North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[burt]

Not sure the length of the Wisconsin trains, but Talgo cars are about 42 feet long, half the length of a standard 85 foot US passenger car.

Orulz, can Talgos be switched from diesel (or whatever power they use) to electric? If so, it seems to me they would be ideal for the Carolinian route. Non-electric trains cannot pass through the tunnels in NYCity to Penn Station which, unfortunately, means about a 30-minute delay in DC's Union station to switch engines.

[orulz]

Talgos would actually not be able to operate north of DC at all, because their floors are too low. I also speculate that NCDOT would not be interested given their plans to convert at least Raleigh and Charlotte to high platforms. Furthermore, I question whether we could ever see Talgo trains of any sort in North Carolina since their passive tilting technology might not work with high floors at all either. In my opinion, these Talgos are more than 90% likely to wind up in Oregon and Washington on the Cascades route.

But to answer your specific question, I'm pretty sure the Talgo trainsets Wisconsin bought don't include locomotives, so it would probably be trivial to change out a diesel locomotive for an electric one.

[mallguy]

I'd prefer "regular" railcars rather than Talgos. The lower floors on the Talgos makes a rougher ride.

[ajfunder]

I have only ridden on the Talgo's once on the Cascade service, but they didn't seem to ride rough but almost glide. NCDOT has some great classic refurbished coaches and as a rail historian I would hate to see them go.

[kermit]

Not much new here but the Charlotte Observer has a story on the partially ARRA Charlotte maintance facility.

http://www.charlotte...anned-near.html

Construction is scheduled to begin around May 2013 and continue through April 2014. The timeline for additional phases has not been determined and will depend on the availability of funding.

Edited May 8, 2012 by kermit

[kermit]

While this is not directly relevant to the topic I wanted to share this very cool map of the amtrak network (it can be resized via the links at the top of the page)

http://www.flickr.co...57624475451796/

EDIT: Charlotte and Raleigh have relatively high importance using this perspective. The map also shows (IMO) the silliness of the Silver Star route through the sandhills. It would be way better for ridership and the NC rail system to run it down the NCRR to Charlotte and then the NS to Columbia (station issues in Columbia aside)

Edited May 8, 2012 by kermit

[cowboy_wilhelm]

While this is not directly relevant to the topic I wanted to share this very cool map of the amtrak network (it can be resized via the links at the top of the page)

http://www.flickr.co...57624475451796/

EDIT: Charlotte and Raleigh have relatively high importance using this perspective. The map also shows (IMO) the silliness of the Silver Star route through the sandhills. It would be way better for ridership and the NC rail system to run it down the NCRR to Charlotte and then the NS to Columbia (station issues in Columbia aside)

That is a really cool map!

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Transportation Officials to hold Southeast High Speed Rail Project Update Meeting for Wake Forest and North Raleigh

https://apps.dot.sta...ils.aspx?r=6433

[ajfunder]

Having the Silver Star run through Charlotte and possibly a daytime connecting train from Atlanta to Charlotte would make CLT a very busy Amtrak point as well as increase the need for Gateway Station.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

It would be difficult to schedule a convenient Charlotte time for the Silver Star service. Based on the current schedule, southbound would arrive around 12:35 am and northbound would probably arrive around 7:00 am (same time the northbound Carolinian departs). Changing times for all the other stops on the route just to accommodate Charlotte probably won't be a widely accepted proposal. But I still like the idea of getting Charlotte connected to Florida.

I still want a regional Crescent during DAYLIGHT hours for Atlanta-Washington, D.C. via Lynchburg, VA. I think that route has a lot of potential, especially with the recent extension of the Northeast Regional service to Lynchburg.

Edited May 10, 2012 by cowboy_wilhelm

[ajfunder]

I really just want to see a daytime train from CLT to Atlanta and train from CLT to Columbia. Having the Silver Star through Charlotte with a better schedule would be ideal because it continues to Florida but we at least need a connector train from Charlotte to Columbia and possibly even have multiple trips per day to Columbia and maybe even one that continues onto Charleston. But with SC's not so great track record with rail, I don't see it happening for a while.

[kermit]

Based on the current schedule, southbound would arrive around 12:35 am and northbound would probably arrive around 7:00 am (same time the northbound Carolinian departs).

Yikes, you are right, the northbound schedule could not be worse for Charlotte (although its not as bad if you move the Carolinian departure to 6am instead of 7). The Southbound schedule is just about ideal -- it would leave Raleigh around 9pm so it could accomdate folks wanting to leave Raleigh after dinner. That said, given the long distance the Silver Star must travel, its timing would be so unreliable that it probably would not do much for intra-state travelers.

I do think a decent Columbia - Charlotte connection would be a big hit

Edited May 11, 2012 by kermit

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Transportation Officials to hold Southeast High Speed Rail Project Update Meeting for Wake Forest and North Raleigh

https://apps.dot.sta...ils.aspx?r=6433

I forgot to mention that I went to this (a bit late), but still had a pretty good conversation with one of the representatives, who was impressed with how much I knew about the project. I guess that was a compliment.

Some highlights that you may or may not already know:

I asked about the low platform for the SEHSR platform north of the proposed station. He said they would definitely prefer a high platform, but that it's impossible while sharing the line with freight traffic. I really hope they can create a siding or something to allow a high platform, because the delay for boarding and departing is terrible.

No freight will travel over the proposed Capital Blvd. viaduct.

They're trying to make sure the ARRA projects get completed on time so the funds aren't lost and other projects can move forward.

Maximum speed along the NCRR will be 90 mph due to the number of curves. Raleigh to Richmond will be 110 mph. I forgot to ask about grade crossings on the NCRR.

The upgraded Raleigh-Richmond S-Line can be easily upgraded to accommodate even faster trains in the future.

Anything else notable, I've forgotten.

Oh, and a shameless plug for a video I took of the Carolinian arriving in Raleigh back in March:

http://youtu.be/stydXZpWkIU?hd=1

[Otto]

Website for the proposed NCDOT Rail Maintenance Facility in Charlotte is up. See below link!

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/CharlotteRailMaint/

[ajfunder]

Trains Magazine had an outlook for the future of Amtrak. It is a great overall article. It mostley focus's on high profile corridors like the midwest and NEC but it has a little bit on the North Carolina's rail program. It more or less says North Carolina is well prepared to advance their rail system and will reap the rewards of future federal funding because of advanced planning. It also mentions extra daily Piedmont Trains are a real possibility by the end of the decade with 90mph service along the corridor.

[orulz]

Restoration of the rail line between Goldsboro and Wilmington is tentatively scheduled to begin in 2020. This is a $157 million project. The initial goal is freight service. I'm not sure what would be included in that $157 million. Certainly it would not be enough to start passenger service, but it's the first important step in that direction. Other prerequisites include: upgrading and signaling the line between Goldsboro and Wallace, new track connections in Goldsboro to allow trains to move from the NCRR to the CSX through Union Station, as well as the stations work in Goldsboro and Wilmington and everywhere in between.

[kermit]

Restoration of the rail line between Goldsboro and Wilmington is tentatively scheduled to begin in 2020. This is a $157 million project. The initial goal is freight service. I'm not sure what would be included in that $157 million. Certainly it would not be enough to start passenger service, but it's the first important step in that direction. Other prerequisites include: upgrading and signaling the line between Goldsboro and Wallace, new track connections in Goldsboro to allow trains to move from the NCRR to the CSX through Union Station, as well as the stations work in Goldsboro and Wilmington and everywhere in between.

Neat-O. Does this suggest that they have decided against the Raleigh-Fayetteville-Wilmington passenger route in favor of the Goldsboro route? Or am I reading too much into the freight project?

To bad this won't help the biggest problem at the Port of Wilmington -- rail service just from CSX. I think every other SE port has competing on-dock rail carriers.

[kermit]

In the hypothetical (but not unlikely) event that California is not able to get their HSR construction underway by the end of the year they will forfit their $3.5 billion in HSR grants. Since that money will most likely be reallocated to another rail project where does NC stand?

Is the S line now "shovel ready"?

Has the obstructionist nature of our legislature (with respect to rail) blocked the possibility of additional rail grants at the state level?

Would investments to triple / quad track from Richmond to Washington yield the largest benefits to NC? (particularly given the current political climate)

[cowboy_wilhelm]

In the hypothetical (but not unlikely) event that California is not able to get their HSR construction underway by the end of the year they will forfit their $3.5 billion in HSR grants. Since that money will most likely be reallocated to another rail project where does NC stand?

Is the S line now "shovel ready"?

Has the obstructionist nature of our legislature (with respect to rail) blocked the possibility of additional rail grants at the state level?

Would investments to triple / quad track from Richmond to Washington yield the largest benefits to NC? (particularly given the current political climate)

No.

"The Final Tier II EIS is expected to be completed by the end of 2012. The Record of Decision is expected in the Fall of 2013. Right-of-way and permit acquisition can then begin." http://www.sehsr.org/history.html

There is plenty of other stuff in need of funding. It's hard to keep track of what has already received ARRA funding, but the Charlotte maintenance facility is only partially funded, Charlotte Gateway Station, additional motive power and rolling stock for increased service, and converting the Viaduct building in Raleigh to the new station are the first things that come to mind. I'm not sure what the status of double-tracking from Charlotte to Greensboro is. Not sure what the most recent news is on the CSX/NS grade separation either. There is also the Positive Train Control implementation . . . need to research that some more.

The improvements from Richmond to Washington are certainly needed, and will benefit passenger traffic to and from North Carolina. Those may be more "shovel-ready" as well.

NCDOT is still looking at a 2018-2022 window for passenger traffic on the S-Line. Depending on funding, of course.

Edited June 23, 2012 by cowboy_wilhelm

[Otto]

No.

"The Final Tier II EIS is expected to be completed by the end of 2012. The Record of Decision is expected in the Fall of 2013. Right-of-way and permit acquisition can then begin." http://www.sehsr.org/history.html

There is plenty of other stuff in need of funding. It's hard to keep track of what has already received ARRA funding, but the Charlotte maintenance facility is only partially funded, Charlotte Gateway Station, additional motive power and rolling stock for increased service, and converting the Viaduct building in Raleigh to the new station are the first things that come to mind. I'm not sure what the status of double-tracking from Charlotte to Greensboro is. Not sure what the most recent news is on the CSX/NS grade separation either. There is also the Positive Train Control implementation . . . need to research that some more.

The improvements from Richmond to Washington are certainly needed, and will benefit passenger traffic to and from North Carolina. Those may be more "shovel-ready" as well.

NCDOT is still looking at a 2018-2022 window for passenger traffic on the S-Line. Depending on funding, of course.

The following projects that are currently and their status:

P-5208: 14 miles of double track and 4 grade separations between Concord and Charlotte

P-5206: 10 miles of double track and 3 grade separations between Salisbury and Kannapolis

C-4901: 4 miles of double track and 2 grade separations between Thomasville and Lexington

U-4716A/C: Grade separation at Hopson Road and 3.5 mile long siding between Durham and Morrisville

P-5205: 1.5 mile siding and curve realignment between Graham and Haw River (Alamance County)

I-2304AE: Curve realignment at the Yadkin River Bridge

P-5005: 3 crossovers along the CSXT A-line between Weldon and Rocky Mount

P-5204: Grade Separation at McLeansville Road in Guilford County

P-5201: Grade Separation at Morrisville Parkway in Cary

P-2918: Charlotte Maintenance Facility (partially-funded)

P-5002: CSXT/NS Mainline Grade Separation in Charlotte

P-3803: Raleigh Passenger Train Station (partially-funded)

P-3800: Mainline Track Improvements from Charlotte Wye (W. Charlotte) to Orr Road (unfunded but going through environmental studies)

P-4900: Pembroke Connector Track between the A-line and the Wilmington Subdivision in Robeson County

P-5004: Goldsboro Connector Track between the NS H-line and the CSX W-W Subdivision in Goldsboro (unfunded but going through environmental studies)

[ERJ170]

Would it not make sense to offer Raleigh-Fuquay-Sanford-Fayetteville service? I mean, that's frequently I traveled and have 3-4 daily 2 or 3 car service could be a benefit for the area.. Or am I just thinking crazy?

Could it be done if equipment was available? Would there be enough traffic? Just seems like a natural train route if we were in the UK or something..

Just a thought..

[kermit]

Could it be done if equipment was available?

Nope. A direct would could not include Sanford. Trafficwise maybe -- there are lots of 20 year olds at Ft Bragg who wan't to drink and hit on the ladies in the Triangle -- lots of them are carless. That said, the route would make sense if it is the first half of Raleigh-Wilmington (via Pembroke / Lumberton).

[ERJ170]

Raleigh to Fayetteville, in my opinion, could work without the Wilmington leg. I don't know how much traffic there is between Fayetteville and Wilmington, but I think Raleigh to Fayetteville could do well alone.

I believe they choose the Raleigh to Goldsboro to Wilmington route over the Fayetteville option.

[orulz]

NCDOT did study a route via Fayetteville to Wilmington. It would go Raleigh-Selma-Fayetteville-Lumberton-Wilmington (with maybe a few stops in between like Dunn?) In fact, I don't think they've necessarily chosen the route through Goldsboro over the route through Fayetteville. The report studying it suggested that both might be worthwhile. As such, they have new track connections at Selma, Goldsboro, and Lumberton necessary to make the services work all in the Rail Division's capital improvement plan.

[Otto]

The struggle with RGH-FAY-WIL is capacity along the CSX A-line. There are two double track sections between Selma and Fayetteville; Four Oaks and Dunn. Depending on the Frequency of the Wilmington service and the growth of CSX traffic, you may be looking at some real congestion problems. Once the Virginia Avenue Tunnel in D.C. is heightened, CSX will be able to grab a larger portion of the north-south truck traffic off of I-95 because they will be able to use double stack container service and offer much lower rates between FL and Maryland. CSX will most likely require additional capacity, similar to what is occuring on the Greensboro to Charlotte corridor where all of the single-track sections.

The NCRR H-line is a low volume railroad east of Raleigh....thus congestion is not an issue. Now, east of Selma, track condition is an issue. The Selma to Goldsboro section will require an upgrade of its track classification and atleast one passing siding. NCDOT has a project, P-5004, which will construct the track necessary to connect the H-line to the CSX W&W subdivision and access the proposed Goldsboro Union Station. The W&W will also require upgrades between Contentnea (south of Wilson where it meets the A-line) and Wilmington in order to support passenger service. This includes new track b/n Wallace and Castle Hayne, construction of a new NE Cape Fear River Bridge, passing sidings, and new track through the grade separated section of downtown Wilmington connecting to the proposed Wilmington MMTC.