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Atlantic Station-Atlanta's city within a city.


ironchapman

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I ran across this comment by a blogger:

The concept of locally-owned and operated business seems to be absent from this Atlantic Station enterprise. This is very important to the vitality of a city. Who cares if you can walk to Ikea or TGI Friday's? The profits go out of state, and they contribute nothing back to the "community." Local business is very important for real, functional urbanism. It means that things are made and sold locally, and the business can support a middle-class family living in town. Successful cities are complicated things. You can't build a bunch of condos and chain stores and call it a city, or expect it have the charm and resilience of America's great urban neighborhoods.

What do y'all think about that? In my opinion there is some truth in it, in that I have always had the sense that a big part of what makes urban neighborhoods charming is the hodgepodge of local businesses that have grown to serve the community.

I'm excited about Atlantic Station and it's certainly a vast improvement over an abandoned industrial site. It helps bring people back into the city and that's a step in the right direction, too. At this point, however, it doesn't "feel" much different than a sophisticated mall to me.

Perhaps in time more locally-owned and operated businesses will arise in and around Atlantic Station. I know it's brand new and that it takes time for things like this to happen. When they do, I believe they'll go a long way toward making Atlantic Station a more integral part of the urban fabric.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think about this.

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From an economic standpoint, that blogger is dead on. In reading about the detrimantel effects that Wal-Mart has on communities, I came across this statistic...

When a business is locally owned, 80% of the profits generated stay in the community, with an out of state owner, only 20% of the profits stay in the host community.

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I'm hoping that AS will spark more retail to open in the older parts of Midtown, because it is grossly underserved and a market waiting to be tapped. As much as I love the neighborhood individually-owned restaurants and the boutique stores (I hope they can stay in business), I'd like some more places that sell regular clothes or regular housewares/furniture, individually-owned or not.

I agree with your assessment of AS. I imagine that the years of preparation have driven the rent there high enough that most little mom n' pop shops aren't going to be able to afford it. It's a glorified shopping mall in some respects, but it does fill a need for people Intown.

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I ran across this comment by a blogger:

What do y'all think about that? In my opinion there is some truth in it, in that I have always had the sense that a big part of what makes urban neighborhoods charming is the hodgepodge of local businesses that have grown to serve the community.

I'm excited about Atlantic Station and it's certainly a vast improvement over an abandoned industrial site. It helps bring people back into the city and that's a step in the right direction, too. At this point, however, it doesn't "feel" much different than a sophisticated mall to me.

Perhaps in time more locally-owned and operated businesses will arise in and around Atlantic Station. I know it's brand new and that it takes time for things like this to happen. When they do, I believe they'll go a long way toward making Atlantic Station a more integral part of the urban fabric.

I'd be interested in hearing what others think about this.

Check out this thread in the Urban Design subforum.

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Check out this thread in the Urban Design subforum.

Thanks, krazeeboi, some interesting comments.

I was thinking about this and it may be that my feelings are influenced by my experience with "Old Urbanism." For example, downtown Atlanta used to be covered with thriving local shops. All our older suburbs -- Candler Park, Kirkwood, Inman Park, Midtown, West End, Buckhead, Lakewood, VA-Highland, Avondale Estates, Howell Station, College Park, Emory, etc. -- had important areas which supported and were supported by local merchants.

The second and third ring suburbs are like that, too, although their shops were more often located in strip centers and malls.

I know it is totally subjective, but to me this feels "real" in way that I can't find yet in Atlantic Station. I'm not singling out AS in particular, and as I said earlier I think it is great project and a major boost for the city. However, I'll contrast it with Glenwood Park, another New Urbanist development. To me Glenwood Park feels more like an organic neighborhood center, even though most of its storefronts are empty! I somehow sort of have the feeling that, "Well, somebody will move in here when there's a demand for it."

I'm going to shut up now, because I'm obviously venturing out into the horrifying quicksand of trying to define authenticity. Obviously these issues can all be argued in any number of different ways, because at bottom they are subjective. I don't think like things because they are old or rundown, but it also makes me feel uneasy when they seem too manufactured.

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I somewhat felt the same way when I visited AS, and I have the same feeling about many other New Urbanist developments, including one a few miles up the road from where I live. But the thing I like about AS is that it is at least located in an urban environment and not miles out the way off an interstate exit. Hopefully, as the city grows up around it, it will weave seamlessly into the urban fabric of downtown.

I do, however, wish the architecture was more "classic." Many of these New Urbanist developments look like they'll start molding within 10 years, like vinyl siding on a mobile home.

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I ran across this comment by a blogger:

What do y'all think about that? In my opinion there is some truth in it, in that I have always had the sense that a big part of what makes urban neighborhoods charming is the hodgepodge of local businesses that have grown to serve the community.

I agree with you. However, just because a business is a chain doesn't mean it's not locally owned and operated. Off the top of my head, Atlantic Station has 3 that don't appear to be local when they actually are.

Atlanta has no shortage of locally owned and operated businesses, even in Midtown and Downtown. Being a fashion addict, most of my favorite places to shop are locally owned. Most of the restaurants I love are locally owned. In most areas of the city, if you went down the street and counted locally owned vs. non-local businesses, you'd probably be suprised.

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Just by accident some of the stores at Atlantic Station are locally owned, only because there are retail chains headquartered here. I think the complaint is valid, but I also don't think it's reasonable to expect independantly owned stores at Atlantic Station. That is what neighborhood retail centers are for.

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Just by accident some of the stores at Atlantic Station are locally owned, only because there are retail chains headquartered here. I think the complaint is valid, but I also don't think it's reasonable to expect independantly owned stores at Atlantic Station. That is what neighborhood retail centers are for.

I completely agree. I was just pointing out that there is *some* local money in Atlantic Station. That every single dollar spent there is not going out of the state. I also believe it's a myth that Atlanta is all chains, or even mostly chain businesses. When I wrote that, I was thinking of Cheshire Bridge where nearly every business is independent. Convenience stores, furniture stores, diners... Even the strip clubs and bars are local. In some areas, the presence of national and regional chains have had a positive impact on local business. I think Atlanta has a pretty good mix for the most part.

OTOH, I can see how that complaint applies to developments like Edgewood. I think it has its place, but I do wonder what impact it has on businesses in the immediate area.

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Considering Edgewood is near my home - that is a question I have posed as well. Some neighbors have boycotted Edgewood, which I find hypocritical, b/c they are still willing to shop at Target, Kroger, etc. - just not at Edgewood. East Atlanta had already been in some decline for the past few years but is finally resurging again. Little Five Points, doesn't seem any different - though Claris, a feminist book store has gone out of business.

But what does L5P & EAV serve that Edgewood does as well? Not much, bongs, dildoes, piercings, Dead Kennedy t-shirts, Pabst Blue Ribbon out of the tap aren't big sells at Edgewood.

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Little Five Points, doesn't seem any different - though Claris, a feminist book store has gone out of business.

Unless something changed very recently, Charis didn't close. They were near the end recently (and in many ways still are), but people have been trying to keep it going.

I'll be curious to see how Edgewood changes the area in a few years.

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^ Thanks for the correction, I wouldn't know of course besides going by the store (don't go down that strip that much).

So far the effects of Edgewood has been on the Edgewood neighborhood - housing prices have skyrocketed & dramatically much of the neighborhood has been gentrified in the past 2 years. Last year there was an announcement of a housing company that planned on building 100 infill lots in the next few years.

Also - there is another residential retail center between Edgewood & Kirkwood on Hosea Williams Dr on your way to Oakhurst - it was mostly vacant less than 5 years ago but now has a coffee shop & a bar.

One other thing about Edgewood, it is hard to believe if or where the majority of the employees of all the stores worked at. The vast majority most likely live in the area & the Edgewood stores employ a massive number. Sure - they are low paying low skill low benefit jobs, but it's better than nothing.

I suppose I am a supporter of the retail development - it's not perfect (parking lots) but it incorporates enough new urbanism that it doesn't look & feel like a typical strip shopping center.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I went to Atlantic Station for the first time and really liked it! I was surprised how small the retail/restaurant part was, based on the hype I had heard, but I was still impressed. Attracting retailers to central Atlanta seems to have been very successful, especially given downtown's dismal retail scene lately (with Macy's closing), and there seemed to be a decent number of people there.

Any word on the sales per square foot for the Dillard's and other stores?

What's AS's peak crowd time- weekdays at lunchtime? Or weekends?

Thanks for any info; I hope this type of development takes off in other cities as well.

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I went to Atlantic Station for the first time and really liked it! I was surprised how small the retail/restaurant part was, based on the hype I had heard, but I was still impressed. Attracting retailers to central Atlanta seems to have been very successful, especially given downtown's dismal retail scene lately (with Macy's closing), and there seemed to be a decent number of people there.

Any word on the sales per square foot for the Dillard's and other stores?

What's AS's peak crowd time- weekdays at lunchtime? Or weekends?

Thanks for any info; I hope this type of development takes off in other cities as well.

From my experience, weekends of course are much busier and on Friday and Saturday evenings its been pretty packed when I've been there.

The area seems small but I think thats a plus right now. Also there are still several businesses yet to open including Target, K-LA, Ann Taylor, LA Fitness, Wolf Camera, Kingpin and additional restaurants Dolce, Geisha house, Fado Irish pub

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More development headed for Atlantic Station.

Most in the Home Park neighborhood were okay with the 166 Fowler Street development but many in the immediate Atlantic Station development cried foul. For those against, it was a losing battle as a 33 story residential tower was approved by the governing board for Home Park.

read the story here:

Home Park approves Fowler Street tower.

From the article

The Land-Use Committee of the Home Park Civic Improvement Association approved Monday a plan for a high-rise, mixed-use development at 166 Fowler Street. Seven members voted for the project, and four members voted in opposition to the complex.

Developer Sam Wilburn would construct the complex, which would include a 40-foot tall, 33-story tower. The tower had been the source of contention between Home Park residents and their neighbors in Atlantic Station at last week

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Most in the Home Park neighborhood were okay with the 166 Fowler Street development but many in the immediate Atlantic Station development cried foul. For those against, it was a losing battle as a 33 story residential tower was approved by the governing board for Home Park.

Thanks, Celeste. I've heard about this dispute but haven't fully grasped what it's about. Are the people at Atlantic Station saying it's okay for them to build towers but that the neighbors can't?

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Thanks, Celeste. I've heard about this dispute but haven't fully grasped what it's about. Are the people at Atlantic Station saying it's okay for them to build towers but that the neighbors can't?

Andrea from what I gathered, the new owners in the actual Atlantic Station development doesn't want the tower there because it will block their views of the midtown and downtown skylines. That's interesting because the blueprint for Atlantic Station called for highrises in the development. What the midrise buyers were thinking is beyond me. To me, this is the best use of the land. The Home Park neighborhood agrees because in order for Atlantic Station to work, high density is needed.

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I don't fully understand the argument either. Atlantic Station has always planned on having more towers; they just aren't all going to be built at once.

It looks like the article may have a typo. It talks about "a 40-foot tall, 33-story tower." Unless I'm misinterpreting the article that means each floor should be about 1.2 feet tall. This would make it tough to walk around in.

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People who live in the city of Atlanta should not have a gripe about towers going up in their neighborhood. If you live downtown, expect this to happen. Atlmangum summed it up, if you don't want to live near a tower, move out of the city.

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Then what areas constitute 'the city'? If you are reffering to 'the city' as the city limits of Atlanta, why use an abstract boundary which many of the interior neighborhoods have as much common as those in central Dekalb or Cobb counties.

Also, downtown, for many suburbanites is a very relative description for what they consider most of the city. The urban core of Atlanta is very small, otherwise most of it is inner-ring suburban neighborhoods. The vast majority of this area can NOT support high density - the streets are narrow & are often based on a suburban/rural road collector system style rather than a traditional street grid found in primarily Downtown & Midtown.

Placing a high rise in Grant Park or off of Cascade would make as much sense as building one in Martin's Landing in Roswell or any other suburban subdivision. Also - further decentralizing the highest densities will evolve in greater sprawl.

Now - as for the location of the 16th St tower, I do consider this a marginally appropriate site due to it's proximity to the freeway & along a major street that connects 17th & 14th St. Otherwise, any further in Home Park would make very little sense.

Again - we're not talking about Manhattan here, Atlanta is mostly a suburban oriented city made up of single family housing. Though the city does need to dramatically densify, as it is now one of the least dense populated cities in the country, it needs to densify wisely & appropriately. Build towers where there are already towers, after that - expand - but don't expand until the infrastructure can sustain increased densities.

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