North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[cowboy_wilhelm]

The following projects that are currently and their status:

P-5208: 14 miles of double track and 4 grade separations between Concord and Charlotte

P-5206: 10 miles of double track and 3 grade separations between Salisbury and Kannapolis

C-4901: 4 miles of double track and 2 grade separations between Thomasville and Lexington

U-4716A/C: Grade separation at Hopson Road and 3.5 mile long siding between Durham and Morrisville

P-5205: 1.5 mile siding and curve realignment between Graham and Haw River (Alamance County)

I-2304AE: Curve realignment at the Yadkin River Bridge

P-5005: 3 crossovers along the CSXT A-line between Weldon and Rocky Mount

P-5204: Grade Separation at McLeansville Road in Guilford County

P-5201: Grade Separation at Morrisville Parkway in Cary

P-2918: Charlotte Maintenance Facility (partially-funded)

P-5002: CSXT/NS Mainline Grade Separation in Charlotte

P-3803: Raleigh Passenger Train Station (partially-funded)

P-3800: Mainline Track Improvements from Charlotte Wye (W. Charlotte) to Orr Road (unfunded but going through environmental studies)

P-4900: Pembroke Connector Track between the A-line and the Wilmington Subdivision in Robeson County

P-5004: Goldsboro Connector Track between the NS H-line and the CSX W-W Subdivision in Goldsboro (unfunded but going through environmental studies)

Thank you for listing all of those projects. I saw where the contracts for P-5208 and P-5206 are tentatively scheduled for letting next July.

With the discussion about passenger service to Wilmington, has anything been mentioned recently about Asheville? I have not read anything new in a decade.

[rooster8]

The last I heard about the Asheville service is that the state is doing some environmental studies. I've just about given up on seeing it in my lifetime and I'm in my 30's

[kermit]

Amtrak has released a $7 billion plan to update Union Station in DC to accomdate the next generation of rail. While its clear that the dollar amount is absurd, it is interesting to see discussion of _some_ of the things that will need to change in order to accomdate the SEHSR. To be clear the SEHSR is just a minor component of this project.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/amtrak-to-propose-7-billion-overhaul-at-union-station/2012/07/24/gJQApGwi7W_story.html

[orulz]

What's proposed as Phase 4, where they mention SEHSR, is actually far, far more than would be required to actually support SEHSR as it's currently envisioned.

The existing run-through tracks and present station configuraion is certainly enough for the four or five SEHSR trains per day that current plans call for. The station configuration would probably even be enough for hourly service all day, if they quad-track the former RF&P between the entrance to First Street Tunnel and Alexandria (including widening Long Bridge) and triple track from there to Richmond.

What Phase 4 would address is probably some extension of 220mph train service all the way through to Atlanta (which would make Atlanta-NY merely a 6 hour train ride.)

[sax184]

The last I heard about the Asheville service is that the state is doing some environmental studies. I've just about given up on seeing it in my lifetime and I'm in my 30's

I'd say there's still hope for AVL in your lifetime, though later on. It's probably the off-the-NCRR-line destination that gets the biggest boost if SEHSR is successfully implemented. AVL is improving its transit while the Triad is increasingly failing (see PART topic in Triad forum). The WNC stations are more or less already refurbished, and the line is mostly active. The Wilmington line has more challenges on these counts. Also, 39 inches of sea level rise ain't helping down there.

The other wildcard is that I-40 is likely to be a toll road from end to end of NC by 2025, and while there is more than one way from Raleigh to Wilmington, that's not really the same without heavy travel time additions to AVL. This will change the calculus for intercity bus and rail in NC like nothing has in generations. Gas prices will also play a role, but if cars go electric, it's hard to figure out the impact of that.

But SEHSR needs to be open first. Once CLT-WAS has a fast, reliable, rail link connected to the NEC, even if it is diesel-powered and at 110 or lower top speeds, it will build a constituency for expanding the network in-state. SC and GA are not going to play ball, so we might as well concentrate on connecting to VA and within our borders. AVL is a great next step.

Edited August 7, 2012 by transitman

[Otto]

Raleigh Union Station Phase 1 Website is active....

http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/raleighunionstation/

[tozmervo]

The Carolinian is scheduled to return to Charlotte at 8:12pm, would y'all say that usually happens? Just wondering how often it might run much later than that.

[kermit]

The Carolinian is scheduled to return to Charlotte at 8:12pm, would y'all say that usually happens? Just wondering how often it might run much later than that.

Over the past year the Carolinian has been on-time (e.g. within 30 minutes) for 72% of its trips

http://www.amtrak.com/carolinian-piedmont-train&mode=perf&overrideDefaultTemplate=OTPPageVerticalRouteOverview

That said this record has been much worse in the past. Generally the delays are generated on the CSX section of the trip between Selma and Richmond. The casue of these delays (generally either dispatching or heat-related issues) have been migigated recently so the odds of a trip sticking to schedule are better now than they were in July.

The odds of the Carolinian sticking to schedule are (IMO) pretty good once you are south of Selma.

[orulz]

In the latest Raleigh City Council agenda, it is mentioned that NCDOT has a proposal to fill the "funding gap" necessary after the $21 million TIGER grant and build all of Union Station Phase I. TIGER funded the track work and platforms.

Presumably, NCDOT and the City of Raleigh will come together to do The Viaduct Bldg rehab and the West Street extension.

This plus the recent RFQ for Gateway Station indicates that DOT is finally looking into doing something about the outdated stations in the state's two largest cities.

[ajfunder]

Its about time, Charlotte sorely needs Gateway Station. The current station 2 miles out of center city is a complete embarrassment to NCDOT rail program and it is terrible gateway to this city. Its good to see Raleigh Union Station moving forward and once that station is completed hopefully more resources will be devoted to Gateway Station. The grade seperation project kicks off in about two years, and once finished we might finally get to see a respectable train station built in the Queen City. Despite the tough economic times, I have met a few developers who are trying to redevelop 3rd and 4th ward, and they can't wait to get the oppurtunity to help develop CGS and the surrounding area once complete. Sorry for my rant, I am just tired of the CGS project getting pushed back.

[kermit]

Does Virgina's future work on the Norfolk-Richmond corridor take care of the South Richmond repairs necessary to get trains from NC into downtown Richmond? In other words, will those improvements bankroll finally getting the NC trains into RVM rather than RVR?

http://www.examiner.com/article/high-speed-rail-comes-one-step-closer-to-reality-and-not-a-second-too-late

[tozmervo]

Over the past year the Carolinian has been on-time (e.g. within 30 minutes) for 72% of its trips

http://www.amtrak.co...alRouteOverview

That said this record has been much worse in the past. Generally the delays are generated on the CSX section of the trip between Selma and Richmond. The casue of these delays (generally either dispatching or heat-related issues) have been migigated recently so the odds of a trip sticking to schedule are better now than they were in July.

The odds of the Carolinian sticking to schedule are (IMO) pretty good once you are south of Selma.

Well, reckon I'll be finding out for sure just how on time next weekend. I'm taking the Carolinian, round trip, to NYC. I'm open to any tips on how to make this a successful journey!

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Well, reckon I'll be finding out for sure just how on time next weekend. I'm taking the Carolinian, round trip, to NYC. I'm open to any tips on how to make this a successful journey!

• Get a window seat - No problem, since you're departing Charlotte. Seats are unassigned on the Carolinian.
  
• Take your own food and drink - The cafe car is pricey with mediocre food. Food IS allowed on the train, so bring all you can carry.
  
• Power outlets are available at all seats, so bring your laptop.
  
• Wi-Fi is available - It can be spotty, but probably better now. I haven't been on the Carolinian since last November, and it was new then.
  
• Bring headphones, even if you don't listen to anything - Sometimes you'll sit next to someone who wants to tell you about their grandbabies for the next 10 hours. Or, if you do listen to something, it can drown out any loud people or children (there's always one).
  
• However, it doesn't hurt to be friendly towards the person sitting next to you. You'll have to depend on them to guard your belongings when you use the bathroom.
  
• Only leave your seat between stations - This way, no one can slip off the train with any of your belongings. I have never felt like this was an issue, but you never know.
  
• Have a schedule - You can figure out if you're behind schedule, by how much, and if you're making up time. Both of my trips on the southbound Silver Star to Raleigh, we were an hour late around Richmond. The conductor (both times) said we'd be about an hour late getting into Raleigh. However, we HAULED through southern Virginia and on to Rocky Mount, and cut the delay down to twenty-thirty minutes. This of course varies on the day of the week and time. My two times on the northbound Carolinian, we were usually late getting to Washington (again, delays through Virginia), but we made up time on the NEC and I arrived in Trenton a little early. Northbound stops picking up passengers around Washington (since there is ample regional/commuter service), and I'm pretty sure late trains are given priority to make their destinations.
  

I'll add on if I think of anything else. Overall, I think it's a pleasant experience. You can read, watch movies, or just enjoy the scenery. It can make for a long day, but it sure beats driving.

Edited September 14, 2012 by cowboy_wilhelm

[kermit]

Obstacles blocking a new third track around Quantico VA have been cleared and the project is now set to proceed

http://washingtonexaminer.com/squabble-resolved-blocking-northern-virginia-75m-high-speed-rail-stimulus-project/article/2508061?custom_click=rss#.UFdFWyKLKfu

This is part of the SEHSR network and will speed the Carolinian on its trip into the NE Corridor. This is how the SEHSR project will get built, one small chunk at a time.

[tozmervo]

boy howdy, thanks for the tips! will be hitting up the library for some audiobook action. will definitely pack some food, and I'll make sure my cell phone is ready to track wifi to a strong spot when I board.

[ajfunder]

Suprised no one has mentioned this, it appears NCDOT got $26.5 million for improvements between Petersburg, Va. and Raleigh, NC.

http://www.rtands.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/ncdot-awarded-265-million-to-alleviate-passenger-rail-congestion.html?channel=281

[orulz]

Seems like this is for the crossovers on the CSX A-line. Three are planned, at Enfield, Armstrong (wherever that is), and South Weldon. These are meant to allow passenger trains to get around each other and freight trains. The northbound Carolinian and Palmetto usually pass their southbound counterparts in this vicinity.

[kermit]

Its interesting (to me) that this particular upgrade made it onto the federal funding list. Since the Carolinian will (hopefully) stop using this line when / if the S line becomes a shortcut from Raleigh to Richmond I don't see a huge need for these crossovers. I do understand that the route will still serve Florida and Savannah trains but, from the perspective of NC riders this seems like a non-story.

Could it be better understood as a means of shoveling some federal money to CSX?

PS: didn't the tea partiers in Raleigh pass a new law saying that all federally funded rail improvements had to be run through them first?

[ajfunder]

PS: didn't the tea partiers in Raleigh pass a new law saying that all federally funded rail improvements had to be run through them first?

I think it is only if NCDOT has to put up matching funds of any sort.

[orulz]

I think it is only if NCDOT has to put up matching funds of any sort.

This was part of the stimulus package submitted in 2010. FRA insisted on strict standards for measuring performance so that most of the benefits of this project can accrue to passenger rail. Only now have CSX and FRA come to an agreement on this issue. There was a drop-dead date of September 30th; if agreement was not reached by then, the money would have no longer been available.

The new law prohibiting high speed rail matching funds specifically excludes the ARRA projects that had already been awarded funding.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Its interesting (to me) that this particular upgrade made it onto the federal funding list. Since the Carolinian will (hopefully) stop using this line when / if the S line becomes a shortcut from Raleigh to Richmond I don't see a huge need for these crossovers. I do understand that the route will still serve Florida and Savannah trains but, from the perspective of NC riders this seems like a non-story.

I doubt the Carolinian will change routes. With the funding spent for station improvements in Selma, Wilson and Rocky Mount, NCDOT isn't going to reduce service on that route. Plus the taxpayers there still deserve an option, and have a convenient train schedule. I can see the Silver Star switching (back) over to the S-Line, though.

However, I imagine HSR service will take out a big chunk of Carolinian ridership if this occurs. There will probably be at least one or two HSR trains going beyond Washington, and you're looking at a morning departure, similar to the Carolinian. I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure the majority of riders on the northbound Carolinian board in Charlotte, Greensboro, and Raleigh. The Carolinian could end up mostly empty.

It is possible the Carolinian and Piedmont service can be modified. Think one or two of the Piedmont service extended to Rocky Mount (then same-day return trip to Charlotte) and a Virginia/Northeast extension from Richmond to Selma (and return). By essentially splitting the Carolinian, you can maintain service and connectivity to those communities without having a redundant train service.

Edited September 24, 2012 by cowboy_wilhelm

[orulz]

If and when the S-line is reactivated, I agree that it's likely the Silver Star would be routed over that line. Rocky Mount loses service, but they still have the Silver Meteor which is on a somewhat similar schedule. The only place they lose direct access to is Tampa.

As for the Carolinian, I bet that NCDOT would turn that into a Charlotte-Rocky Mount train. No need to extend a Regional to Selma; people living in Rocky Mount, Wilson, and Selma going to the northeast can still ride the Palmetto, which runs on a very similar schedule to the Carolinian anyway.

So Rocky Mount gets cut back from 8 to 5 trains per day, but when you look at the schedule, what is lost is mostly redundant service - so on balance, surprisingly little convenience is lost.

[tozmervo]

So here's my fun Carolinian-weekend summary. Friday to NYC, Monday back to CLT. My overall experience was generally in-line with what's been said before. Basically, Virginia sucks.

Northbound, we were dead on schedule until just...before...Peters...bur...g. The lateness was far and away made up by tearing up the NEC, getting us to New York a full 45 minutes ahead of schedule. (Indeed, I guess they don't count on anyone catching that train north of DC.) I was pleasantly surprised with how smooth service was in NC and enjoyed getting to see several towns I'd never seen before. I wish Rocky Mount the best of luck with their downtown improvement projects.

Southbound, we were already 15 behind coming into DC. By the time we made it to Selma, that delay had increased to 45 minutes or so. I'm still not quite sure how it was managed, but we ended up only being a couple minutes late arriving in Charlotte.

Couple thoughts on the service itself -

First, so much more comfortable than flying. Very friendly crew. Loved the outlets and leg room. Lousy wireless.

I am still a little weirded out by the otherwise archaic-seeming system of marking off customer destinations. Scribbles on scrap paper just.. um, I dunno. It's 2012. Let's figure something out. The other thing was very uneven application of various "rules" (or maybe suggestions, not sure) by staff, as well as inconsistent announcements. One crew made virtually no stop announcement, where another crew would announce it three times by different crew members AND again walking through the car. I mean, passenger trains do have a European feel, but let's try to be more reliable

[orulz]

Amtrak Thruway bus service starts up next week in Eastern NC. The routes will be:

Wilson-Greenville-New Bern-Havelock-Morehead City

Wilson-Goldsboro-Kinston-Jacksonville-Wilmington

They will meet with the Palmetto at Wilson because both the north and southbound trains are scheduled to pass through Wilson at roughly the same time. Either route is roughly a 3-hour trip.

[rooster8]

Excellent news. Is this completely funded by Amtrak? I haven't seen any reference to state participation. Now only if they would come to the west...