North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[monsoon]

These are the future plans for service. The eastern portion may happen. The western portion, it seems, is on permanent hold.

[ERJ170]

These are the future plans for service. The eastern portion may happen. The western portion, it seems, is on permanent hold.

Unfortunately, it shows no service to the beach (except Wilmington). Perhaps one day when the east coast cries loud enough, at least once daily train service could happen..

[Gard]

^

Thats what I was thinking. I would like to see at least one to the outerbanks. It would be a smart move IMO to help create even more tourism in this area, which relies so heavily on it. I know I would love to be able to just jump on a train to the outerbanks for a weekend getaway! It could even be a seasonal train to cut down on operating costs.

[monsoon]

While we wait, I found a great site that is from a group of train enthusiasts in Hong Kong. They have filed some great trip reports that should be of interest to anyone who is a train person. It's kinda off topic, I know, but it does give an idea of various levels of train building. It's one of the few sites like this that is written in English.

This is another one covering a train trip from Russia to North Korea.

[ERJ170]

^

Thats what I was thinking. I would like to see at least one to the outerbanks. It would be a smart move IMO to help create even more tourism in this area, which relies so heavily on it. I know I would love to be able to just jump on a train to the outerbanks for a weekend getaway! It could even be a seasonal train to cut down on operating costs.

Is there a rail line that runs to the OBX? At least a line to Morehead would allow access to the ferry system to Ocracoke.. I think the line would do good for beach goers, locals, and business leaders.. but alas.. it's not a high priority for the poor eastern part of the state to get some loving..

[monsoon]

I created a topic about Japan finally retiring the original series of bullet trains that went into service more than 45 years ago. It's considered obsolete now. Sadly, it ran faster than the trains we are considering now for the SEHSR project.

[orulz]

Whoops! another accident for the Piedmont:

Train Slamis into Car Hauler in Northeast Charlotte

I guess that means that now, BOTH of DOT's F59 locomotives are out of service for wreck repairs. For now, NCDOT is left to run the Piedmont with just one locomotive - a 43 year old GP40.

I guess the F59s were going in for some sort of overhaul anyway, so apparently NCDOT was already planning to lease another pair of locomotives from elsewhere while the F59s are out, the trains will be covered.

NCDOT needs more grade separations. Seriously, building a bridge has to be cheaper than fixing these locomotives every couple of months.

[monsoon]

Agreed. This area is one of those places where Charlotte has allowed subdivisions to sprawl around this once rural track so there is a lot of traffic crossing through here. It sounds as if the truck driver tried to take a short cut instead of taking Harris Blvd and maybe jack knifed on the track. I have not been through here in several years, but I seem to remember it being a tight turn and a rise to get over those tracks. If I remember correctly, it does have signaling for the cars.

It's in the single track section so if the state is going to upgrade to dual tracks, maybe then it would be a good time to put in some more bridges. I still contend that this section of track would be a great place to implement commuter rail between Charlotte and Kannapolis with a stop in Concord and UNCC/485. It seems like a no brainer and one that could be done for fairly low cost. The local news said there were 118 people on the train. Ironically the truck on the tracks was carrying luxury automobiles.

[ERJ170]

********************Rail Idea***************Rail Idea****************************

Let me know what you think.. if it would be viable or not..

Crystal Coast Line

Morehead City - Havelock - New Bern - Kinston - Goldsboro - Selma - Raleigh (Trains 919 and 251)

Raleigh - Selma - Goldsboro - Kinston - New Bern - Havelock - Morehead City (Trains 920 and 252)

Train: Locomotive - Business Car (42 seats) - Dining/Sundries Car - Economy (62 seats) - Economy (62 seats)

So, how does it sound???? Think it could work?

[orulz]

I think it could work. I believe there is a market for this, no question. In fact it is in the state's rail plan; they want to build it by 2050 - but hopefully federal and state transportation policy will continue to shift and will allow it to happen much sooner.

However, it's not simply a case of finding the operational money, giving a call to Amtrak, and having the service start rolling in January. Like all other proposed passenger routes in the states, though, there are some issues that must be addressed first - basically due to the fact that railroads in NC were built in the 19th century, and have never been modernized.

Given the growing but still limited capital funds available for passenger rail in NC, I think service to Wilmington and Asheville should come first. But for interests sake, here are some of the issues that would need to be addressed to make service to Morehead City happen.

1. Crossing the CSX main line at Selma. A couple of trains a day would be OK on the diamond, but with this plus commuter trains to Goldsboro plus trains to Wilmington, the diamond at Selma would probably have to be turned into a grade separation.

2. Condition/signalization of the NCRR east of Selma, and especially east of Goldsboro. CTC would need to be installed.

3. New Bern. How do you run the trains through town, and where do you put the station? The options are, as I see it:

• Stick to the existing NCRR down the middle of Hancock Street and stop at the historic station on Queen Street.
  
• Go through town along the US 70 bypass, with a station near the Outback Steakhouse directly across the Trent River from downtown. This would be more expensive and the station would be about twice as far from downtown (1 mile vs 1/2 mile) but it would be faster and less disruptive.
  

4. Morehead City. Similar issues to New Bern - how do you run the trains and where do you stop them? Options:

• Use the existing NCRR and the historic depot. Trains would likely be limited to 10-20mph down Arendell Street so this would be slow and disruptive to pedestrians and cars. Also, how do you board passengers when the train stops in the middle of the street?
  
• Use the existing NCRR but stop the trains somewhere else, like the Wye at 26th street, or before the tracks even enter Arendell Street. The Wye option simplifies passenger boarding, reduces time spent in the Arendell median, and would give better access to Atlantic Beach, but misses downtown Morehead City, and still requires running down Arendell for about 1.5 miles. Stopping short of Arendell would simplify and speed up operations, but is a full 3 miles short of downtown.
  
• NCRR studied a Morehead City bypass in 2007. They concluded that it would only make sense with an increase in port traffic, and/or if it were built at the same time as the planned US 70 bypass (so it can share the right-of-way. Passenger trains might change the equation as well. See a map of the alternatives here. This would certainly affect station siting, too.
  

All of these issues can be addressed, but it will cost money. Addressing issue 1 and 2 would get you as far as New Bern, which would be a useful line in its own right. To get all the way to Morehead, you have to address the sticky situations of routing trains through New Bern and Morehead City, and that's where it gets complicated.

[ERJ170]

Actually, I do believe the tracks all the way to Morehead City are in pretty good shape since they are a part of the NCRR. I was completely thinking of just following the NCRR track and paying a lease fee for the daily (or twice daily) service. Amtrak did run the 2x Sat Sun service during Morehead City 150th anniversary so I would think the tracks would be okay. And NS uses them multiple times a day so they can't be in too bad of shape.

As far as the stops, I am pretty sure each city would be willing to do something.. I would love to use the Union Station in New Bern. Havelock would have to be a stop near Cherry Point. Morehead City would be difficult, but more than likely a stop needs to be near the end of the line. As far as the trains.. I was thinking of perhaps Bombardier Talent DMU rails.. with the tilting mechanisms..

Just thoughts, but I think it would be good.. there needs to be another option to get to Raleigh and to the beach besides driving..

[rooster8]

I wish the state would develop an enhanced motorcoach service to serve some of the cities that they have on their long range plans. I think some obvious connections include a Greenville to Wilson connection, Asheville to Salisbury, and perhaps Wilmington to Raleigh via Goldsboro.

[monsoon]

If anyone watched Obama in Europe this past week, he said at least once that he is envious of the high speed trains there and is asking why can't we have these trains in the USA. While this may not translate into any new federal mandates for this type of transit it is a 180 degree change from what we have seen at the top over the last 25-30 years and it a fundamental change of the gutting to all HS programs under the Bush administration.

Obama did indicate several times that train building is very important to efforts to combat global warming.

[jeffconn]

Revive train system for tourism, Edenton council suggests

A new intercity rail route in NC, perhaps? This route would go from Edenton to Hertford to Elizabeth City, then into Chesapeake and Norfolk in VA.

[ChiefJoJo]

Despite the $5B in Obama's budget & $8B in the stimulus for HSR, we won't see the type of 200+ mph trains in Europe possibly ever, unless there's a TITANIC shift in railroad corridor regulation (towards passenger movement & away from freight) and transportation funding towards HSR & rail transit (& away from roads) in this country. We simply don't have the $hundreds of billions (esp. in light of the trillions in debt we are accumulating now) to build the track necessary to run those speeds.

I would guess that the most likely scenario is development of systems like the SEHSR, where comparatively modest infrastructure investments will produce substantial gains in intercity travel market share. It might not be the TGV, but if we can get a decent foothold in the CLT to DC corridor, that would be a fantastic start.

[monsoon]

^Actually that isn't true. The stated plan for the California HSR project it to put out bids for either a European or Japanese HSR train system. See here. Whether they pull it off or not is another matter but it is their goal. It's the only site that I have seen where they have actually gotten the descriptions correct for this.

The California system is most likely a $50B system. Given the size of their economy they may be able to justify it.

[ChiefJoJo]

^Actually that isn't true. The stated plan for the California HSR project it to put out bids for either a European or Japanese HSR train system. See here. Whether they pull it off or not is another matter but it is their goal. It's the only site that I have seen where they have actually gotten the descriptions correct for this.

The California system is most likely a $50B system. Given the size of their economy they may be able to justify it.

You're right. If they are able to pull it off, the may be able to run electrified trains at a max speed just over 200mph, but CA is very much an outlier here in the US, and that is what I was trying to convey. Everyone wants to talk about HSR, but a vast nationwide network of TGV-like trains is not in our future, and people need to know the distinction.

[orulz]

I noticed on the SEHSR website today that there are more updates on the trail project, and that the timeline for the EIS of the Raleigh-Richmond segment has been accellerated. Now it's roughly back where it was before they pushed it back, with the draft EIS being completed by the end of this year. I think that's faster by at least 6 months.

Compared to the project in California, the project in VA and NC will have few controversial segments. California is finding out that there is an opposition contingent along the line clear from Gilroy to San Francisco.

I do expect at least some ruckus here, though.

So far, the only ruckus we've seen are complaints from Franklinton about possible grade crossing closures, and the city of Raleigh's response to the SEHSR's proposed closures at West, Harrington, and Jones street. Anyway, that aside, I expect there to be very little controversy in Raleigh since the line sticks mostly to industrial areas. I predict that the main flash point between Raleigh and Richmond will be the well-to-do suburb of Wake Forest.

[ChiefJoJo]

The President announced his vision for a national HSR network & SEHSR is well-positioned to receive funds.

More detailed info from the FRA here.

[monsoon]

^That map is the old one from the Clinton/Gore years.

[ERJ170]

Good to see Raleigh is covered in 2 lines.... DC-Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte-Atlanta-New Orleans line.. and the DC-Richmond-Raleigh-Columbia-Savannah-Jacksonville line..

[ChiefJoJo]

^That map is the old one from the Clinton/Gore years.

No. I took it directly from the Whitehouse webpage dated April 16, 2009 (link noted above). Regardless of previous iterations of HSR, this is President Obama's HSR Blueprint.

[mallguy]

No. I took it directly from the Whitehouse webpage dated April 16, 2009 (link noted above). Regardless of previous iterations of HSR, this is President Obama's HSR Blueprint.

The map is current- you're right- but the routes are basically unchanged from the Clinton and Bush years.

So much for "change we can believe in", and $13B won't do enough to make those lines truly high-speed.

[ERJ170]

How about the addition of some rail service besides the current? Just in North Carolina/South Carolina/ Virginia, there are some areas that don't have service. How about getting some of those re-instated.. Just a thought..

[miklos]

How about the addition of some rail service besides the current? Just in North Carolina/South Carolina/ Virginia, there are some areas that don't have service. How about getting some of those re-instated.. Just a thought..

North Carolina DOT's Rail Division has long had plans for passenger train service from Salisbury to Asheville and from Raleigh to Wilmington, but could never get the needed funding to upgrade the tracks. Hopefully that will change now. For further details check their website.

As for Virginia, that state has just agreed to pay Amtrak some 18M to run 2 additional trains, starting later this year; one from DC to Lynchburg (later to be extended to Roanoke) and an additional DC to Richmond run. Virginia has also long discussed a so-called "TransDominion Express" which would connect Richmond (Main Street Station) with Roanoke and Bristol. This plan, too, has languished for lack of funds.

I am not aware of Sout Carolina having any passenger rail plans. Not a progressive state when it comes to transit, I am afraid.

For more info on Virginia and North Carolina rail plans and happenings, check out the following:

Virginia Association of Railway Patrons (www.varprail.org) and Carolinas Association for Passenger Trains (www.captrail.org)