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New $30 Million Kroc Community Center

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I also don't like the idea of a worship center. I know I know, the Salvation Army is a Christian Organization, but I just don't think it's needed.

just my two...

It's privately owned. They can determine whether they "need" a worship center or not.

I think it will be great for the area. And do I see a couple of "green" roofs?

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snoogit Town

snoogit

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I also don't like the idea of a worship center. I know I know, the Salvation Army is a Christian Organization, but I just don't think it's needed.

just my two...

This is the big reason why it wasnt put on garfield park. this time its on privately owned land, and will have no ties at all to the city. I was for this project, but felt that this issue meant it should be placed somewhere thats not city property.

We should be happy we are getting one of these, IIRC Detroit isn't getting one.

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Veloise City

Veloise

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...I also don't like the idea of a worship center. I know I know, the Salvation Army is a Christian Organization, but I just don't think it's needed.

The DT "Y" has a chapel. I've heard that it is never used. (It's a rec center, fer cryin' out loud! People are there to swim and work out and climb and play basketball, not to pray.) There's also some scripture on the walls on various photos. I'd rather see a separation of church and gym.

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snoogit Town

snoogit

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The DT "Y" has a chapel. I've heard that it is never used. (It's a rec center, fer cryin' out loud! People are there to swim and work out and climb and play basketball, not to pray.) There's also some scripture on the walls on various photos. I'd rather see a separation of church and gym.

Isnt it pretty much that way already, IIRC that chapen is tucked into a corner and is empty all the time.

I guess its not a bad spot to get married if you're fitness freaks :P

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numstead Hamlet

numstead

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I don't like it. It looks too suburban (especially with that stupid parking lot right smack dab in the middle of it).

You can't avoid parking lots. Besides, Garfield Park has three parking lots. Is Garfield Park too suburban?

Thanks for taking the effort to post the picture though. Thats very much appreciated!

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joeDowntown Metropolis

joeDowntown

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Overall from what I can tell of the Press scan, it looks nice. What creek runs through the property?

I think this will help help solidify Alger as one of the best neighborhoods in GR. I don't really know much about the way Salvation Army centers are run, but it looks like it'll be an asset for the whole south side.

I agree with golscorer. You have to have parking lots. It's a fact. To think GR will turn into a mass transit-nobody drives city at the snap of the finger is fiction. People need to come to terms with that. ;)

Joe

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GRCentro Hamlet

GRCentro

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The DT "Y" has a chapel. I've heard that it is never used. (It's a rec center, fer cryin' out loud! People are there to swim and work out and climb and play basketball, not to pray.) There's also some scripture on the walls on various photos. I'd rather see a separation of church and gym.

Normally it would be silly to complain about a chapel in a YMCA. In this case, though, I agree that it is stupid. It certainly doesn't bother me that a chapel exists, but this one is small, clumsy, and in the back corner of the second floor. I've never seen anyone go in there, and to my knowledge, none of the Y's programing utilizes it. It feels like an obligatory afterthought that they were embarrased to include.

Maybe I'm wrong though; maybe someone finds it useful...

Back on topic, I'm glad the Kroc Center is making headway. The image is too small to make any real judgements, but what I see so far looks fine to me. I don't understand complaints about parking. At least they didn't set the building back a quarter mile and put all the parking in front. That would've been suburban. ;)

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concretepoem Whistle-Stop

concretepoem

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It's nice to see some decisive progress on this project, especially since it was almost run out of town...

South Division, and the neighborhoods adjacent to it, is the key issue effecting this city's long term health. Until there's sustained revitalization along the entire stretch of South Division from Fulton to 28th Street, all the other developments around GR are of diminished value. GR can talk the talk, but it can't walk the walk on withered legs. And South Division and Eastern Avenue are the legs of this city.

I'm not expecting the new car dealerships to return, but there's got to be a vision where the some of the major retailers can be located somewhere along that stretch. Getting the traffic that flows through this region to get off the 131 exits at Hall, Wealthy, etc and onto South Division to shop, eat, recreate and maybe even live has to be the goal, long term. The Salvation Army's new center and its location in the center of that sad stretch is an very important step that direction.

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numstead Hamlet

numstead

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South Division, and the neighborhoods adjacent to it, is the key issue effecting this city's long term health. Until there's sustained revitalization along the entire stretch of South Division from Fulton to 28th Street, all the other developments around GR are of diminished value. GR can talk the talk, but it can't walk the walk on withered legs. And South Division and Eastern Avenue are the legs of this city.

I'm not expecting the new car dealerships to return, but there's got to be a vision where the some of the major retailers can be located somewhere along that stretch. Getting the traffic that flows through this region to get off the 131 exits at Hall, Wealthy, etc and onto South Division to shop, eat, recreate and maybe even live has to be the goal, long term. The Salvation Army's new center and its location in the center of that sad stretch is an very important step that direction.

I would agree with that. The rebuilding of Division Avenue in Burton Heights and all the new underground utilities is a good sign that the city is committed to that neighborhood. It's been an inconvenience getting to and from work for the last couple months with Burton closed at Division, but I can deal with that if it helps the community.

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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I would agree with that. The rebuilding of Division Avenue in Burton Heights and all the new underground utilities is a good sign that the city is committed to that neighborhood. It's been an inconvenience getting to and from work for the last couple months with Burton closed at Division, but I can deal with that if it helps the community.

I hope to see that stretch of Division dolled up in a similar manner as parts of Heartside. Street trees, Bulb-outs, decrative treatment to the sidwalks, etc. Speaking of which, did anybody noticed the innersection of 28th and Division? It looks like either Wyoming or GR is adding some decrative retaining walls to the north east corner.

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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I hope to see that stretch of Division dolled up in a similar manner as parts of Heartside. Street trees, Bulb-outs, decrative treatment to the sidwalks, etc. Speaking of which, did anybody noticed the innersection of 28th and Division? It looks like either Wyoming or GR is adding some decrative retaining walls to the north east corner.

Division north of 28th a ways, just went through a rebuild -- bulb outs, trees, etc... looks nice. I can see that intersection becoming a transit hub for that rail line. Imagine walkability, scale, trees on that intersection.

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Allison Slater Town

Allison Slater

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although outside Grand Rapids proper, the re-working of Division between 68th & 60th is looking like it will be really nice as well, despite them taking their sweet time to do it. (It's taken them a few weeks just to install a curb through that section). Soon all it will need is some better building planning, with perhaps diagonal parking in front like near 44th & division, rather than suburban sprawl. The setup they've got for the sidewalks and lighting would really compliment such lot design quite well.

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eagle Whistle-Stop

eagle

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The DT "Y" has a chapel. I've heard that it is never used. (It's a rec center, fer cryin' out loud! People are there to swim and work out and climb and play basketball, not to pray.) There's also some scripture on the walls on various photos. I'd rather see a separation of church and gym.

I'm sure you're probably kidding here :unsure: but "fer cryin' out loud" the Y's stated mission is "To put Christian principles into practice through programs that build healthy spirit, mind and body for all." "YMCA stands for Young Men's Christian Association, but don't misinterpret this to mean that YMCAs are only for "young, Christian men." From its start more than 150 years ago, when George Williams founded the YMCA as a substitute Bible study and prayer for life on the streets."

The Y is not just a gym. It is not just another place to "swim and work out and climb and play basketball" My wife is in management at the Y and this is an image they constantly try to correct. The Y is an outreach into the community. That's the reason for all the "strong-kids campaigns," camps, and fundraisers to help lower income children enjoy the facilities and the mentorship with Christian principles :shok: .

Does it bother you that the directors and managers have devotions with their staff? That they start meetings with prayer? Maybe you should find a facility that isn't named the "Young Man's Christian Association!"

From the Salvation Army's website "The Salvation Army, an international movement, is an evangelical part of the universal Christian Church. Its message is based on the Bible. Its ministry is motivated by the love of God. Its mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His name without discrimination." Is it enrealistic for an organization like this to have a chapel? It sounds like some of you need to take a look at their website http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_us...3A?openDocument

before you can back this project if just knowing they'll have a chapel upsets you.

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nexpark Crossroads

nexpark

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The chapel at the Kroc Center will be heavily utilized. For worship, performing arts, and other uses.

Although YMCAs and Kroc Centers share many similarities, you'll also find many areas in which they differ. Because it was part of Joan Kroc's vision, Kroc Centers also have a significant focus on the Arts in addition to fitness... "The Kroc Center will house a recording studio and offer vocal and instrumental training, drama, dance, performing arts, and multi-cultural activities. We even have the capacity to stage concerts, symphonies, plays and dance recitals." A quote from Major Roger Ross, the co-administrator of the future Grand Rapids TSA - RJKCCC.

I for one am ecstatic about the integration of religious values and beliefs in such a facility rather than it being completely secular. Even if you don't share the same religious beliefs, I would think that most people appreciate the environment of guidance and values that a highly respected organization like the TSA brings with it. Same with the YMCA. They're not just places for kids and families to hang out, but they're also places to find good role models in an environment of family values.

From the Grand Rapids Kroc Center website - FAQ:

"What is the mission of the Kroc Community Centers?

The Kroc Community Centers will provide facilities, programs and services that encourage positive life-changing experiences for children and adults, strengthening for families, and life enrichment for seniors. "

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Veloise City

Veloise

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I'm sure you're probably kidding here :unsure: but "fer cryin' out loud" the Y's stated mission is "To put Christian principles into practice through programs that build healthy spirit, mind and body for all." "YMCA stands for Young Men's Christian Association, but don't misinterpret this to mean that YMCAs are only for "young, Christian men." ...

...

That's the reason for all the "strong-kids campaigns," camps, and fundraisers to help lower income children enjoy the facilities and the mentorship with Christian principles :shok: .

Does it bother you that the directors and managers have devotions with their staff? That they start meetings with prayer? Maybe you should find a facility that isn't named the "Young Man's Christian Association!"

... Is it enrealistic for an organization like this to have a chapel? It sounds like some of you need to take a look at their website http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_us...3A?openDocument

before you can back this project if just knowing they'll have a chapel upsets you.

Geeze, calm down! That was two whole months ago.

Maybe the director started using the chapel because others had noticed its lack of use. (I was told that by someone who works in the building.)

Defensive much?

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Rizzo City

Rizzo

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For God has said unto us, "To each of you -- please get along. You are all welcome in my heavenly kingdom, my earthly kingdom, and America's largest urban YMCA." So on after the word was spoken, "May you swim, box, and pray to me under one roof. It's all good my son and daughter."

Let us pray.

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