Condos, retail part of Avondale plan

[bobliocatt]

According to the plan, the shops are also located under the parking garage facing St. Johns Avenue. All in all, the retail is probably about the same out of space as the current footprint, minus the parking.

[grimss]

I'll let you know tomorrow. Again, the meeting is at 6 pm at Riverside Elementary and, supposedly, they'll give everyone more detailed elevations then. The only thing submitted on the PUD is the elevation posted here.

Just wanted to update all of you on the meeting and its ongoing aftermath. Here's a racap, which I first posted on that site thelakelander recommended (sorry for the length):

My impression of everyone's reactions was that there could be broad support if the density presently concentrated in the tower was better spread out throughout the entire development. I found Balanky a bit slick--especially his comment (after repeated reassurances that design would be guided by neighborhood feedback) that "this is YOUR project." To which the RAP representive very cleverly asked if that meant there'd be profit sharing with the neighbors. I also sensed a not-so-well-veiled warning that, unless we all basically green-light the project in its present incarnation, then it (and the promised dredging) will all disappear. Sorry, but I can't just sign on without a better representation of exactly what sort of impact this thing is going to have. Here's a letter I sent to Balanky and Michael Corrigan of the City Council this morning (sorry for the length; opposing comments welcome):

"Dear Mr. Corrigan,

First, I want to thank you for attending last night's RAP-sponsored meeting with Michael Balanky of Chase Properties. I am pleased to see that the City Council is eager to monitor neighborhood sentiment about the proposed redevelopment of the Commander Apartments and the St. Johns Center.

While there is a considerable degree of excitement among many parties about the project's potential--and the prospect of finally dredging those silted creeks is almost irresistible--I do want to voice some of my concerns about the project's scale. I did not sense in Mr. Balanky a great willingness to reconsider the size of the largest piece of the project--the "rebuilding" of the Commander Apartments. He alluded to concessions that the neighborhood will have to make to accommodate the new tower without, in my opinion, being totally frank about the new tower's true size and impact on its setting.

First, one needs to clarify that this is not, as he phrased it, merely tearing down the old apartment building and then putting it back. This is not mere rebuilding. True rebuilding would put a structure of the same height and density on the previously existing footprint. What is proposed by Chase Properties is a completely new building that is not only higher (the Commander has 17 stories of 8-foot ceilings with pre-modern-code ductwork and sprinklers) but also roughly three times the footprint, with new "wings" that will seriously distort the views, light, and residential flavor of its surroundings. I can respect the economic rationale that dictates what sort of density needs to be put in place, but I disagree with the proposed solution.

When considering the prospective tower's appropriateness on its site, I think it's worthwhile to reference another recent project in our area, one that I believe RAP and the City Council are justly proud of. The Villa Riva Condominiums are an impressive, significant addition to Riverside. The cornerstone condo tower is now a dominant, attractive feature along Riverside Avenue and the river itself. It's also only 13 stories tall, with less impact, in terms of its footprint on the site, than the "new" Commander will have. Moreover, it's situated on the St. Johns River, in an area that, notwithstanding the small, lovely St. Johns District, has long seen significant dense use by institutions like St. Vincent's.

Big Fishweir and Little Fishweir Creeks, it goes without saying, are not the St. Johns. Big Fishweir is perhaps 150 feet wide, and Little Fishweir is no more than 20 feet wide. There are not miles of water to buffer the new building from its immediate neighbors. If constructed as proposed, the building will, quite literally, be a stone's throw from many of the homeowners along the creeks. Looking directly up at the present Commander Tower from my backyard, I've always imagined it to be a building that would never have gotten past local building restrictions were it to have been proposed today. It's just so completely out of proportion to its surroundings, not to mention that its design was never, shall we say, its selling point. With the exception of that one building, the area is a human-scaled, quiet community of one and two-story homes with light-use, low-elevation retail and office space.

But what Chase Properties is proposing for this part of its development is, in effect, 3 Commanders, albeit higher, closer to the water, and with an even more intrusive presence on the landscape. When completed, it will be the tallest structure between here and downtown Jacksonville. (Only the Blue Cross Blue Shield office building on Riverside is bigger, but given Mr. Balanky's allusion to having to "get the property out of the bowl it sits in"--i.e. pour in tons of dirt to raise the elevation of the land before building--one can't be sure that the scant 3-story advantage the BCBS building has will last.)

I'd like to state clearly that I am not opposed to the broad outlines of the rest of the project; urban mixed-use developments can add real vitality and value to an area. Even historic neighborhoods like Avondale must continue to evolve if they are to remain dynamic. The proposed landscaping and roundabout will, as Mr. Balanky argued, provide a fitting entrance to Avondale. But serious attention must be paid to the core building's scale and footprint; I believe strict height limits--not just a promise to build a specific number of stories--must be a firm part of the plan. I believe a design that scales down the height of the proposed building's "wings" will help mitigate its impact on its immediate neighbors. Also, based on the tone of discussions last night, I believe any effort to better distribute the proposed residential density throughout the entire development is the surest path to improving chances for broad neighborhood support."

Okay, so I was longwinded, and I don't know if the letter will have any effect, but I think it's important to have at least voiced my concerns. Honestly, I want to be excited about this project. But I also don't want it rammed down the neighborhood's throat purely for the sake of economic development.

Since the meeting, I've done some rough measurements of the proposed building with our architect (who thinks the new building is actually the equivalent of SIX Commanders. The old Commander is 140" wide along the water, although it's angled on the lot and set back quite a bit to allow parking and pool. The new building is 240" along the water, and pushed way down the lot, maybe 15 feet from the water (just guessing on that last one, but it's MUCH closer). The wings that run perpendicular to the central core are each 180" long, i.e. more than the total breadth of the present buildling. No one at the meeting was willing to disclose the buildling's height, but it's evident it's a pretty huge structure on a pretty small creek . . . .

As for the retail mix proposed, Balanky asked fo suggestions about what people wanted to see there. Looks like all the retail will be concentrated along St. John's now (with proposed pull-in parking along the street, similar to what's up at the shops of Avondale). Don't think everyone's dreams of waterfront dining will become a reality.

Thanks for letting me vent. I just find it aufully convenient Balanky's architect claimed not to have any side elevations to show everyone the project's true scale . . .

[grimss]

Just wanted all interested parties to know that Councilman Corrigan is hosting an informational meeting about the proposed Commander redevelopment this Monday, January 9th, at Fishweir Elementary at 6pm. Reps from the Planning Department, Traffic, and Legal will be there to hear comments and answer concerns. Balanky has changed the main condo tower so that it now stretches to 21 stories, although he's reduced some of the height along the residential part of Dupont Circle. The proposed buildling is still MASSIVE and now sits on a 2-3 story parking garage directly on the creek, but the architecture is, I have to admit, quite lovely; there will be side elevations of the new design on display for review--the design is meant to be Kluthoesque Prairie style.

[Urban_Legend]

^If you or anyone else could get pics of the renderings posted here, I'd be most appreciative! I like the Prairie style, and have noticed it more and more throughout Jacksonville.

[simms3]

I just got a job at the Loop there, and heard that it wont be two years or more before anything closes, but i am in favor of this project if balanky does a nice job of keeping it within avondale character and not using any cheap stucco and faux mediterranean architecture