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North Carolina Intercity Rail Transit


Noneck_08

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It looks like The Carolinian will be out of service for a few days due to track work in NOVA.

This is a very exciting piece of work going on- VRE, CSX and VDOT are getting close to completing the work on the new Quantico Bridge.

(click link above for project updates)

The Quantico Bridge is one of several major choke points for freight and passenger traffic in Virginia that effects trains traveling between NC and the Northeast Corridor. Once this bridge is completed, there will be two tracks across Quantico Creek and the ENTIRE railroad between Washington DC and Richmond will be double-tracked.

This webpage outlines other improvements that VDOT is working on to improve reliability between DC and Richmond, which will help trains bound for NC.

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  • 3 weeks later...

  • 2 weeks later...

I took the Carolinian routes #73 and 74 to CLT and back recently. I really enjoyed the trip... nice accomodations, timely stops, much less stress that driving. On the return trip, there were some signaling problems between High Point and Greensboro, which apparently is single tracked, so we had to approach at reduced speeds and arrived about 40 min late. Delays such as those really point to the need for double-tracking upgrades of the entire Charlotte to Raleigh NCRR rail corridor.

EDIT: Ah Ha! I went back thru this topic and found that DOT Rail is planning a project to double-track the High Point to Greensboro segment in 2008! Terrific!

Kannapolis, Salisbury, High Point, and Greensboro sure do have some nice stations.

Its apparent that the Rail Division has made some nice upgrades to these smaller facilities before doing major (expensive) new projects in Charlotte, Raleigh, and Durham--which are all in poor condition IMO.

I suspect Charlotte's passenger figures will also improve when they move to the new Uptown Gateway Station. The N. Tryon station is out of date and feels very isolated from Uptown, despite being only about 1-2 miles away. The new Gateway Station, combined with CATS and Greyhound facilties will be a big boost for rail service IMO.

cmmaerial.jpg

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I for one really wish that the NC Legislature really took to NC rail transit and invested heavily... NC is such a great state for this... several large metro areas... beach, mountains... I can imagine a train service more like the ones in eurpoe where you could head down to the station... purcahse a ticket at the window... leave a half hour later and be in charlotte, raleigh, greensboro, winston, wilmington or asheville a little while later... no driving...

NC has so much to offer if you take the state as a whole and if there was a convenient way to get from one place to another I really think that this would push NC onto a new level as far as competing for business and industry.

The services now are simply not convenient... Amtrac is obviously a P.O.S.... I would just love to see NC do it for itself and not rely on the feds to help... the rail system in the US is terrible... just build a two track system... obviously costly.. but I think the long term payoff would be huge.

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I for one really wish that the NC Legislature really took to NC rail transit and invested heavily... NC is such a great state for this... several large metro areas... beach, mountains... I can imagine a train service more like the ones in eurpoe where you could head down to the station... purcahse a ticket at the window... leave a half hour later and be in charlotte, raleigh, greensboro, winston, wilmington or asheville a little while later... no driving...

NC has so much to offer if you take the state as a whole and if there was a convenient way to get from one place to another I really think that this would push NC onto a new level as far as competing for business and industry.

The services now are simply not convenient... Amtrac is obviously a P.O.S.... I would just love to see NC do it for itself and not rely on the feds to help... the rail system in the US is terrible... just build a two track system... obviously costly.. but I think the long term payoff would be huge.

NCDOT is doing about as well as it can without a Federal partner. Obviously, allocating more money would speed up a variety of projects, but the fact remains that you can get federal matching funds to build a road, pave a bikepath, buy a bus, or build a transit line, but not for intercity rail. There is a current bill (S. 294) in the Senate that would remedy this situation. Richard Burr is a co-sponsor.

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This is an slightly old article, but nonetheless good news. NCDOT and the City of Wilmington are looking to purchase property for a new Multimodal Center on the west side of downtown (near Cape Fear Community College and the new PPD HQ) for around $9M. There is an exsiting rail bed right there with grade separations from auto traffic. I think the Raleigh to Wilmington line is a no-brainer, as is the future western NC service to Asheville. It may be a while until service gets going, but at least we are making an investment now. This is at least one of the areas in which NCDOT is somewhat progressive.

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I know the legislature has lots of funding priorities right now, but I wish they'd make room for the western rail service. It's time to make this happen. (The Wilmington line(s) should happen too, but I live in the west, so I'm a little prejudiced.)

The Western line is more likely to be completed first because it has already had most of the stations improved other than platforms, with local communities stepping up to provide at least 10% of the station costs.

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The Western line is more likely to be completed first because it has already had most of the stations improved other than platforms, with local communities stepping up to provide at least 10% of the station costs.

Plus I was parusing the Wilmington passenger rail feasibiltiy study and the total capital costs of the upgrade of either the Wilmington-Fayetteville-Raleigh (Total Passenger & Freight, basic: $69.7M, moderate: $76.8M, major: $129.9M) or Wilmington-Goldsboro-Raleigh (Total Passenger & Freight, basic: $119.4M, $134.4M, $188.9M) rail corridors is significant.

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Plus I was parusing the Wilmington passenger rail feasibiltiy study and the total capital costs of the upgrade of either the Wilmington-Fayetteville-Raleigh (Total Passenger & Freight, basic: $69.7M, moderate: $76.8M, major: $129.9M) or Wilmington-Goldsboro-Raleigh (Total Passenger & Freight, basic: $119.4M, $134.4M, $188.9M) rail corridors is significant.

^

Would this be the reason that a Charlotte-Wilmington, or an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington (or an Asheville-Charlotte) connection is absolutely off the table? It seems that direct links (rail or freeway) between those cities (apart from US :angry: 74) are absolutely not to be considered - I wonder if it's money, or if it's politics.

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^

Would this be the reason that a Charlotte-Wilmington, or an Asheville-Charlotte-Wilmington (or an Asheville-Charlotte) connection is absolutely off the table? It seems that direct links (rail or freeway) between those cities (apart from US :angry: 74) are absolutely not to be considered - I wonder if it's money, or if it's politics.

On rail, it's money. There are no active direct tracks between Charlotte and Asheville. Everything goes through Salisbury. Building a new line is incredibly expensive compared to upgrading existing track. Between Charlotte and Wilmington, there are tracks, but there's nobody (comparatively) to pick up! Studies by NCDOT show that compared to traversing the urban crescent along 85/40, the Charlotte-Wilmington direct path is much more expensive to operate, and carries far fewer people. It is questionable as to whether or not such a route would be faster, either- the tracks between Charlotte and Wilmington on the southern route are pretty poor.

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I'd say that theoretically a couple pretty decent routes from Asheville to Charlotte - the Clinchfield, which runs through Marion, Shelby, and Lincolnton, and an abandoned line (don't know its origins) through Conover and Lincolnton. The Clinchfield is a well-built, heavy duty railroad, but it's run by CSX and it's busy, so that's two strikes against it. The other one is, well, abandoned, so who knows the status of the right-of-way - restoring it would be costly.

For Charlotte to Wilmington, the route is clear; CSX has a route through Monroe, Hamlet, and Lumberton. The may be in relatively poor condition, but then again, the line is still used so it can't be that poor. It's probably in better shape than the line between Goldsboro and Wlimington. No reason why this should cost more than $150m or so.

The problem is, as transitman states, neither of these routes has the ridership potential of a route that serves the Triangle/Triad. Ridership is basically the deciding factor here, so unfortunately, that means that Charlotte gets fewer direct connections for now. :(

Perhaps a decade from now we'll hear talk of better connections from CLT.

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The Greensboro News&Record has an article about the restoration of double track between Greensboro and High Point. Expect to see some pretty significant on-time performance improvements for the Piedmont and Carolinian as a result of this project.

For a background on the single-tracking of the NS main line between Greensboro and Charlotte, read this post from railfan.net.

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I realize the Asheville service is a ways off (if ever), but I was wondering if you guys think that all the stations along the line will have scheduled stops or if they will be flag stops.

They'll be scheduled. None of the other services in NC operate any type of flag stopping. Occasionally, there are special event "stations" that exist for 1 day or 1 week. The only examples I can think of are the Lexington Barbecue Festival and the NC State Fair.

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Gastonia is a flag stop on the Crescent, but that's not a state-supported route. Nevertheless, if there are few enough passengers at Gastonia to warrant it being a flag stop, I can at least imagine the same treatment at some of the minor cities along the WNC route as well, such as Valdese, Old Fort, and Marion.

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I wish they would originate an evening train from Raleigh to Charlotte. The reasons I don't take the train there for a day trip (from Charlotte) is because of the horrible on time performance for the return train that originates in NY.

Have you or anyone else had good or bad experiences with this route? I am thinking about a 1-way trip later this month, and I don't want to be too late in Charlotte... hopefully not after 9:30-10pm. I wonder what the avg delays for this trip. Any input would be appreciated.

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Have you or anyone else had good or bad experiences with this route? I am thinking about a 1-way trip later this month, and I don't want to be too late in Charlotte... hopefully not after 9:30-10pm. I wonder what the avg delays for this trip. Any input would be appreciated.

Check out this tool for recent train performance. Train 79 is the Southbound Carolinian.

Based on looking at recent trips, I'd say you have a very good chance of getting to Charlotte more than 1 hour late, and a very good chance of arriving no more than 1:45 - 2 hours late. The scheduled arrival is 8:14 PM, so I'd count on arriving between 9:15 and 10:15 pm.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Virginia Legislature finally passed a $3+Billion Transportation bill that, in addition to highways, makes a bow to rail. It's not nearly enough, but perhaps work will pick up steam on the DC/RCA corridor as well as improvements in Richmond to add service to Main Street Station. All of this will benefit North Carolina and points south.

It has been noted that the Quantico bridge as well as the Elmont cross-over are in service on the CSX line.

Wish I could learn more about the Trans Dominion Express connecting Bristol to Lynchburg, thence via two different routes to DC and Richmond. I wonder if it's still under study?

Edited by burt
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I was just reading the Southeastern NC Passenger Rail report from 2005 and read this interesting paragraph:

In fact, Norfolk Southern already has expressed interest in operating passenger trains on their lines to the eastern

and western parts of the state. This interest marks a significant change in the company

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Metra in Chicago has three commuter lines that run on Union Pacific tracks, and one that runs on BNSF tracks. Rather than hiring their own engineers as they do on their other lines, or contracting with Amtrak or Connex to run the service, Metra contracts directly with UP and BNSF. On all four of these lines, while the equipment is owned by Metra, the engineers and conductors are trained, employed, and paid by the respective railroads. The lines are named after the companies that run them (BNSF, UP North, UP Northwest, UP West), and, If I recall correctly, the engineers and conductors even wear UP and BNSF badges on their uniforms.

This may have a secondary benefit of encouraging the railroads to handle the trains more efficiently. When trains are late on a UP line, everybody knows it's Union Pacific's fault. If the passengers complain, they complain to the conductor wearing a UP badge. That directly affects the company's public reputation. Contrast that with Amtrak, where Amtrak gets the blame for delays even when the fault lies entirely with the host railroad.

Of course Norfolk-Southern wouldn't take financial responsibility to run the trains on their own. They would operate the trains as a contracting agency. They might be offered bonuses based on ridership and performance, but they would act as contractors. I don't believe there's anywhere in the US where a commuter agency contracts directly with Norfolk Southern to run its trains, but NS is interested, and the precedent does exist.

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