Metro Population deceleration

[HolidayInnExpress]

Most recent population estimates by the Upjohn institute show that the Grand Rapids Metropolitan area growth in this new decade is significantly slower than in previous decades, in regards to percentages growth, although numerical growth might be comparable.

I find it interesting that the decade of 2000 has a slower rate of growth than does the decade of the 80

[GRDadof3]

I would be surprised if Ann Arbor is a magnet destination for people around the country. Isn't it mainly just that it has become a far suburb of Detroit, and is growing at the expense of Wayne and Oakland County?

[Prankster]

I would be surprised if Ann Arbor is a magnet destination for people around the country. Isn't it mainly just that it has become a far suburb of Detroit, and is growing at the expense of Wayne and Oakland County?

You would have to couple that with all of the high tech jobs growth happening there also. Between UofM and Pfizer, they are accountable for a sizable amount of the new high tech jobs that are coming to Michigan.

[HolidayInnExpress]

I would be surprised if Ann Arbor is a magnet destination for people around the country. Isn't it mainly just that it has become a far suburb of Detroit, and is growing at the expense of Wayne and Oakland County?

You would be pleasantly surprised. THe University of Michigan has a world reputation for excellence and it attracts people to the research and the area is attractive enough where people want to stay. Its proximity to detroit is definately a plus. However, remember that communting patterns determine what constitutes a metropolitan area by the Office of Management and Budget. The Ann Arbor area is largely self supported and are mostly NOT people who work in Detroit but live in the area.

[GRDadof3]

You would be pleasantly surprised. THe University of Michigan has a world reputation for excellence and it attracts people to the research and the area is attractive enough where people want to stay. Its proximity to detroit is definately a plus. However, remember that communting patterns determine what constitutes a metropolitan area by the Office of Management and Budget. The Ann Arbor area is largely self supported and are mostly NOT people who work in Detroit but live in the area.

I am well aware of U of M, thanks Do we really need to do a get into which city is better? Those always go so well I would venture to say you are right Prankster about people transferring there as part of a job with Pfizer or UofM, but are people actually sitting down at the dinner table in New York, looking at a big map of the U.S. and saying, let's check out relocating to Ann Arbor, Michigan (or anywhere in Michigan for that matter).

[HolidayInnExpress]

I am well aware of U of M, thanks Do we really need to do a get into which city is better? Those always go so well I would venture to say you are right Prankster about people transferring there as part of a job with Pfizer or UofM, but are people actually sitting down at the dinner table in New York, looking at a big map of the U.S. and saying, let's check out relocating to Ann Arbor, Michigan (or anywhere in Michigan for that matter).

I thought this was a sharing and trading of facts and analyses, not a passing of judgment, which ranking one place as

[torgo]

I thought this was a sharing and trading of facts and analyses, not a passing of judgment, which ranking one place as

[RustTown]

While this goes for most states, the majority of Michigan's slow growth, even, has been due to sprawl. Washtenaw County is growing rapidly, but even it's not the City of Ann Arbor or the immediate surroundings. It's sprawl in all of the suburban townships surrounding it.

Another very telling sign is the explosive growth of Livingston County which doesn't even have one city over 10,000 residents put is fastly approaching 200,000 in population. It is the new Oakland County of Metro Detroit, which also doesn't have one, single city over 100,000 persons (sprawl).

I would almost say that this is worst than even slow growth at all because of the strains it's putting on our cities and counties. Despite Grand Rapids impressive gain in the last census, the suburban growth numbers were just disheartening.

This is a national trend, and an issue of society that will take many more years to change. If we don't stop, were are going to spread our resources to the breaking point (which can already be seen in Metro Detroit), and then we will start seeing some ugly suburban decay.

[MJLO]

Actually Andy I think your response is very poignant. Michigan's reputation is sometimes synonymous with Detroit. Detroit does have a bad rap. Along with some hidden treasures. I was told in one by one of my economic teachers, that during economic upswings, and downturns in the country, Michigan does five percent better, or five percent worse, than the rest of the country. During this last economic recession, some real problems have finally started to be addressed, Namely our reliance on the manufacturing sector, and our grossly over paid blue collar workers. I think it's only natural to see that as the economy over here has sputtered, the growth to the area has slowed, as some of the motivation to move here is gone. I think as you see our economy diversify, and things start to pick up. Growth could go back to pre 9/11 levels.

[HolidayInnExpress]

Duly noted.

I think, to make Michigan a "magnet", Detroit will have to seriously clean itself up, or the state will have to try to take the focus from Detroit and place it on GR and Ann Arbor in particular. Michigan has lots of great attractions in terms of water, woodlands, rural countryside, and great cities, but when people are thinking about moving somewhere I believe they think in terms of jobs & money and this leads us to more built-out areas. And when they do that, they think "Detroit" and go "ugghhh" because its got a bad rep. Heck, most people outside of the state/area have "heard" about Grand Rapids the way I have "heard" about Spokane, Washington. I know its there, but thats about it. And the cold weather doesn't really work to our benefit. All right, I'm done rambling now.

Interesting. The problem that I see in your analysis...I might be wrong mind you...is that you talk about improving Michigan by taking from one part of the state and giving it to the other. That does not seem to promote a NET GAIN in my opinion. Certainly if attention and resources were shifted from Detroit...it would only get worse and not better...which would lead to more negative things for the national media to focus on. Keep in mind that the media focus much more attention on the negative than on the positive. Consequently, investing in the eroding of Detroit

[MJLO]

eh over half of the states population lives in Metro Detroit,

six and a half million people live in the I-75 corridor, from the tri cities on down. You definately can't discount that group of people when they truly do comprise the cultural and political make up of the state.

[torgo]

Interesting. The problem that I see in your analysis...I might be wrong mind you...is that you talk about improving Michigan by taking from one part of the state and giving it to the other. That does not seem to promote a NET GAIN in my opinion. Certainly if attention and resources were shifted from Detroit...it would only get worse and not better...which would lead to more negative things for the national media to focus on. Keep in mind that the media focus much more attention on the negative than on the positive. Consequently, investing in the eroding of Detroit

[GRDadof3]

I kind of see the relationship between Grand Rapids and the Detroit area as two brothers (I like to keep it simple). One brother is pretty clean cut, gets pretty good grades, works hard, is doing pretty well, and keeps his head out of trouble, while the other brother......has problems. He keeps getting into trouble, he won't listen to the rest of the family, he keeps repeating the same mistakes, he is the topic of conversation at every holiday, and really makes the family look bad, but Mom and Dad keep giving him money anyway. Unfortunately, he's here to stay. We'll just put a nice shirt on him, and maybe he won't embarass us too much at the restaurant.

I agree that how Detroit goes, so goes the rest of us, but can't Detroit learn from its more successful siblings, like Grand Rapids or Traverse City, for instance, instead of treating us like the red-headed step child. Just asking.

I was trying to leave the emotion out, but it's pretty difficult.

[HolidayInnExpress]

Hmm. Maybe a better way of addressing the issue would be not take the focus away from Detroit, but find a way to remind people that there are other cities in the state. I think that Detroit is too representative of the state on the national stage. Yes, a lot of people live around there, but a lot of people live in SW Michigan, too. I guess my train of thinking is that if people see areas of Michigan that are doing relatively well, such as Ann Arbor/GR, then maybe it will generate investment/population increases, some of which would surely benefit Detroit.

I would agree with that assessment....and I think it

[MJLO]

I think Detroit's problems are a tad deeper than just following the model of a city a fraction it's size. Also as I recall Grand Rapids itself wasn't exactly a utopian paradise in the 70's even now the city is making great strides, but has quite a long way to go.

If Detroit is to get better I don't think they need to worry about the east/west Michigan thing. The more pressing problem is the political and class warfare that goes on between the city, and it's dependent, (even if they are in denial of it) suburbs. Before worrying about the small rift between east/west siders. Southeast Michigan needs to stop fighting with itself!!!

[HolidayInnExpress]

Hmm. Maybe a better way of addressing the issue would be not take the focus away from Detroit, but find a way to remind people that there are other cities in the state. I think that Detroit is too representative of the state on the national stage. Yes, a lot of people live around there, but a lot of people live in SW Michigan, too. I guess my train of thinking is that if people see areas of Michigan that are doing relatively well, such as Ann Arbor/GR, then maybe it will generate investment/population increases, some of which would surely benefit Detroit.

Wow...interesting analogy. Using your analogy of siblings I have a different take. I look at it as if one sibling was treated better than the other sibling by the parents, which lead to the different behavior and reality. In this analogy, parents being the economy. Grand Rapids more diversified economic base, as well as much smaller population, created two different outcomes for the siblings.

[GaryP]

I kind of see the relationship between Grand Rapids and the Detroit area as two brothers (I like to keep it simple). One brother is pretty clean cut, gets pretty good grades, works hard, is doing pretty well, and keeps his head out of trouble, while the other brother......has problems. He keeps getting into trouble, he won't listen to the rest of the family, he keeps repeating the same mistakes, he is the topic of conversation at every holiday, and really makes the family look bad, but Mom and Dad keep giving him money anyway. Unfortunately, he's here to stay. We'll just put a nice shirt on him, and maybe he won't embarass us too much at the restaurant.

I agree that how Detroit goes, so goes the rest of us, but can't Detroit learn from its more successful siblings, like Grand Rapids or Traverse City, for instance, instead of treating us like the red-headed step child. Just asking.

I was trying to leave the emotion out, but it's pretty difficult.

but, too.

Let

[HolidayInnExpress]

I think Detroit's problems are a tad deeper than just following the model of a city a fraction it's size. Also as I recall Grand Rapids itself wasn't exactly a utopian paradise in the 70's even now the city is making great strides, but has quite a long way to go.

If Detroit is to get better I don't think they need to worry about the east/west Michigan thing. The more pressing problem is the political and class warfare that goes on between the city, and it's dependent, (even if they are in denial of it) suburbs. Before worrying about the small rift between east/west siders. Southeast Michigan needs to stop fighting with itself!!!

Agreed...but it goes much deeper than simply "Class warfare"....unfortunately. If the area grew more rapidly it could grow out that 1960's mentality that polarizes it. An influx of people who think differently could break down that polorization....like it does in other metro areas.

[RustTown]

What people seem to forget about, here, is Detroit's storied past and history (one of the oldes cities in the Midwest). It was built on a much grander scale, in fact, built on a national scale. It is both still highly populous (even with it's tremendous population lost), and physically large. It is a quintessential big city. Grand Rapids just isn't built on that scale. That doesn't make one better than the other, but it makes comparing the two on most issues kind of ridiculous.

Grand Rapids Metro could concievably grow to meet Detroit's down the road some time, but it will never be the first city of the state. It will always play second fiddle in terms of media attention simply because the central city is so small. Heck, San Jose California is larger than it's neighbor, San Francisco, but it would be ridiculous to think that San Jose could have the pretige of SF in even the distant future.

Firstborns, regardless of what good or bad they do, are still firstborns. It doesn't mean that the secondborn can't excel or be better at certain things, though.

[torgo]

Agreed...but it goes much deeper than simply "Class warfare"....unfortunately. If the area grew more rapidly it could grow out that 1960's mentality that polarizes it. An influx of people who think differently could break down that polorization....like it does in other metro areas.

Detroit is losing residents fast too, or at least Detroit proper is. Detroit is at a disadvantage of being much bigger than other areas, so the problems they have are BIG problems that are more difficult to manage

[GRDadof3]

I was thinking of the parents being the taxpayers of the entire State. Regardless of how one was treated while growing up, the reality is this is where they are. Now very few people want to come visit, not less move into the same neighborhood. Does this require an intervention by the whole family? I think so. In fact, I check in on the Detroit forum hoping to see good and encouraging news. You're right HIX, that an advanced skyline will give new attention to Grand Rapids. Look at Madison, much smaller than Milwaukee, but I think it has a better reputation and is gaining attention from around the Midwest (if not the country). Same with Raleigh-Durham. Smaller than Charlotte, but I think gets more national attention due to great strides with technology and RTP.

[HolidayInnExpress]

I was thinking of the parents being the taxpayers of the entire State. Regardless of how one was treated while growing up, the reality is this is where they are. Now very few people want to come visit, not less move into the same neighborhood. Does this require an intervention by the whole family? I think so. In fact, I check in on the Detroit forum hoping to see good and encouraging news. You're right HIX, that an advanced skyline will give new attention to Grand Rapids. Look at Madison, much smaller than Milwaukee, but I think it has a better reputation and is gaining attention from around the Midwest (if not the country). Same with Raleigh-Durham. Smaller than Charlotte, but I think gets more national attention due to great strides with technology and RTP.

I don

[GRDadof3]

No, I wasn't saying the general population of the Detroit is the Brother. I am saying that the people in power, the decision makers, are the Brother. You don't have to agree, I just relay observations.

[HolidayInnExpress]

No, I wasn't saying the general population of the Detroit is the Brother. I am saying that the people in power, the decision makers, are the Brother. You don't have to agree, I just relay observations.

Whether or not I agree...I would always want to come away enriched with something...if nothing else than and understanding of where a person is coming from. I can

[GaryP]

Interesting. The problem that I see in your analysis...I might be wrong mind you...is that you talk about improving Michigan by taking from one part of the state and giving it to the other. That does not seem to promote a NET GAIN in my opinion.

I agree and this is why I get so upset to read things like the metro Detroit schools getting $10,000 to $11,000 per student and the metro GR schools getting $6,000 to $8,000 per student. I dont want to take any money away from Detroit, I just want equal $s for my community.