North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit

[mallguy]

^I suspect that mallguy is talking about track maintance and Orluz is talking about capital improvements....

 

Both require NS approval and cooperation.

[kermit]

Sen Fletcher 'credit card' Hartsell has introduced a bill that thankfully stops short of NCRR privatization. The bill essentially requires the NCRR to begin paying a dividend to the state (and pay some dividends in arrears). It also requires the NCRR to sell some off corridor parcels it owns.

 

While I would much prefer to see the dividend income go to track upgrades this is (IMO) a much better course of action than selling off the entire RR to NS.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/04/3833225/sen-hartsell-files-bill-to-tap.html

[orulz]

The dividend isn't all that bad, and though it will slow down the NCRR's capital plan somewhat, most of the money for improvements has been coming from state and federal sources anyway.

 

I actually think that forcing NCRR to sell some of these parcels might be a good thing. In particular, 218 S Brevard in Charlotte is a completely empty lot right next to the 3rd street Light Rail station in the center of Charlotte. Putting it into play could yield some very interesting development prospects. I am also not really sure why NCRR has seen fit to hold onto this lot as long as they have, particularly since this part of their corridor has been converted over to LRT some time ago.

[kermit]

There is a nice proportional circle map showing Amtrak ridership at every station in the system. While NC is certainly not part of the core network our stations manage to do pretty well relative to many others. Its pretty remarkable given the conditions of the Raleigh and Charlotte stations. 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mulad/8438870763/in/faves-beyonddc/

[thetrick]

There is a nice proportional circle map showing Amtrak ridership at every station in the system. While NC is certainly not part of the core network our stations manage to do pretty well relative to many others. Its pretty remarkable given the conditions of the Raleigh and Charlotte stations. 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mulad/8438870763/in/faves-beyonddc/

Nice map.

 

I imagine that being just south of the busiest rail corridor in the US had quite a bleed over effect. I have always felt that one of the biggest obstacles to rail transit is that much of the country does not have a rail transit culture, it is not an option they ever consider. I think NC has had enough yankees move down who have that culture and it has infected the locals (being one of these yankees). It's clear we have the critical mass to be the next logical extension of the north east corridor.

 

TH

[kermit]

The Richmond mainstreet station to Petersburg track improvements are estimated to cost $469 million, roughly the same amount as the ARRA funded NCRR improvements. Good thing Virginia needs these for their (now flourishing) Norfolk service

 

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/area-examines-high-speed-rail-details-but-prospects-remain-uncertain/article_0e1d987c-a018-589f-8c56-586c64732db1.html

Edited February 26, 2013 by kermit

[kermit]

While its not NC specific there is a nice report on Amtrak's future viability by the Brookings Institution today:

 

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2013/03/01%20passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer/passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer.pdf

 

 

Over the last 15 years, Amtrak ridership has grown 55 percent, outpacing population growth by a factor of three and it’s the fastest growing means
of domestic transport.....

[kermit]

I saw the biggest consit on the Piedmont -ever- today (Friday). There were four coaches plus two combi cars (one at each end) pulled by the city of Asheville. I think that would be near the capacity of the Carolinian.

Unfortunately I only saw it while it was wying at Atando so I don't know if all the cars were in use (CIAA traffic perhaps) or if some were just out for a run.

 

EDIT: I made a special trip to check the size of the other equipment set in Charlotte on Sunday. This time there were four coaches plus on combi car pulled by the city of Burlington. In addition the parking lot at the Charlotte station was moderately empty (suggesting the additional traffic had a Charlotte destination).  The CIAA tournament has been going on all week and ended last night, it looks to me like it generated a significant amount of additional traffic.

 

I am very pleased to see that NCDOT is willing and able to add and subtract coaches to meet demand. This seems to be a much better system than they have for the Downeaster and the Cascades where they have (essentially) fixed equipment sets and experience frequent sellouts. I think the decision to refurb heritage equipment sets was a good one. If only NCDOT had the cash to install wifi in the Piedmont units.....

Edited March 3, 2013 by kermit

[orulz]

Durham has been recently undergoing a Traffic Separation Study where they plan out improvements to railroad crossings on the NCRR. The study is going through a second round of public meetings soon.

 

Based on this presentation it seems like they are planning a major improvement downtown. For every crossing between Gregson (of 11foot8.com fame) and Roxboro, the at-grade crossings will be separated and the existing separations will be improved (presumably to improve clearances.)

 

It sounds like maybe they are planning a major railroad elevation project since that is probably the only practical way to achieve so many grade separations in such a compact area. Outside of downtown, every single crossing in Durham County will be separated or closed with the exception of Buchanan Blvd and Driver Street (though none of the grade separations are planned within the next 7 years.)

 

This goes to show that NCDOT means business about grade separations and corridor improvements, though it remains to see if this will ever be funded and built.

[kermit]

This doesn't sound good:

 

It’s unclear whether the state’s current level of support will continue under the new administration of Gov. Pat McCrory. During his previous tenure as Charlotte mayor, McCrory championed that city’s light rail system, but state government faces steep budget challenges that could make passenger trains a target.

 

McCrory’s press secretary, Crystal Feldman, said residents will have to wait to learn whether any rail service is on the chopping block.

 

http://www.news-record.com/home/871405-63/greensborohigh-point-passenger-rail-on

 

And in other news, weekend consists on the Piedmont are getting huge. There were 4 coaches, one combine and the lounge plus power on the 76 today (Friday), they all looked pretty full as they left Charlotte. I am a little concerned that they won't have enough equipment when the new frequency starts.

 

http://www.bytrain.org/docs/ncdotrailequipmentlist2010.pdf

 

EDIT: A got a look at 76 today (Sunday 3/31) while it was in the Atando wye. Five coaches plus the combi. Its been a while since I have ridden a weekend Piedmont but it certainly looks like ridership is growing substantially.

Edited March 31, 2013 by kermit

[New Name]

This past Saturday night I was driving past the Amtrak Station on Tryon in Charlotte when (I assume a train was due in) and it was absolute gridlock. Lines of cars trying to get into the parking lot from Tryon stopping traffic on both sides. The lot was full. A good sign, yes - and a sign of need for upgrades (Gateway Station).

[kermit]

While I am not optimistic that the President's budget will get passed Yonah Freemark has a nice discussion about the proposed high-level of funding for inter-city rail found in the proposal at the Transport Politic. With regards to NC The paragraph below caught my eye:

 

The Administration’s proposal practically boils with ambition. Grants for new and improved rail lines would be heavily oriented (70 to 85%) towards “core express” alignments, which include only corridors where electric trains operating hourly at speeds of 125 mph and above run on their own, dedicated tracks. This says a lot about the Administration’s interest in focusing its energies on the “true” high-speed corridors, which at this time are only in development for California and the Northeast.

 

This 'core express' approach sounds tailor made to fund additional tracks and electrification for the RF&P from  DC to Richmond (and possibly solving many problems in downtown Richmond). If the rail funding actually makes it into a real budget I would certainly expect Anthony Foxx to see the value of RF&P improvements beyond VA. In addition it appears that VA actually may be able to provide some matching funds to the project as well thanks to their new transportation funding strategy.

 

No doubt its a longshot, but I do see a chance for federal funding of a very expensive improvement in VA that would make a huge difference for future passenger rail in NC.

[thetrick]

 Anthony Foxx to see the value of RF&P improvements beyond VA. In addition it appears that VA actually may be able to provide some matching funds to the project as well thanks to their new transportation funding strategy.

 

 

 

I wonder if the frosty relationship Foxx has with with NC gov will hurt us if he tries to hand down any money for projects as US Sec Trans. Seems the trend in the south is to take joy in throwing money back to the fed, and now with the all GOP NC gov I see this being even more of a problem. 

 

I don't put it past some people to give up free money for the sake of ideology. (while not all money is as free as it looks)

 

TH

[kermit]

I am relatively certain that Gov Pat McPope would turn down any federal cash for passenger rail in NC, which is why I think Virginia is a more efficient option for federal investment in passenger rail at the moment.

[orulz]

The southern extension of the SEHSR from Charlotte to Atlanta is getting some attention lately thanks to funding from the feds and Georgia DOT.

 

Study web page

 

There are six alternatives:

1. Norfolk Southern
2. I-85
3. Greenfield HSR via SC Upstate region
4. CSX via Athens and Rock Hill
5. CSX via Augusta and Columbia
6. I-20/I-77

I think Alternatives 4-6 lose out pretty badly based on the extra distance.

 

The Greenfield HSR route scores the highest, but also has the worst station locations at intermediate cities. The Norfolk Southern route has the best station locations, going through every downtown along the way, but is also curvy and slow and would presumably be expensive to straighten. I-85 is Not as fast as a greenfield route, and the stations don't make it downtown, but at least the stations aren't way outside Greenville and Spartanburg.

 

All routes terminate at Gateway in Charlotte, and 1-3 also have stations at CLT.

 

In my opinion the ideal route would be the greenfield route, with a diversion that gets as close as possible to downtown Greenville, whether by I-85, some railroad alignment, or something else, like I-185 to I-385..

 

But in honesty, the greenfield route would only make sense if high speed rail north of Charlotte is also built to a pretty high standard. There was some talk of a future straight line greenfield route between Charlotte and Raleigh, and we all know the route from Raleigh to Richmond is being designed for speeds in excess of its original planned operating speed of 110mph.

 

There is a meeting tomorrow at 2327 Tipton Drive in Charlotte from 3-6pm about this study.

[kermit]

Good news for NC passenger rail (IMO). Virgina Senator Mark Warner has been appointed chair of the surface transportation subcomittee (replacing Lautenberg). Any money he can steer for DC-Richmond main street improvements may have a bigger impact on NC rail than anything we can do at the moment.

[cowboy_wilhelm]

And bad news for NC passenger rail. I'm surprised it's taken this long.

 

New transportation money formula could doom Triangle trains

Edited June 11, 2013 by cowboy_wilhelm

[orulz]

All is not lost; the house's bill was somewhat friendlier to transit - any transit project spanning multiple counties qualifies for regional funding, although I would like to see passenger rail projects considered at the statewide level, too.

 

They still have to reconcile the differences between the house and senate bills, and approve the reconciled bill in both houses before it's official, and who knows what's going to happen there.

[NCMike1981]

i've noticed upon following the news that on many issues the house seems a bit more moderate when compared to the senate, although still much more right wing than the GA in years past. Perhaps they will be the voice of reason on some issues, such as mass transit. McCrory is a bit of a dissapointment as he campaigned about being so moderate but the only thing I've seen him take a stand about is, oddly enough, the whole Dix park issue...otherwise he seems to go along with whatever the GA proposes

[kermit]

Anyone heard anything about how NC's PRIIA negotiations with Amtrak are going? I have heard internet rumors that its not going well, hoping to get better info here.

 

(PRIIA is the legislation which requires states to pay for the costs of its short-distance trains by October 1 -- this shift of subsidy applies to the Carolinian as well as the Piedmont service but not the Stars or the Crescent since they are 'long distance' trains)

[orulz]

I am not really sure what the new rules are, but for both the Carolinian and the Piedmont, the ticket revenue plus NC subsidy covers basically 100% of the cost of operating the trains, so I can't think of how there could be a big gap. There is negligible capital cost to Amtrak for the Piedmont since NC owns all its own equipment and it does not run on Amtrak trackage. The only capital for Amtrak would be involved in equipment at the stations (Quik trak TVMs, wheelchair lifts, etc) so there's really no gap there. There is a capital cost to Amtrak for running the Carolinian since it's run with a Genesis and Amfleets. I'm not sure whether tickets plus NC subsidy covers this, so if there's a gap anywhere, this is it, and I don't think it would be a large one (Several hundred thousand per year??).

[kermit]

Based on seeing #76 leaving Charlotte yesterday and #73/74 sitting on the platform in Charlotte this morning it appears that the NCDOT is testing a push-pull setup. Other evidence of the test includes the combi car was on the rear of the train yesterday (its always in the front with the normal setup) and the complete absence of Piedmonts on the Atando wye lately.

I have not been close enough to see what they do with the seats.

Edit: through a strange turn of events I ended up on the 76 today. There was not a push-pull setup but there was a lounge / baggage car is at each end however both were turned the wrong way so there is no lounge access (??!?).

The tranin is also sold out today, I had to grovel with the conductor to get on in Kannapolis.

Edited August 30, 2013 by kermit

[thetrick]

Finally some visible work on the ARRA improvements, or what the DOT now calls PIP (Piedmont Improvement Program). I was taking the family to get some dinner last night and noticed signs up that they are closing Caldwell Rd at the grade crossing with NS in a couple days.

 

Did a search on NCDOT site and looks like recently the have awarded a whole bunch of contracts that are starting NOW!

 

NCDOT Awards $24.9 Million Contract for Railbed Construction in Mecklenburg and Cabarrus Counties

 

NCDOT Awards $13.7 Million Contract for Grier Road over Norfolk Southern Railroad in Mecklenburg County

 

NCDOT Awards $4.9 Million Contract for Caldwell Road Grade Separation over Norfolk Southern Railroad in Cabarrus County

 

NCDOT Awards $3.4 Million Contract to Extend Caldwell Park Drive in Mecklenburg and Cabarrus Counties

 

NCDOT rail NEWS

 

 

I am very happy to see this with such a long absence of news. It's going to be an interesting couple years in the university area for transportation with this the BLE and finishing 485

 

TH

Edited September 4, 2013 by thetrick

[kermit]

Its less than two weeks to the deadline and NC still hs not reached a PRIIA agreement with Amtrak on funding the Carolinian and Piedmont......

http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/11173137/loss-of-rail-service-looms (the article is about NY, it does mention that NC has not yet reached an agreement)

Anybody have any inside info?

[rooster8]

Just read the same article.  I haven't read any media coverage of the situation in NC. It would be a shame for NC to take a step backwards in regards to passenger rail.