When and Where will NWA get its first high rise over 30 stories?

[RemusCal]

I would like to see towers go up around pinnacle at around 30 or 40 stories. It would create a more downtown urban feel. I don't think it will happen for awhile, but I would love to see an investor think about doing this. We must build up not out. Get rid of suburban sprawl.

[CentralArkansas]

I would like to see towers go up around pinnacle at around 30 or 40 stories. It would create a more downtown urban feel. I don't think it will happen for awhile, but I would love to see an investor think about doing this. We must build up not out. Get rid of suburban sprawl.

Well, considering Little Rock's downtown is older, much more established, and currently undergoing a major influx of development and has just three buildings over 30 stories I'd say it's not very likely to happen.

I would go into details on the market of NWA and why it wouldn't happen, but there are others on here that would be able to do that with more knowledge than I. So, I'll just leave it at my opinion that there will be no highrises in the near future (unless Tyson, Wal-Mart, etc. get tired of having all that money and decide to throw it around, which I don't think will happen).

[mcheiss]

Well, considering Little Rock's downtown is older, much more established, and currently undergoing a major influx of development and has just three buildings over 30 stories I'd say it's not very likely to happen.

I would go into details on the market of NWA and why it wouldn't happen, but there are others on here that would be able to do that with more knowledge than I. So, I'll just leave it at my opinion that there will be no highrises in the near future (unless Tyson, Wal-Mart, etc. get tired of having all that money and decide to throw it around, which I don't think will happen).

I think it's somewhat possible that a 30 story high rise could come to Pinnacle. Currently they are planning a 16 story mixed use building that won't get started until around 2007 when the Perry Road Interchange is completed. I think it will take around 10 years or so for one to come. I had some thoughts on actually a tenant for a building of that calibur. It seems that Arvest Bank keeps on expanding branches all across the state, yet they really don't have a centralized headquarters for all their banks. Instead, their banking headquarters are spread out in regional headquarters. If Arvest were to make a centralized headquarters, then I think that a 30 story building is very possible.

There are plenty of sites also next to Pinnacle near the future Mercy Health Hospital that are perfectly suited for downtown commerical development and highway commercial.

I would like to see more midrises go in first in the pinnacle area, and then add high-rises in the area, to kind of sell the area.

By the way, it's nice to hear from you RemusCal.

[Mith242]

While it's possible I'm not sure if a 30 story building will be coming very soon. As I've mentioned in another post I think one of the few things working for any of the cities to start building up is the fact that a lot of land is already tied up into city limits and some cities are already starting to get hemmed in. But that's not to say that there still isn't plenty of land to develop. Obviously at this point Rogers and Fayetteville would have the edge. But I wonder if Fayetteville residents and city council really want any buildings at this height. There aren't any codes or regulations about height but if there was a city to do it, Fayetteville would obviously be the one to try to limit this. As much as I'd like to see this area start building up more than build out I'm just not sure how soon it will happen. I do like the idea of a centralized Arvest and they could put up a building around this height. Of course several companies could build a building like this if they wanted but I'm not sure any of them would. Maybe at some point in the future but I don't think any of them are going to move the hq just to build a high-rise in the area. Is Arvest based out of Lowell?

[CentralArkansas]

I think it's somewhat possible that a 30 story high rise could come to Pinnacle. Currently they are planning a 16 story mixed use building that won't get started until around 2007 when the Perry Road Interchange is completed. I think it will take around 10 years or so for one to come. I had some thoughts on actually a tenant for a building of that calibur. It seems that Arvest Bank keeps on expanding branches all across the state, yet they really don't have a centralized headquarters for all their banks. Instead, their banking headquarters are spread out in regional headquarters. If Arvest were to make a centralized headquarters, then I think that a 30 story building is very possible.

There are plenty of sites also next to Pinnacle near the future Mercy Health Hospital that are perfectly suited for downtown commerical development and highway commercial.

I would like to see more midrises go in first in the pinnacle area, and then add high-rises in the area, to kind of sell the area.

By the way, it's nice to hear from you RemusCal.

Oh, it may happen ten years from now. But, in the immediate future, I don't see it.

As for Arvest, I can't see them needing a building that big as they are simply a regional bank. But, it sure would be nice if they'd consolidate their operations as they expand and build a nice building in Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

Oh, it may happen ten years from now. But, in the immediate future, I don't see it.

As for Arvest, I can't see them needing a building that big as they are simply a regional bank. But, it sure would be nice if they'd consolidate their operations as they expand and build a nice building in Fayetteville.

TCBY didn't need a building as big as they built either. But if someone is going to consider a larger type building they might go ahead and build one and lease the space out. But no they don't need a tall building anymore than many other companies do.

[nandle]

I have never been to your part of NWA, but from what i know about the region it dosen't seem a 30 story building would fit in with the character of the region. A design tenant i strongly believe in is that architecture must always bee dictated by the site, as well somehow relate to the greater system it is a part of. Wise land planning typically will establish a maximum capacity for a site, typically expressed as zoning and design restrictions. Urban cores, the type you see here in Little Rock as well as most major cities still have their orgin in the 17th and 18th centuries. Im curious to what zoning the various cities in the region has enacted that might promote or dissuade such a structure.

[Aporkalypse]

I don't see it. Those types of buildings generally only exist in condensed Central Business Districts and until one forms in NWA, there will be no need to build that vertical. Office high rises are out of vogue nearly everywhere, even in big metro areas like Dallas. For the most part, most high rises now are residential.

[Mith242]

Both nandle and Aporkalypse have good points. Even if there was someone wanting to build a 30 story building here in Fayetteville I would imagine the city council would vote it down because it didn't fit into the scheme of the rest of the city. And many tallers buildings at the moment do tend to be more residential or something like a hotel/condo project.

[mcheiss]

Oh, it may happen ten years from now. But, in the immediate future, I don't see it.

As for Arvest, I can't see them needing a building that big as they are simply a regional bank. But, it sure would be nice if they'd consolidate their operations as they expand and build a nice building in Fayetteville.

They are currently the largest Arkansas based bank with 200 or so locations in Oklahoma and Missouri together. They base all of there operations out of regional headquarters, and if they wanted to, they could consolidate all of those headquarters into one. Plus the building wouldn't have to be completed owned by them, but instead it could be mixed use with condos, retail and restaurant space as well. A hotel could even go in it.

[Aporkalypse]

Both nandle and Aporkalypse have good points. Even if there was someone wanting to build a 30 story building here in Fayetteville I would imagine the city council would vote it down because it didn't fit into the scheme of the rest of the city. And many tallers buildings at the moment do tend to be more residential or something like a hotel/condo project.

Bringing up another issue, new urbanism is anti-high rise to a point and it does make sense. Little Rock in the late 1980s and early 1990s had a lot of high rise office space and a ton of vacant ground level buildings. Looking at Austin, they have essentially no high rises but every street level building is filled with stores, restaurants, etc. You really want to create a steetscape downtown where you can walk around the entire downtown and browse restaurants and shops. What happened in Little Rock, like Dallas and Houston, was that you have large office buildings with mega-garages surrounded by a few vacant buildings and downtown is abandoned at night and on weekends and you'd see far fewer pedestrians than you would expect. Every city in America is now trying to make a more pedestrian-friendly downtown with less emphasis on office space and more on residential development, shopping, and restaurants. It's amazing how much better off Little Rock is with all of the new development at street level - a 50-story building wouldn't have made the city more vibrant the way the other changes have.

A lot of people in urban planning state that Little Rock was a victim of the urban renewal fad of the 1970s and early 80s when old buildings were torn down in droves to build high rises and parking lots. Little Rock would be a much better place had that never happened and you had all of those historic structures back.

[mcheiss]

Are you kidding me about Austin?

Take a look in the Austin Forum and you will see plenty of high-rises in the city, not to mention plenty being built.

Here's a list of some high rises in Austin:

Frost Bank Tower- 33 stories

One American Center - 32 stories

One Congress Center - 30 stories

Austin Hilton Convention Center - 31 stories

Dobie Center - 29 stories

Bank of America Center - 25 stories

300 West 6th Street - 23 stories

Bank One Tower - 22 stories

100 Congress - 22 stories

San Jacinito Center - 21 stories

301 Congress Avenue - 22 stories

Westgate Tower - 25 stories

Capitol Tower - 20 stories

The Castilian - 23 stories

816 Congress Avenue - 20 stories

Hyatt Regency - 17 stories

Omni Hotel - 16 stories

823 Congress - 16 stories

Wells Fargo Tower - 17 stories

Gables Park Plaza - 15 story building, 10 apartment building (proposed)

The Spring - 36 story building (proposed)

Nova Group Building - 40 story building (proposed)

Doubletree Austin Suites 15 stories

Four Seasons Resideences - 28 stories (under construction)

301 Nueces Street - 40 story building (proposed)

501 Congress Avenue - 41 story building (proposed)

Capitol Center - 15 stories

Chase Bank Tower - 15 stories

Norwood Tower - 15 stories

Hampton Inn & Suites Downtown - 16 stories

Mariott at the Capitol - 16 stories

Stephen F. Austin Hotel - 15 stories

101 Colorado - 28 story building (proposed)

602 Davis Street - 22 story building (proposed)

805 West 5th Street - 24 story building (proposed)

William P. Clements State Office Building - 15 stories

Rebekah Baines Johnson Tower - 15 stories

210 Barrington Springs Road - 18-20 story building (proposed)

AMLI Phase 2 - 17-18 story building (proposed)

Block 21 Tower - 15 story building (proposed)

Trammel Crow Project - 22 story building (proposed)

The Monarch - 27 story building (proposed)

As you can see, Austin has plenty of high rises, and plenty that are being planned.

[skirby]

Bringing up another issue, new urbanism is anti-high rise to a point and it does make sense. Little Rock in the late 1980s and early 1990s had a lot of high rise office space and a ton of vacant ground level buildings. Looking at Austin, they have essentially no high rises but every street level building is filled with stores, restaurants, etc. You really want to create a steetscape downtown where you can walk around the entire downtown and browse restaurants and shops. What happened in Little Rock, like Dallas and Houston, was that you have large office buildings with mega-garages surrounded by a few vacant buildings and downtown is abandoned at night and on weekends and you'd see far fewer pedestrians than you would expect. Every city in America is now trying to make a more pedestrian-friendly downtown with less emphasis on office space and more on residential development, shopping, and restaurants. It's amazing how much better off Little Rock is with all of the new development at street level - a 50-story building wouldn't have made the city more vibrant the way the other changes have.

A lot of people in urban planning state that Little Rock was a victim of the urban renewal fad of the 1970s and early 80s when old buildings were torn down in droves to build high rises and parking lots. Little Rock would be a much better place had that never happened and you had all of those historic structures back.

I disagree that LR would be better off. I cannot think of any historic structures that were torn down that are missed. One of the main problems I see with downtown LR are too maney parking decks. If a deck must be built then ground retail and other uses should be included. Downtown LR during the early 70's lost its edge as a retail center. It did not change enough or in the right ways. When highrise apartments were built in the 60's only one was built in the downtown area. The others were built around Park Plaza and Riverdale. At that time the major retailers did not spend any money to update their stores but chose to move west instead. After all this time there is still only one Dillard's in LR. It has been in the same place for 40 years. During this time they have updated and enlarged more than once.

[Mith242]

I disagree that LR would be better off. I cannot think of any historic structures that were torn down that are missed. One of the main problems I see with downtown LR are too maney parking decks. If a deck must be built then ground retail and other uses should be included. Downtown LR during the early 70's lost its edge as a retail center. It did not change enough or in the right ways. When highrise apartments were built in the 60's only one was built in the downtown area. The others were built around Park Plaza and Riverdale. At that time the major retailers did not spend any money to update their stores but chose to move west instead. After all this time there is still only one Dillard's in LR. It has been in the same place for 40 years. During this time they have updated and enlarged more than once.

I really like an idea mentioned in the Fayetteville Downtown Master Plan. It suggests having parking decks but not making them easily visible or even having retail along the street and having the parking behind most of the retail or restaurants.

[mcheiss]

I saw that in the Fayetteville Master Plan, looks nice.

[Aporkalypse]

Are you kidding me about Austin?

Take a look in the Austin Forum and you will see plenty of high-rises in the city, not to mention plenty being built.

Here's a list of some high rises in Austin:

Frost Bank Tower- 33 stories

One American Center - 32 stories

One Congress Center - 30 stories

Austin Hilton Convention Center - 31 stories

Dobie Center - 29 stories

Bank of America Center - 25 stories

300 West 6th Street - 23 stories

Bank One Tower - 22 stories

100 Congress - 22 stories

San Jacinito Center - 21 stories

301 Congress Avenue - 22 stories

Westgate Tower - 25 stories

Capitol Tower - 20 stories

The Castilian - 23 stories

816 Congress Avenue - 20 stories

Hyatt Regency - 17 stories

Omni Hotel - 16 stories

823 Congress - 16 stories

Wells Fargo Tower - 17 stories

Gables Park Plaza - 15 story building, 10 apartment building (proposed)

The Spring - 36 story building (proposed)

Nova Group Building - 40 story building (proposed)

Doubletree Austin Suites 15 stories

Four Seasons Resideences - 28 stories (under construction)

301 Nueces Street - 40 story building (proposed)

501 Congress Avenue - 41 story building (proposed)

Capitol Center - 15 stories

Chase Bank Tower - 15 stories

Norwood Tower - 15 stories

Hampton Inn & Suites Downtown - 16 stories

Mariott at the Capitol - 16 stories

Stephen F. Austin Hotel - 15 stories

101 Colorado - 28 story building (proposed)

602 Davis Street - 22 story building (proposed)

805 West 5th Street - 24 story building (proposed)

William P. Clements State Office Building - 15 stories

Rebekah Baines Johnson Tower - 15 stories

210 Barrington Springs Road - 18-20 story building (proposed)

AMLI Phase 2 - 17-18 story building (proposed)

Block 21 Tower - 15 story building (proposed)

Trammel Crow Project - 22 story building (proposed)

The Monarch - 27 story building (proposed)

As you can see, Austin has plenty of high rises, and plenty that are being planned.

Austin is three times the size of LR but LR has a building taller than any of those. In any case, the streescape developed first and now the larger buildings are going up because up is the only place to build, which is the right way to do it.

[mcheiss]

Austin is three times the size of LR but LR has a building taller than any of those. In any case, the streescape developed first and now the larger buildings are going up because up is the only place to build, which is the right way to do it.

That's because Little Rock is the only place is the state of Arkansas where high rises existed 20 years ago or so. In Texas, you have cities like Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio that are larger than Austin and probably captured the interest of developers a lot more earlier.

[Aporkalypse]

I disagree that LR would be better off. I cannot think of any historic structures that were torn down that are missed. One of the main problems I see with downtown LR are too maney parking decks. If a deck must be built then ground retail and other uses should be included. Downtown LR during the early 70's lost its edge as a retail center. It did not change enough or in the right ways. When highrise apartments were built in the 60's only one was built in the downtown area. The others were built around Park Plaza and Riverdale. At that time the major retailers did not spend any money to update their stores but chose to move west instead. After all this time there is still only one Dillard's in LR. It has been in the same place for 40 years. During this time they have updated and enlarged more than once.

You have to have parking decks to park but I would like to see more underground parking as you see at the Doubletree because it allows for denser construction and no "dead blocks".

The big issue I have is with surface parking. Many of the Allright parking lots were cool old buildings and now they sit as dead space. I'd rather have one parking deck than 5 surface lots.

Pick up a copy of Little Rock: A Postcard History and look at all of the buildings that used to be around that aren't anymore, it's tragic. A few burned but most were just torn down. I was a kid when 2 of Little Rock's oldest hotels were imploded to build the Excelsior. The Territorial Restoration and even the Old Statehouse almost had the same fate on several occasions, thank God it was saved. One thing, at least, is the last 20 years we haven't allowed much to be torn down and Little Rock is starting to get a historic, preservationist feel which I think it's paramount to keep.

The story of downtown you tell is the story of America's downtowns, it's nearly always the same. Downtowns had most of the shopping and social life in the days of the trolleys, the gasoline-powered bus and subsequent diaspora of development killed them all off. It's no different here in Dallas or in Memphis. The downtown department store was a highly endangered species. Little Rock is doing a BANGUP job, though, of bringing back downtown now. It's really something special.

When I was in Junior High and the Spaghetti Warehouse opened up downtown everyone was afraid to go down there and sadly it didn't survive long. Now that's probably the safest and nicest part of town, where you take your out-of-town visitors to look around. Nobody EVER walked around downtown then, now you'll see hordes on weekends.

[Aporkalypse]

That's because Little Rock is the only place is the state of Arkansas where high rises existed 20 years ago or so. In Texas, you have cities like Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio that are larger than Austin and probably captured the interest of developers a lot more earlier.

Huh?

You're missing my point. These cities made the same mistake LR did. They tore down and went vertical while leaving huge gaps at street level creating commuter-only downtowns. Dallas' downtown is still well behind Little Rock in catching up, they have only 1000 downtown residents in a city of 1.25 million and there is very, very little storefront and pedestrian-friendly development outside of the West End niche. The CBD is dead at night and on weekends. Office occupancy rates in the CBD are disappointing as they are in most big downtowns these days. Things are starting to come around, though, and residential development is taking off though you can't walk anywhere downtown at night.

Austin's development was late, of course, but because of this it developed in the way urban planners now suggest. Develop everything possible at street level before building up, use mixed residential/commercial development and don't leave gaps, keep things pedestrian-friendly. Ft Lauderdale and Ft Myers are new boomtowns playing by the same rules. Ft Lauderdale really did an excellent job.

[Arkansawyer]

You have to have parking decks to park but I would like to see more underground parking as you see at the Doubletree because it allows for denser construction and no "dead blocks".

The big issue I have is with surface parking. Many of the Allright parking lots were cool old buildings and now they sit as dead space. I'd rather have one parking deck than 5 surface lots.

Pick up a copy of Little Rock: A Postcard History and look at all of the buildings that used to be around that aren't anymore, it's tragic. A few burned but most were just torn down. I was a kid when 2 of Little Rock's oldest hotels were imploded to build the Excelsior. The Territorial Restoration and even the Old Statehouse almost had the same fate on several occasions, thank God it was saved. One thing, at least, is the last 20 years we haven't allowed much to be torn down and Little Rock is starting to get a historic, preservationist feel which I think it's paramount to keep.

The story of downtown you tell is the story of America's downtowns, it's nearly always the same. Downtowns had most of the shopping and social life in the days of the trolleys, the gasoline-powered bus and subsequent diaspora of development killed them all off. It's no different here in Dallas or in Memphis. The downtown department store was a highly endangered species. Little Rock is doing a BANGUP job, though, of bringing back downtown now. It's really something special.

When I was in Junior High and the Spaghetti Warehouse opened up downtown everyone was afraid to go down there and sadly it didn't survive long. Now that's probably the safest and nicest part of town, where you take your out-of-town visitors to look around. Nobody EVER walked around downtown then, now you'll see hordes on weekends.

I've heard it said that during urban renewal Little Rock was near the top in terms of destroying historic buildings downtown. It really is too bad to think that those parking lots we see used to be the location of great old buildings. I wish we could have held onto them until it became the trend to renovate old buildings.

The Spaghetti Warehouse was a cool restaurant. Isn't that where the Clinton School of Public Service is now?

Cafe St. Moritz used to be all alone on East Markham. It's funny that it closed before downtown really took off.

[skirby]

You have to have parking decks to park but I would like to see more underground parking as you see at the Doubletree because it allows for denser construction and no "dead blocks".

The big issue I have is with surface parking. Many of the Allright parking lots were cool old buildings and now they sit as dead space. I'd rather have one parking deck than 5 surface lots.

Pick up a copy of Little Rock: A Postcard History and look at all of the buildings that used to be around that aren't anymore, it's tragic. A few burned but most were just torn down. I was a kid when 2 of Little Rock's oldest hotels were imploded to build the Excelsior. The Territorial Restoration and even the Old Statehouse almost had the same fate on several occasions, thank God it was saved. One thing, at least, is the last 20 years we haven't allowed much to be torn down and Little Rock is starting to get a historic, preservationist feel which I think it's paramount to keep.

The story of downtown you tell is the story of America's downtowns, it's nearly always the same. Downtowns had most of the shopping and social life in the days of the trolleys, the gasoline-powered bus and subsequent diaspora of development killed them all off. It's no different here in Dallas or in Memphis. The downtown department store was a highly endangered species. Little Rock is doing a BANGUP job, though, of bringing back downtown now. It's really something special.

When I was in Junior High and the Spaghetti Warehouse opened up downtown everyone was afraid to go down there and sadly it didn't survive long. Now that's probably the safest and nicest part of town, where you take your out-of-town visitors to look around. Nobody EVER walked around downtown then, now you'll see hordes on weekends.

The LR you are talking about passed away before the 60's. The two hotels that were imploded were not that great when they were standing. The Lafayette and Albert Pike were much better and they are still standing. The implosion was great. That day probably set a record, up until that time, for people to turn out for an event along the river. Two of the three movie theaters have been torn down. One is now a parking lot and the other was replaced by a 30 story building. But all three were not in the same class of the great old theaters in other cities. Ninth Street burned along with parts of Seventh. On Captiol there were a couple of motels that have been torn down(no loss). A motel across from the old library was town down for a parking lot(no loss). The old hotel across from the train station burned down. One building I never did see except in pictures was the Arcade Building. It would have been a great building if it was still around. Back in the 60's & 70's when retail was Main Street there were no restaurants to go to for an evening out. I do not know of any building taller that three stories being torn down except for the Marion and Grady Manning hotels. I don't think LR has lost alot. With the right kind of development those parking lots can become places for people to live, work, shop and eat.

[Aporkalypse]

I've heard it said that during urban renewal Little Rock was near the top in terms of destroying historic buildings downtown. It really is too bad to think that those parking lots we see used to be the location of great old buildings. I wish we could have held onto them until it became the trend to renovate old buildings.

The Spaghetti Warehouse was a cool restaurant. Isn't that where the Clinton School of Public Service is now?

Cafe St. Moritz used to be all alone on East Markham. It's funny that it closed before downtown really took off.

Yes, it is the new Clinton School of Public Service. It's the old Choctaw Station of the old Rock Island Line that Johnny Cash wrote a song about. I think it dates back to 1909.

After it was Cafe St Moritz it became Trio's East and now is a supertrendy restaurant called Nu that is way more contemporary than any place I've seen in Arkansas. Iv'e been to one place like that in Dallas but I haven't seen a lot of places like that outside of the East Coast.