First SC metro to get a major league professional sports team

[krazeeboi]

I can somewhat understand 803metlife's frustration here. I think the regional exposure can be good (although the spotlight largely gets shined on Charlotte), but SC truly needs a major league team of its own to get some decent exposure when it comes to pro sports--but that's if you care about pro sports in the first place, which a lot of people do. But when it comes to college sports, SC colleges can actually have a significant influence on Charlotte, as the following map demonstrates:

Link

In the future please post a link to a gif this large

[803metlife]

We do share a common name with N.C. but that's all.Two different states with different laws. I'm not complaining. But I wish we had more drive to stand alone as a state. I have no problem wth the panthers representing both states.But are we ever going to have anything really representing s.c.??Baltimore and D.C. is similar in distance and both have manage to support professional sports. I would like Columbia and Charlotte to have something similar to the Balt/D.C. area.

[sonofaque86]

The NC/SC border line is in imaginary line...Charlotte is basically in the middle of the Carolinas and I think the Panthers represent both states pretty well. Play in Charlotte practice in Spartanburg...SC is so small that most major cities in SC are closer to Charlotte than alot of major cities in NC...It still would be nice to have a team of our own one day.

[goodbye]

I thought it very interesting that the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are not well-supported in Florida. They are interested in moving - possibly to LV or OKC.

[krazeeboi]

Then you have to think about the statistics. Whenever pro sports teams are listed by state, SC will be the one coming up short. Although the Panthers represent both states, the team plays in NC, and the revenue goes to NC. There will come a time when SC will get tired of simply boosting the statistics of teams located in NC while getting none of the prestige or revenue.

[The_sandlapper]

I hit that about ten years ago

[krazeeboi]

I had go back to the previous page and see what comment you were responding to, because at first glance I thought you were referring to something TOTALLY different.

Well, great minds do think alike, even if the second one comes along eons later.

[803metlife]

Then you have to think about the statistics. Whenever pro sports teams are listed by state, SC will be the one coming up short. Although the Panthers represent both states, the team plays in NC, and the revenue goes to NC. There will come a time when SC will get tired of simply boosting the statistics of teams located in NC while getting none of the prestige or revenue.

exactly !!

[Greenville]

The NC/SC border line is in imaginary line...Charlotte is basically in the middle of the Carolinas and I think the Panthers represent both states pretty well. Play in Charlotte practice in Spartanburg...SC is so small that most major cities in SC are closer to Charlotte than alot of major cities in NC...It still would be nice to have a team of our own one day.

As I have said before, perhaps in this thread, calling the Panthers "Carolina" instead of "Charlotte" was purely a public relations/marketing move. Think about it. Before the Panthers, SC was mostly comprised of Falcons fans, with some Redskins fans from when they were SC's "home team" (years ago, before the Falcons). If the Panthers had called themselves Charlotte, they would have failed to attract a number of fans because those fans would have assumed that Charlotte was a team only for NC fans. But from day one, the Panthers said that they are "Carolina" because it is a team for BOTH states. They aren't stupid, guys (and I don't blame them for marketing the team that way). They knew that there were a lot of football fans in both NC and SC who wanted to latch onto a "home team." This has proven to be a good strategy for them, as I am sure they have a lot of season ticket holders and supporters from SC. They also probably converted many SC residents (who were once fans of another team) to Panthers fans. Playing the first season in Clemson probably didn't hurt relations either, since Clemson fans make up a lot of SC's college football fan base.

[krazeeboi]

Oh yeah, Richardson is a businessman; he knows what he's doing.

But Charlotte, an NC city, is still getting all the prestige though. I don't even know if the average Joe (outside of SC and NC) knows that the team represents both Carolinas.

[monsoon]

It should be noted that Richardson is a SC businessman and a graduate from Wofford, who made his fortunes from the Spartan Corporation which became the largest food service corporation in SC. Any guesses as to what city it was located in?

Thus, the Carolina Panthers were created, owned and operated by a SC businessman. What more do you want in terms of SC involvement?

Any ML team is for sale. Charlotte got its second NBA franchise simply due to the fact they paid almost $300,000,000.00 for it. If it wasn't for that money there would be no NBA in CLT today. I am sure that any city in SC, that really wants a team, only has to shell out the cash for it.

[Infinite1]

As I have said before, perhaps in this thread, calling the Panthers "Carolina" instead of "Charlotte" was purely a public relations/marketing move. Think about it. Before the Panthers, SC was mostly comprised of Falcons fans, with some Redskins fans from when they were SC's "home team" (years ago, before the Falcons). If the Panthers had called themselves Charlotte, they would have failed to attract a number of fans because those fans would have assumed that Charlotte was a team only for NC fans. But from day one, the Panthers said that they are "Carolina" because it is a team for BOTH states. They aren't stupid, guys (and I don't blame them for marketing the team that way). They knew that there were a lot of football fans in both NC and SC who wanted to latch onto a "home team." This has proven to be a good strategy for them, as I am sure they have a lot of season ticket holders and supporters from SC. They also probably converted many SC residents (who were once fans of another team) to Panthers fans. Playing the first season in Clemson probably didn't hurt relations either, since Clemson fans make up a lot of SC's college football fan base.

Actually, they are called "Carolina" becuase the Charlotte market was seen as too small to support an NFL team, so they marketed it as a Carolina team and included demographics (and TV markets) from a 150 mile radius to sell the fact that they could support the team. The competition at the time (St Louis) had a much larger primary TV market, but the combined TV Markets of the NC/SC megamarket (and savvy salesmanship by Jerry Richardson) landed the expanion team in Charlotte. Realistically, the population density is not available for any SC city to support a team. The upstate probably is closest in terms of TV Markets, but they are sandwiched between Charloote and Atlanta and I don't think there is enoughsupport for all 3.

[Charleston native]

Any ML team is for sale. Charlotte got its second NBA franchise simply due to the fact they paid almost $300,000,000.00 for it. If it wasn't for that money there would be no NBA in CLT today. I am sure that any city in SC, that really wants a team, only has to shell out the cash for it.

This is very true. Right now, the only person I know that has the ability to eventually shell out that kind of money is a Charleston investor named Jerry Zucker, who recently acquired the Hudson Bay Clothing Company. He recently was added to the US billionaire's list. He already owns the Chas hockey team, the Stingrays, so eventually when Chas reaches an appropriate population, I think he could find a struggling NHL team to buy and relocate in Chas. His better chance would be to create an MLS team to replace the A-League Chas Battery, a team that usually has high attendance, especially since the NHL isn't a great market right now.

[Infinite1]

Any ML team is for sale. Charlotte got its second NBA franchise simply due to the fact they paid almost $300,000,000.00 for it. If it wasn't for that money there would be no NBA in CLT today. I am sure that any city in SC, that really wants a team, only has to shell out the cash for it.

any expansion team anywhere would have had to pay that fee. It wasn't a bidding situation where Charlotte outbid everyone. First the pick the expansion market, then they determine the franchise fee. That fee is unusally high because the NBA is bringing in unusually high revenues. That $300M is the cost for the right to share in the NBA revenue stream.

[Greenville]

Any ML team is for sale. Charlotte got its second NBA franchise simply due to the fact they paid almost $300,000,000.00 for it. If it wasn't for that money there would be no NBA in CLT today. I am sure that any city in SC, that really wants a team, only has to shell out the cash for it.

That is not exactly true. The NBA has a strict set of guidelines that a city/metro must meet in order to be eligible for a franchise. They look at population density, population within a certain radius, per capita income, age demographics, television market size, history supporting previous professional and minor league teams, etc.

Despite the recent study that all 3 SC metros could support at least one major pro franchise, I am confident that an SC metro would need to grow significantly in population as well as in affluency in order to be competitive for a pro franchise. I would love to see it happen, but realistically that is years away (if ever). That has little to do with a city's proximity to other pro markets, and a lot to do with the city's predicted ability to support a team.

[monsoon]

any expansion team anywhere would have had to pay that fee. It wasn't a bidding situation where Charlotte outbid everyone. First the pick the expansion market, then they determine the franchise fee. That fee is unusally high because the NBA is bringing in unusually high revenues. That $300M is the cost for the right to share in the NBA revenue stream.

Charlotte did not pay a $300,000,000.00 franchise fee. I am not sure where you got that idea from.

Charlotte built a $300,000,000.00 arena downtown and gave Robert Johnson, the owner of the Bobcats, exclusive control over it. He gets all revenue generated by the arena, including all amounts generated by non-NBA events such high school graduations, he got the naming rights, and the doesn't have to pay any property taxes and insurance on the building because it is still owned by the city. The city is also on the hook to pay more than a $1 million/year to provide him free police traffic control. The city cannot schedule any event in the arena as that is controlled by the Bobcats.

In comparison Charlotte is only spending $149M of its own money to build its first light rail line to give you an idea how much money we are talking about. If Charlotte had not done this there would not have been a Bobcats.

Any city in SC wishing to do the same thing can get a team and until they are willing to foot this kind of bill it isn't going to happen.

Likewise on the earlier discussion on the Carolina Panthers, that deal did not happen until they got the money together to pay for a stadium in downtown Charlotte. To my knowledge not one city in SC offered up any cash to pay for it as all money to build that stadium came from Charlotte, Mecklenburg county, and the PSL owners. If you ask me, because of that, the name should be changed to the Charlotte Panthers as it was the Charlotte taxpayers that paid for the thing.

[erm1981]

Greenville will probably be the first to be to 1 million in SC. Already over 400,000. Columbia is still in the 300,000 range.

[krazeeboi]

Are you speaking of county populations? If so, I don't really see how that alone figures into having the population necessary to support a major league pro sports franchise.

[Infinite1]

Charlotte did not pay a $300,000,000.00 franchise fee. I am not sure where you got that idea from.

from ESPN is one source of many....

"The franchise is to begin play in the 2004-05 season and replaces the Hornets, who moved to New Orleans earlier this year. After one year at the Charlotte Coliseum, the team will move into a new $260 million downtown arena. The franchise fee is expected to be $300 million."

check it yourself here

[goodbye]

Greenville will probably be the first to be to 1 million in SC. Already over 400,000. Columbia is still in the 300,000 range.

In terms of city population, Columbia is "far" larger than Greenville (without taking daily population #s into consideration). I think regional population would be a greater factor in landing a pro team, in which case, the Upstate (Greenville) has an easy advantage. I really don't care if we have a new football, baseball, basketball, or hockey team, but I would be thrilled to see a smallish stadium built downtown for an MLS team.

I agree with monsoon regarding initial funding being a huge factor in acquiring any professional team.

[monsoon]

from ESPN is one source of many....

"The franchise is to begin play in the 2004-05 season and replaces the Hornets, who moved to New Orleans earlier this year. After one year at the Charlotte Coliseum, the team will move into a new $260 million downtown arena. The franchise fee is expected to be $300 million."

check it yourself here

The city absolutely did not pay that fee.

[Infinite1]

The city absolutely did not pay that fee.

I never said that the CITY paid that fee. An assertion was made that the ONLY reason Charlotte got a team was becasue the ownership paid $300M. I was just making the point that first the ownership/team was chsoen and then the franchise fee was decided. Any other owner, in any other location, would have paid the same fee. I'm not sure how you got the idea that I said the City paid the fee.

[monsoon]

Because I said any city willing to pay up, what Charlotte did, can get a team and that was how you responded. To the taxpayers of the city, the arrangements between Johnson and the NBA are irrelevant.

[Infinite1]

Because I said any city willing to pay up, what Charlotte did, can get a team and that was how you responded. To the taxpayers of the city, the arrangements between Johnson and the NBA are irrelevant.

I see....you were referring to the City's willingness to foot the bill for the stadium. Do to the similarities in the $$$, I thought your were talking about the franchise fee (also $300M). A simple matter of communication.

With that said, any city realistically thinking of landing a ML Franchise will have to pony up $$$ for a new or improved stadium, The standard has been set.

[Charleston native]

I see....you were referring to the City's willingness to foot the bill for the stadium. Do to the similarities in the $$$, I thought your were talking about the franchise fee (also $300M). A simple matter of communication.

With that said, any city realistically thinking of landing a ML Franchise will have to pony up $$$ for a new or improved stadium, The standard has been set.

That is why economically, I believe Chas might be the first albeit will be decades from now. The city has the prestige or affluence, the city rakes in alot of $$$ through tourism, there is a population influx with new workers and retirees, and it is the only major city in SC virtually isolated from any other ML market. In these days of expansion, especially in the South, potential owners are not going to risk competing with other major markets, such as major college sports (USC in Cola) or a market sandwiched between 2 other major markets (G'ville in between Atlanta and Charlotte).