New $30 Million Kroc Community Center

[evac311]

Yes they are so descretely tucked away now, a block from the 2nd busiest street in Michigan.

There is no reason to think they'll be shooed away by this driveway.

That's not really the major point anyway. To me it's how inferier this site is in virtually all aspects compared to Lamar park.

They give up an awful lot to place it literally accross the street from the city of Wyoming on the far southwest corner of Grand Rapids.

It's less than a quarter mile from Garfield park. Most of the people who use it will be from Grand Rapids because there aren't many residents in that part of Wyoming, just warehouses and businesses.

Having grown up in this neighborhood, I know this area will benifit greatly from the center. It just makes perfect sense. This is going to drive up property values. And the quality of life for thousands of kids will be better. That area doesn't have much for kids to do, unless they're like me and don't mind playing in a gravel pit they're not even suppossed to be in. In a way, I am kind of jellous that I won't be there to enjoy it. I really love seeing my old neighborhood pick itself up. There are tons of buisnesses (legal ones, mind you) that have moved into the Division corridoor recently. It's encouraging to see. When I lived there, Wesco Bike Shop was still in business at Division/Alger, Meyer Music and Howerda Sports were there too up untill 5-10 years ago. I think this will do alot to get the hookers off the street, and I can personally atest to that being a big problem there-ever heard of the Rainbow Motel?

Everything goes in cycles.

[evac311]

Also, prostitution is a symptom of a bigger problem, which is poverty. If this can lift the quality and viability of the area, the poverty-related problems dissappear.

[twoshort]

..Nauta said Thursday his eyes were opened to the property's potential after Brian Prevost, a Garfield Park neighborhood resident and real estate agent, convinced him they could transform the site by acquiring the Division Avenue businesses that backed up to the city land...

So one person with vision can make a difference

so does he see a commission off of that? seriously.

[buzzkill]

So the answer then is to never do anything there because of the johns/prostitutes? Talk about giving up.

To me, the only way in which the Lamar Park site was better was that it was free. What this proves is that sometimes money isn't the only factor. Kudos to them for wanting to fit into the urban fabric that currently exists.

You saying the Godfrey Lee area isn't urban and in need of a lift? The demographics of the two sites are nearly identical.

In addition to being free, it also is directly connected to a huge park with all the ammenities it offered like soccer fields, ball fields, playgrounds, etc.

Also city-provided utilities are about half the cost in Wyoming compared to Grand Rapids.

Oh well, I guess the important thing is it's hopefully staying in West Michigan.

I also hear this has to get final approval from the regional Salvation Army board, they may look at this and make some corrections.

[GRDadof3]

It's less than a quarter mile from Garfield park. Most of the people who use it will be from Grand Rapids because there aren't many residents in that part of Wyoming, just warehouses and businesses.

Having grown up in this neighborhood, I know this area will benifit greatly from the center. It just makes perfect sense. This is going to drive up property values. And the quality of life for thousands of kids will be better. That area doesn't have much for kids to do, unless they're like me and don't mind playing in a gravel pit they're not even suppossed to be in. In a way, I am kind of jellous that I won't be there to enjoy it. I really love seeing my old neighborhood pick itself up. There are tons of buisnesses (legal ones, mind you) that have moved into the Division corridoor recently. It's encouraging to see. When I lived there, Wesco Bike Shop was still in business at Division/Alger, Meyer Music and Howerda Sports were there too up untill 5-10 years ago. I think this will do alot to get the hookers off the street, and I can personally atest to that being a big problem there-ever heard of the Rainbow Motel?

Everything goes in cycles.

I drove throught that part of Division a couple of weeks ago, and I was amazed at all the Hispanic-owned businesses in the area. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done, but it was better than being abandoned (like I seem to remember 4 or 5 years ago). It was very vibrant with people everywhere.

[evac311]

I drove throught that part of Division a couple of weeks ago, and I was amazed at all the Hispanic-owned businesses in the area. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done, but it was better than being abandoned (like I seem to remember 4 or 5 years ago). It was very vibrant with people everywhere.

I believe this area was designated as a renissance zone a few years ago, that could explain the business growth.

The power of locally-owned neighborhood business never ceases to amaze me. It is a vital aspect to the prosperity of a neighboorhood. You can know pretty much all there is to know about the wealth of a neighborhood by looking at the businesses.

For this reason, I believe some of the Kentwood/Byron Center sub-developments that are pricey and new now will be the ghettos of the next generation. They have zero sustainability without any centralization of services or residents.

[bostonsquaremom]

It's less than a quarter mile from Garfield park. Most of the people who use it will be from Grand Rapids because there aren't many residents in that part of Wyoming, just warehouses and businesses.

Having grown up in this neighborhood, I know this area will benifit greatly from the center. It just makes perfect sense. This is going to drive up property values. And the quality of life for thousands of kids will be better. That area doesn't have much for kids to do, unless they're like me and don't mind playing in a gravel pit they're not even suppossed to be in. In a way, I am kind of jellous that I won't be there to enjoy it.

If you take a look at the website for the San Diego Kroc Center, www.kroccenter.org, there's plenty of facilities and activities for adults too. The vision is that the proposed Kroc Centers will be patterned after the San Diego center. If the GR Kroc Center resembles anything like the San Diego Kroc Center, we're in for a real treat!

[Picture Michigan]

For whatever reason, when Garfield Park was rejected, I kind of thought the Diocese property on Burton would be a natural second choice.

It's price tag: a mere $6M.

http://public.carwm.com/public/carpagerpt....LS=362337&C=&B=

Perhaps another thread? Who would/could buy this property and do what with it? (and with my luck, there's already a thread on this topic and I completely missed it!)

[eagle]

ever heard of the Rainbow Motel?

Don't forget the Landmark Hotel

And the parking lot behind the bowling alley

(Based wholly on professional experiences.)

[GRDadof3]

If you take a look at the website for the San Diego Kroc Center, www.kroccenter.org, there's plenty of facilities and activities for adults too. The vision is that the proposed Kroc Centers will be patterned after the San Diego center. If the GR Kroc Center resembles anything like the San Diego Kroc Center, we're in for a real treat!

The exterior looks cool:

Architecture Review

[GRDadof3]

GR agrees to sell land for Kroc Center

Tuesday, April 25, 2006

By Jim Harger

The Grand Rapids Press

GRAND RAPIDS -- An arduous 18-month search to find property for a Salvation Army community center ended in applause Tuesday after city commissioners voted to sell eight acres of land on Grand Rapids' southern end.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...0880.xml&coll=6

More good news.

[bostonsquaremom]

I should have clarified...the programming offered is envisioned to be patterned after the San Diego Kroc Center. While the architecture at the SD Kroc Center is very interesting and exciting, we'll see what the GR site brings!

[civitas]

You saying the Godfrey Lee area isn't urban and in need of a lift? The demographics of the two sites are nearly identical.

In addition to being free, it also is directly connected to a huge park with all the ammenities it offered like soccer fields, ball fields, playgrounds, etc.

Also city-provided utilities are about half the cost in Wyoming compared to Grand Rapids.

Oh well, I guess the important thing is it's hopefully staying in West Michigan.

I also hear this has to get final approval from the regional Salvation Army board, they may look at this and make some corrections.

2000 Census data shows more than 3 times more people living within a 1 mile ring of the Grand Rapids site and almost twice as many within a 3 mile ring.

WYOMING SITE

1 Mile Ring - 5,218

3 Mile Ring - 74,238

5 Mile Ring - 228,549

GRAND RAPIDS SITE

1 Mile Ring - 17,238

3 Mile Ring - 135,452

5 Mile Ring - 283,513

[Veloise]

Yes they are so descretely tucked away now, a block from the 2nd busiest street in Michigan.

...

Woodward, Southfield Road, and Telegraph imediately spring to mind as being much busier than Division (typed the former westsider). Lessee...Novi Road, Washtenaw, Gratiot, Grand River, Michigan Ave between Ypsi and Campus Martius.

I like Division and feel comfortable cycling on most parts of it. Can't say that about any of the above Detroit-area streets.

(Many of these experience the same sort of activity, BTW, and I don't mean bicycling.)

[GRGyp]

Woodward, Southfield Road, and Telegraph imediately spring to mind as being much busier than Division (typed the former westsider). Lessee...Novi Road, Washtenaw, Gratiot, Grand River, Michigan Ave between Ypsi and Campus Martius.

I like Division and feel comfortable cycling on most parts of it. Can't say that about any of the above Detroit-area streets.

(Many of these experience the same sort of activity, BTW, and I don't mean bicycling.)

You don't need to list Detroit, I have tough time believing Division is the 2nd busiest road in the metro area, let alone the state.

28th Street

44th Street

East Belt Line

Michigan up to Fuller

Alpine Ave

I work off of Division and still feel safe enough to J-walk across 5 lanes of traffic to get a pop from the gas station across the street. (That's, of course, when the lunch room pop machine breaksdown. It's so old I can see club marks from the neanderthals that beat on the machine when it gave them incorrect change.) Trying that on the 5 streets listed above would just get me turned into roadkill.

[numstead]

I don't think buzzkill was talking about Division Ave., but rather 28th Street, even though its slightly farther than a block away

[Rizzo]

If thats the case M-11 or 28th St. ranges from 28,000 cars in some places to 50,000 vehicles closer to 131.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/grandrap_19648_7.pdf

[GRGyp]

I don't think buzzkill was talking about Division Ave., but rather 28th Street, even though its slightly farther than a block away

And that just maps out state and US designated highways. I know that Michigan and Fuller was listed the busiest intersection in Grand Rapids in recent years, which surprised me because when I heard that news I would of guessed 28th and the East Beltline for that title. It wouldn't surprise me that M-11 is the second busiest state highway in Michigan, but I don't know if that would still be the case if you included all roads that are not state highways as well.

[GRDadof3]

The "Kroc Effect"...

Will it be that much of a development driver?

[snoogit]

with all the problems that side of GR has had lately, this could be a great catalyst for helping that area.

[numstead]

There was a rendering in the Press yesterday, did anyone happen to snag it and scan it?

[Veloise]

"An estimated 11,000 children younger than 17 live within a one-mile radius of the Horton site, which borders Plaster Creek and a soon-to-be completed bicycle trail that runs through the city's Southeast Side."

Hope it succeeds beyond their wildest dreams!

[dbrok]

Apparently if the remaining $7.5 million is raised soon, groundbreaking could begin February 2007.

[OneSweetWorld]

If you can't read the caption:

"Plans for the $15 million Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Center, proposed near South Division Avenue and Alger Street, may include a swimming pool, climbing wall, gymnasium, health clinic, basketball courts, performing arts center, classrooms, worship center, ice rink, soccer field and sledding hill."

I guess I don't know how this would work. Would it be like a YMCA or MVP, where everyone who goes has to be a member, or do you just walk in, pay, and start playing?

Anyway, here's my opinion, whether you want to hear it or not:

I don't like it. It looks too suburban (especially with that stupid parking lot right smack dab in the middle of it). I also don't like the idea of a worship center. I know I know, the Salvation Army is a Christian Organization, but I just don't think it's needed.

just my two...

[the03avenger]

Well anything is better than what is there now