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vicupstate

Peyton cancels return of Cecil

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bobliocatt    0

Oh well. I can't believe he gives up on this so quickly because he takes a little heat, when just 2 weeks ago he was willing to take $50 million from a budget busted city to give to the Navy. Cecil is an airport and is attractive to Aerospace related companies. What happens when Boeing, McDonnell Douglass or some other company comes along? So is the city going to continue to allow cheap tract homes to be built near the airport? This is rediculous, what's the official date for the next election!

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jjoshjl    0

:shok:

um...

ok...

sure thing there sparky...

TUC for Mayor...

Lakelander For Mayor...

Riverside For Mayor..

ANYBODY BIT THIS GUY...

Peace...

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bobliocatt    0

^That be good, but I'd doubt. Littlepage and Andy Johnson would voice their opinion and he'd probably end taking their advice to split up the courthouse into several abandoned Walmart and Winn-Dixie buildings all over town.

I'm sure that $50 million will go to bringing back some overpasses in the BJP or a road project on the Southside. I'm just shocked that this guy would walk away from a 12,000 job generator so quick without seriously studying the positives and negatives, just because some NIMBYs jump on his back. He's been in office for over 2 years now and I still don't know what he stands for other than inactivity.

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This is INSANE. Nevermind his actual stance on Cecil - yea or nay. It is just mindnumbing that he keeps on flip-flopping like this!! Is he too weak to actually make any decisions and stick with them?

At this point, one has to assume that he won't get re-elected. Polls indicated that even a majority of Westside residents supported Cecil. Even the democrats could beat him now!

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Florida    0

What an unwise decision he has made turning away from a 12,000 job opportunity. I don't use the word hate... but when it comes to selfish NIMBYs.... yeah.

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Peyton is the worst Mayor in living memory. It turns out my earlier statement regarding out little mayor were prophetic. I knew he didnt have the nerve to go through with this. He is a complete weakling. HE NEEDS TO GO!

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asonj23    0

He has offically become what is known in Internet speak as a 'Tard.

OK, take that $50 million and get that courthouse going.

He'll have to appoint a commitee to do so. Let's just hope he doesn't put it towards any more overpasses. He would be better off just to give the money back to the people (I'm sure Littlepage would like that).

TaureanJ go to COJ.Net

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vicupstate    220

He'll have to appoint a commitee to do so. Let's just hope he doesn't put it towards any more overpasses. He would be better off just to give the money back to the people (I'm sure Littlepage would like that).

This $50mm was never authorized by the city council, so it really doesn't "go back" to the BJP or elsewhere. It the same thing as if you were to 'think about" getting a loan, but you never turned in the application to the lender.

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jjoshjl    0

SOMETHING TO CONSIDER:

While I think it was a realy dumb idea. Notice this did come very very soon after the Kuhn Announcement. It could be possible, however highly imporbably, that he may be freeing up some commitments in order to get Kuhn what he needs and wants. He may finally se that investing in DT is far more Profitable than suburbs...

While Cecil would have created 12000 jobs, its very possible that as Cecil Industry park (or whatever its called) may very well would have created those jobs anyway.

Again, i think it is a dumb decision on his part, but this maybe something to consider.

Cheers

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asonj23    0

^ :blink:

SOMETHING TO CONSIDER:

While I think it was a realy dumb idea. Notice this did come very very soon after the Kuhn Announcement. It could be possible, however highly imporbably, that he may be freeing up some commitments in order to get Kuhn what he needs and wants. He may finally se that investing in DT is far more Profitable than suburbs...

While Cecil would have created 12000 jobs, its very possible that as Cecil Industry park (or whatever its called) may very well would have created those jobs anyway.

Again, i think it is a dumb decision on his part, but this maybe something to consider.

Cheers

Thats a good point Josh. Cecil would probably generate that number of jobs naturally, although not all at once. I wonder what the NIMBY's will say when Boeing or Lockheed Martin decide to take up shop?

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bobliocatt    0

SOMETHING TO CONSIDER:

While I think it was a realy dumb idea. Notice this did come very very soon after the Kuhn Announcement. It could be possible, however highly imporbably, that he may be freeing up some commitments in order to get Kuhn what he needs and wants. He may finally se that investing in DT is far more Profitable than suburbs...

While Cecil would have created 12000 jobs, its very possible that as Cecil Industry park (or whatever its called) may very well would have created those jobs anyway.

Again, i think it is a dumb decision on his part, but this maybe something to consider.

Cheers

This decision has nothing to do with Kuhn or downtown. If anything, its a carbon copy of decisions he's made concerning controversial issues during his entire term. I have no problem with him changing his mind......if a proper and factual study of positives and negatives were done and presented. However, walking away from 12,000 job generator and swinging 180 degrees in less than a week because some residents disagree, is unacceptable.

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jhenderson    0

I (and the majority of Jax residents in a recent poll) am happy that he changed his mind. The westside has finally started to come around and lose the old stigma of the "redneck westside" and then he was going to try and bring in this huge dredge on the local economy. As fans of smart, attractive urban design, how can you be for this proposal? Let me ask...do any of you live in the Mayport area? How about along 17 where NAS Jax is? Are these the primo areas of town that you would want to live and raise a family in?

The reason new homes were and are being built in the area is because Cecil Field Air Base closed a long time ago and Cecil Field Commerce Center took its place. Would I mind living near a commerce center?Probably not (especially if I knew it already existed in the area)...but near a f-17 naval air station...probably. Honestly, you probably would too.

No you say? I have an idea...instead of putting the air station at Cecil Field, why not on the Southside...along Phillips Highway....just south of the 9-A interchange? Or how about somewhere along the JTB corridor?

To me this whole issue was symbolic of the complex Jax has...that we "NEED" this stupid military base to further spur our growth. Please...if we are that desparate for growth...that we need a bunch of the lowest paying jobs available (military is not known for its executive pay), then how are we not the "biggest little town in America"? Enough of the complex already!

We should be focusing on attracting and retaining corporations and improving quality of life in the city. These are the 2 critical things that will grow the city in a HEALTHY way. Secondarily we should look at tourism as a minor focus. But more military bases? Especially when it costs us $50,000,000 of money we don't have? Please.

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vicupstate    220

He promised money to the Navy he didn't have? Where was he planning to get it from?

The Council had passed a "Resolution" that supported the return of the Navy. A resolution is not as binding as an ordinance. On that basis, he promised the Navy to pursue approval for the $. Jeb also 'promised' $150mm, but the legislature would have had to approve it as well. Both men were staking their reputations on getting the respective bodies to approve it.

^ :blink:

Thats a good point Josh. Cecil would probably generate that number of jobs naturally, although not all at once. I wonder what the NIMBY's will say when Boeing or Lockheed Martin decide to take up shop?

No one will have a problem with Lockheed Martin or Boeing building planes, it's only flying them at high noise levels and at short intervals that anyone will care about.

Is Peyton really that short? I have never seen him in person. I seem to remember the figure 5'7" being toss around though. Of course, what politician hasn't fudged numbers. At 5"9" , I can't say too much regardless.

The Kuhn announcement is just coincidental.

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bobliocatt    0

Quote by jhenderson I (and the majority of Jax residents in a recent poll) am happy that he changed his mind. The westside has finally started to come around and lose the old stigma of the "redneck westside" and then he was going to try and bring in this huge dredge on the local economy. As fans of smart, attractive urban design, how can you be for this proposal? Let me ask...do any of you live in the Mayport area? How about along 17 where NAS Jax is? Are these the primo areas of town that you would want to live and raise a family in?

I disagree, the old "redneck" Westside stigma is still there. Ortega is also a skip and a hop away from NAS Jax and the homes around Oceana are pretty nice, so I don't think we can flat out say a Navy base drags an area of town down. More likely, the filth was already there. As a fan of urban design, I saw the airbase becoming a boundary for sprawling development on the Westside.

The reason new homes were and are being built in the area is because Cecil Field Air Base closed a long time ago and Cecil Field Commerce Center took its place. Would I mind living near a commerce center?Probably not (especially if I knew it already existed in the area)...but near a f-17 naval air station...probably. Honestly, you probably would too.

The Commerce Center is still an active airport with a 12,000ft long runway. The majority of businesses located there are aviation related. Cecil, as a commerce center stands a much better chance of getting a jet manufacturing faciltiy, than a car plant. What happens when Boeing wants to come to town and pay high wages to build noisy jets at Cecil? Will Westside residents complain about that too? I think so.

Regardless of the Mayor's decision, I don't think houses should be allowed to be built any closer near the Commerce Center, because in the long run, future residents (like in every other neighborhood, near an airport) will complain about jet noise.

No you say? I have an idea...instead of putting the air station at Cecil Field, why not on the Southside...along Phillips Highway....just south of the 9-A interchange? Or how about somewhere along the JTB corridor?

If there was an existing airport there and the opportunity came along, then why not. Since there isn't, its a mute point.

To me this whole issue was symbolic of the complex Jax has...that we "NEED" this stupid military base to further spur our growth. Please...if we are that desparate for growth...that we need a bunch of the lowest paying jobs available (military is not known for its executive pay), then how are we not the "biggest little town in America"? Enough of the complex already! We should be focusing on attracting and retaining corporations and improving quality of life in the city. These are the 2 critical things that will grow the city in a HEALTHY way. Secondarily we should look at tourism as a minor focus. But more military bases?Especially when it costs us $50,000,000 of money we don't have? Please.

This is why we needed a study to weigh the positives and negatives of giving Cecil back to the Navy. $50 million may only be a drop in the bucket, if the economic impact of having a base employing 12,000 brings in $500 million or $1 billion in terms of economic impact to the local economy annually.

12,000 jobs is 12,000 jobs. I don't care if its a Walmart distribution center, call center, or Navy base. It still has a positive impact on the local community, since those 12,000 people have families who will need housing, retail and support services.

Finally, overall I think the city is doing a good job of attracting companies and jobs to town. Fidelity and Washington Mutual are examples of this. Going after the Navy is also another example. The keep to a strong economy and a high quality of life is to attract diversity. Not only cultural, but economic as well.

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asonj23    0

I (and the majority of Jax residents in a recent poll) am happy that he changed his mind. The westside has finally started to come around and lose the old stigma of the "redneck westside" and then he was going to try and bring in this huge dredge on the local economy. As fans of smart, attractive urban design, how can you be for this proposal? Let me ask...do any of you live in the Mayport area? How about along 17 where NAS Jax is? Are these the primo areas of town that you would want to live and raise a family in?
What recent pole are you referring to?

No one will have a problem with Lockheed Martin or Boeing building planes, it's only flying them at high noise levels and at short intervals that anyone will care about.

The commerce center already has its share of inbound/outbound commercial traffic. Granted, these planes aren't F-18's, however, are still quite noisy. The residents surrounding Cecil already deal with flight noise just as they always have. They moved into the area knowing this so why complain now?

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jhenderson    0

If there was an existing airport there and the opportunity came along, then why not. Since there isn't, its a mute point.

i guess it is all a moot point anyway, because it is no longer a proposal with any wind behind it.

curious still though...anyone live right off 17 near the base or near the mayport base?

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bobliocatt    0

I can't say that I do. I live under the flight path, but I'm too far away to hear anything. Nevertheless, we need to keep in mind Cecil IS an airport and we need to protect it from residential encroachment, regardless of if the Navy came or not. Continuing to allow developers to build cheap homes closer to the airport will only hurt it in the long run as an industrial center. For proof you don't have to go any further than Craig Airport, where residents complain over there.

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vicupstate    220

I disagree, the old "redneck" Westside stigma is still there. As a fan of urban design, I saw the airbase becoming a boundary for sprawling development on the Westside.

What happens when Boeing wants to come to town and pay high wages to build noisy jets at Cecil? Will Westside residents complain about that too? I think so.

Regardless of the Mayor's decision, I don't think houses should be allowed to be built any closer near the Commerce Center, because in the long run, future residents (like in every other neighborhood, near an airport) will complain about jet noise.

This is why we needed a study to weigh the positives and negatives of giving Cecil back to the Navy. $50 million may only be a drop in the bucket, if the economic impact of having a base employing 12,000 brings in $500 million or $1 billion in terms of economic impact to the local economy annually.

12,000 jobs is 12,000 jobs. I don't care if its a Walmart distribution center, call center, or Navy base. It still has a positive impact on the local community, since those 12,000 people have families who will need housing, retail and support services.

While clearly the Westside is still stigmatized, it has started to improve it's image. Builders putting up $300k homes is proof of that. Just the news of Cecil coming back had already stifled that. The Northside use to be stigmated too, but look at the growth there now.

As for sprawl, I strongly question that a Navy base would have limited it in any way. The sprawl would have just moved northward and southward into Clay county. Additionally, the sprawl might just as likely "jumped over" the base into Baker County. That area has already seen a big spike in development before this issue arose. Mountains, very large bodies of water, and growth boundaries are about the only things that limit sprawl in my experience.

You can't discount the fact that these were very loud planes that would be taking off every couple of minutes. Boeing would not likely be in the same league as that.

Your point about limiting close-in development at Cecil is an excellent one. Now is the perfect time to enact zoning that will restrict future residential construction in the most critical spots around Cecil.

I also agree that this decision was premature, and a thorough and OBJECTIVE study should have been done. However, I do think a decision needed to be made within a month (or less) from now. Other cities were starting to recruit the current Cecil tenants. That, coupled with the "freeze" of development on the Westside was making this very deterimental.

The city wasn't just paying $50mm. It was forfeiting $175mm invested in Cecil since the '90s. That cost has to be considered too. Also, the Cecil field was a 1.5 billiion dollar asset. Granted, the Navy gave it to the city to begin with, but the city was under no obligation to give it back either.

I don't see the benefit of bring in jobs just for the sake of jobs. I would rather save the schools, transportation, and other infrastructure capacity (what there is of it) for good paying jobs. The kind of jobs that can be filled by the Jacksonville High School graduates that go to college and don't come back.

Given the quick turn of events, I suspect that Peyton had some information that hasn't been made public, that made the decision to pull the plug easier. Wasn't there a study due soon, like next week? Maybe a preliminary draft showed that the Cecil senario wasn't as rosy as first thought. Just a guess though.

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