?

Also, as an outsider, it almost seems risky to run a restaurant in the CBD with inflated rent and low foot traffic to support business... if I was a business owner and had to choose a location, it would be WP due to the higher income demographic. Do you think small downtowns will be able to recover?

In Buddy's State of Downtown speech, he said "The days of our downtown as just a Central Business District are over... The rise of our downtown as a true neighborhood for everyone is here." https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/09/27/dyer-spotlights-plan-to-shift-downtown-orlando-from-business-hub-to-neighborhood/

They've been harping about making downtown more focused on lifestyle and experiences, but IMO a vibrant businesses environment is a key element in supporting their vision. I would even speculate business employees and non-residents probably spend more money downtown and provide more street-level activity than actual residents living downtown. Filling bodies in expensive apartments with little discretionary income has not worked. Not sure what the answer is, but my personal view of downtown going forward is quite bleak.

My viewpoint which is probably wrong on a few points.

Downtown is dying because of landlords. We originally signed our lease for our little spot on Central in 2012. Our rent at the time was about $1300 a month. After 10 years our lease was up for renewal and the offer was around $2900 a month. Its just not a feasible number as we have seen foot traffic slow down (not to mention full rent was required during Covid so our billionaire landlords can keep their stock price up) and had to deal with a lot of crime and safety issues. Finding staff that wanted to work there at night was tricky and when the renewal came in at that price we had an easy decision.  Would we have stayed if the rent was flat or lowered? Yeah probably but glad we didn't. Its now still sitting empty 10 months later so great math by our landlord. They loved to tell us there was a line of people wanting the spot but guess not.

 

Next month we're opening our bar/restaurant in Ivanhoe and I could not be more bullish on an area. Ivanhoe is dense and walkable (mostly) and has a lot of great spots to eat/drink/shop. Downtown just doesn't have any of that anymore. I do think food costs are realllllly hard right now but if you know what you are doing and keep your menu simple and straight you don't need to raise prices to where I'm seeing them now. The biggest issue is still rent for every operator and until a correction happens, which I don't see coming, we're going to see a lot more closures around town.

 

Its just sad because I was on the Project DTO board and enjoyed the process and even felt some of the meetings were good. The city refusing to provide incentives outside the CRA is going to be bad long term. I don't see any of these new spots trying to open on Church staying around long so the city is pouring money into zombie businesses that already got bit before they even open. Downtown is 5-10 years away from a comeback and with Tampa/St Pete lapping us I'm not even sure it comes back in that timeframe. I've seen no big company make a move into the general core in a long time and with the shift away from offices its may not come. We may see a few people with high incomes that are working from home move here for the weather or whatever but I think we just need to get comfortable with the idea that downtown is dead but the surrounding areas are thriving.

 

[dcluley98]

Been saying it for a while that it is the rent costs causing this revolving door of businesses. 

It is dumb as hell to require all retailers to provide ground-floor retail space in every building with lack of the economics to fill the space. We just end up with empty store-fronts or revolving door starts and closes with people trying the impossible and losing money, rinse repeat. 

The economics just don't work with the numbers involved here. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by dcluley98

[nite owℓ]

On 10/11/2023 at 12:15 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

My viewpoint which is probably wrong on a few points.

Downtown is dying because of landlords. We originally signed our lease for our little spot on Central in 2012. Our rent at the time was about $1300 a month. After 10 years our lease was up for renewal and the offer was around $2900 a month. Its just not a feasible number as we have seen foot traffic slow down (not to mention full rent was required during Covid so our billionaire landlords can keep their stock price up) and had to deal with a lot of crime and safety issues. Finding staff that wanted to work there at night was tricky and when the renewal came in at that price we had an easy decision.  Would we have stayed if the rent was flat or lowered? Yeah probably but glad we didn't. Its now still sitting empty 10 months later so great math by our landlord. They loved to tell us there was a line of people wanting the spot but guess not.

 

Next month we're opening our bar/restaurant in Ivanhoe and I could not be more bullish on an area. Ivanhoe is dense and walkable (mostly) and has a lot of great spots to eat/drink/shop. Downtown just doesn't have any of that anymore. I do think food costs are realllllly hard right now but if you know what you are doing and keep your menu simple and straight you don't need to raise prices to where I'm seeing them now. The biggest issue is still rent for every operator and until a correction happens, which I don't see coming, we're going to see a lot more closures around town.

 

Its just sad because I was on the Project DTO board and enjoyed the process and even felt some of the meetings were good. The city refusing to provide incentives outside the CRA is going to be bad long term. I don't see any of these new spots trying to open on Church staying around long so the city is pouring money into zombie businesses that already got bit before they even open. Downtown is 5-10 years away from a comeback and with Tampa/St Pete lapping us I'm not even sure it comes back in that timeframe. I've seen no big company make a move into the general core in a long time and with the shift away from offices its may not come. We may see a few people with high incomes that are working from home move here for the weather or whatever but I think we just need to get comfortable with the idea that downtown is dead but the surrounding areas are thriving.

 

Their loss. In a mixed-use building, wouldn't it make more sense for landlords to offer their residential tenants an amenity of some sort rather than leave the commercial space empty? That never made any sense to me - unless there is some tax loophole that I don't know about which allows them to write off vacant commercial space.

Are commercial landlords not offering sliding-scale or percentage leases, or are those types of leases more of a rare opportunity in Orlando? Meaning the base rent could stay at $1,300/month, but they get a percentage of sales during peak months. Seems like a decent compromise, especially when the economy gets rocky. Also, I'm curious if you've ever considered operating a business in Winter Park - that seems to be where the money's at.

As a small independent landlord, it always made more sense for me to charge below market rate which allowed my well qualified tenants to thrive and have extra spending money - they renewed for several years until they moved out of town, got married or bought their own property. For me, that strategy resulted in less vacancies and loyal tenants who renewed for several years and always paid rent on time - even throughout the pandemic. In my case, it helps that I bought over a decade ago, so maybe some landlords are hindered by today's high mortgages with increasing property taxes and insurance.

Side note...

While it's easy for everyone to blame corporate landlords and institutional investors, we also have to be cognizant that we might be contributing to the problem as well (albeit, inadvertently). For example, REITs have shareholders to answer to, but ironically everyday people struggling to buy a home or find affordable commercial/residential rentals may very well be the same shareholders profiting off the madness in real estate. If we disagree with what's going on right now, then it may be prudent to move money out of investments (mutual funds, IRA, 401ks, stocks, etc.) that do not align with our personal beliefs, morals and ethics. If commercial loans and homeowners begin to default/foreclose due to the high amount of debt being carried, investors are likely waiting in the wings to swoop in and buy even more properties. We have to decide if our investments are worth more than the impact on society. I'm not directing this at anyone specifically, just some food for thought.