What SC cities are competing with Columbia

[krazeeboi]

I understand superjack.

[waccamatt]

The Laurens reference is to the city of Laurens. There is a Confederacy/KKK memoribilla shop there that got a lot of press awhile back.

Having diversity and showing tolerance are actually two different things. Vermont, just to use an example, is very tolerant, but is not very diverse. Vermont is about 99% WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). However, it is the only state that legally recognizes gay civil unions.

Having lived in both cities, it is my opinion that Columbia is both more diverse and more tolerant. Richland County isn't too far from having a majority of minorities. Greenville is 70-75% caucasian. Protestant religions are equally dominant.

On the tolerance side, controversies like the MLK day (there is one in Gville County now BTW), the anti-gay resolution, etc. would really be unimaginable in Columbia/Richland County. The fury against such measures would be deafening.

But those controveries are the result of a small number of elected officials and some narrow minded religious elements. The average person in both cities seem pretty tolerant for the most part. Now if only the so called 'leaders' would follow suit.

I agree with Vic. You can't necessarily change the diversity of a community, but you can do something about the acceptance of people different from yourself. (I prefer the term acceptance to the word tolerance. I feel being tolerant of something simply means "you put up with it") As far as comfort, yes you can find a comfort zone in most decent-sized cities, but I think career-wise, I can go further in Columbia as an openly gay man than I could in Greenville. (this is generally speaking, I know there are exceptions in both cities)

[waccamatt]

Obviously an uneducated statement. Every city has citizens who don't like certain lifestyles or cultures (including Columbia), but Greenville has proven itself quite capable of being a welcome home to every kind of group imaginable. Of course Greenville and the Upstate are politically more conservative than Columbia, but you can't lump all of our many liberal friends living here into that generalized statement. The Chairman of the SC Democratic Party, Joe Erwin, also lives in Greenville.

Waccamatt, I know you're an educated man who ambitiously supports your city, but that statement stuck out to me.

Skyliner, yes every city has both accepting and intolerant people, but my points about Greenville stand: Greenville County has institutional bias: namely the MLK birthday controversy and the anti-gay resolution. When intolerance is ingrained in a community's institutions one has to think twice before wanting to live there.

[803metlife]

Skyliner, yes every city has both accepting and intolerant people, but my points about Greenville stand: Greenville County has institutional bias: namely the MLK birthday controversy and the anti-gay resolution. When intolerance is ingrained in a community's institutions one has to think twice before wanting to live there.

Not accepting the MLK birthday was a big eye opener!! That says it all. But what was the reason for Greenville not accepting MLK birthday?? Is greenville the only city in s.c. that waived the right not to celeabrate MLK Bday?

[vicupstate]

Not accepting the MLK birthday was a big eye opener!! That says it all. But what was the reason for Greenville not accepting MLK birthday?? Is greenville the only city in s.c. that waived the right not to celeabrate MLK Bday?

It was not the city, it was the county.

The County Council was controlled by right wing nuts at the time. In the election since then, the philosophical mindset has shifted enough that the holiday was approved. The King holiday was a key issue in defeating the anti-King council members.

[The_sandlapper]

Sounds similar as to how Columbia always gets blamed for flying the confederate flag, when the flag flys on state property and not city property. People seem to miss that as well. The city doesn't have any control over state policy.

[sonofaque86]

Sounds similar as to how Columbia always gets blamed for flying the confederate flag, when the flag flys on state property and not city property. People seem to miss that as well. The city doesn't have any control over state policy.

That's SC for you

[GvilleSC]

It was not the city, it was the county.

The County Council was controlled by right wing nuts at the time. In the election since then, the philosophical mindset has shifted enough that the holiday was approved. The King holiday was a key issue in defeating the anti-King council members.

so they said, they couldn't afford to pay people to take yet another day off during the year...

[803metlife]

so they said, they couldn't afford to pay people to take yet another day off during the year...

It's funny how sc does things backwards. I think the state is know for shooting it's own self in the foot. The things that the state tries to uphold are the same reasons why we can't move ahead like all other cities. The first state succeed from the colonies the last state to succeed in everything else.

[krazeeboi]

^That's only Greenville County, not other counties which have observed MLK Day for years. SC has some catching up to do, but we haven't gotten everything wrong.

[Spartan]

It was not the city, it was the county.

The County Council was controlled by right wing nuts at the time. In the election since then, the philosophical mindset has shifted enough that the holiday was approved. The King holiday was a key issue in defeating the anti-King council members.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MLK Day put to referendum? Regardless of that, there was no rule saying that the County employees couldn't take MLK Day off if they wanted to. The arguement was that it wasn't mandatory. Its a weak argument to attribute a lack of tolerance in that situation, particularly since the issue has since been resolved.

Besides that, it is an absolute waste of time to harp on this one issue to prove that Greenville lacks tolerance. If that is all you have to make your point then. BJU does not reflect the enire community, and it should not be a stretch to recognize that.

The topic at hand is what SC cities are competing with Columbia. Its not just Greenville. What about Charleston?

Charleston has alot going for it, and its the only SC city besides Greenville that can 'compete' with it. It has the colleges, a top-rated medical school and hospitals, the Port, etc. The center of the economy is obviously very different from Columbia, but I believe it can compete.

[Infinite1]

do believe that that creates somewhat of diversity and you know, it's sad to say, but that's what you get with a well educated workforce and lower poverty than the other major cities in the state.

...wow...so low poverty and educated equals "less diverse"....interesting. I believe it was pointed our earlier that Cola has the higher percentage of college grads...nevertheless...it is my sincere belief that each of SC 3 mid-major cities is growing and capitalizing on its own virtue. The area have different economies and different focuses (foci?)

That being said, I think most people will suprised by Charleston's numbers at the next enumeration. The lowcountry is simply ablaze with growth and activity. That combined with an international tourist reputation, lowcountry charm, and of course water access, will probably push Charleston into the "major" city realm prior to any other city.

[GvilleSC]

WEll, you guys say Greenville is less diverse... so it more than likely is due to a well educated population and the lowest poverty of SC's largest cities. It is sad to say, but it is true that more minorities make up the population in poverty and minorities contribute to diversity do they not?

[sonofaque86]

WEll, you guys say Greenville is less diverse... so it more than likely is due to a well educated population and the lowest poverty of SC's largest cities. It is sad to say, but it is true that more minorities make up the population in poverty and minorities contribute to diversity do they not?

WtF?

[Temeteron]

Ok that was uncalled for.......and very inaccurate

[krazeeboi]

WEll, you guys say Greenville is less diverse... so it more than likely is due to a well educated population and the lowest poverty of SC's largest cities. It is sad to say, but it is true that more minorities make up the population in poverty and minorities contribute to diversity do they not?

Wow.

Columbia is practically

[The_sandlapper]

WEll, you guys say Greenville is less diverse... so it more than likely is due to a well educated population and the lowest poverty of SC's largest cities. It is sad to say, but it is true that more minorities make up the population in poverty and minorities contribute to diversity do they not?

Wow unbelieveable statement!!!??? Even to this day that type of statement truly amazes me! That type of thinking is why I gladly left the Greenville area.

I do have an measure of "educational attainment/success" in the state. Using the three largest counties in the states 3 largest metro areas (since that is what most of us refer to when we speak about our "Metro" areas) I found that the Columbia "metro" despite having the second largest number of minorities at 32%, also has the highest median household income (MHI) at approximately 41K. Charleston with the highest % of minorities 34%, MHI is at 40K, and Greenville with the fewest at 23% of minorities has a MHI of at 38K. That's a weak argument! The info is all there just check the census.

[GvilleSC]

You guys are thinking the wrong way. It is no contest that more minorities for whatever reason round out the bottom of the social classes in America. Right? Yes. Not trying to be racist. And races, black, hispanic, whatever... make up diversity right? Yes. More high school drop outs are minorities, no contest. No one can argue those points.

Another fact: Greenville has the lowest poverty of the big three. And all I'm hearing is "greenville isn't diverse... yada yada yada"

I NEVER said that Greenville had the highest paying jobs or the most highly educated population, what I said was the education level that does exist in conjunction with the lowest of poverty rates creates a less diverse society. Becuase diversity is not all about race but also social classes and the balance that exists. If Greenville has less poverty, then yes, it's less diverse- not saying that means some race is more or less represented but that a social class is less represented.

THERE IS A DIRECT CORRELATION between the points.

I'm sorry if you guys can't understand what i'm trying to say. I'm just connecting issues here, i'm not trying to step on toes. None of these things are observations or opinions. They are the truth and perhaps we need to take steps to change the facts, but they won't go away if you avoid them and pretend that they don't exist. And if you're viewing all of Greenville's population in a certain way because of what i said, then you're the uneducated one.

[goodbye]

This whole debate over race is rediculous! I think the government is absolutely contradictory to survey any statistic based on race, and then say we all are equal. The way I see it, the United States were made up of many different races, but race is (and should be) becoming less definitive since we're all "one nation." Talking about people by describing there skin color is not helping anything, IMO. Additionally, if a person is offended by what another says about him or her, I say, tough, live with it. This would help the entire situation dwindle away. But it just doesn't make sense for the Government to still "seperate" citizens of the U.S. by race, IMO!

[krazeeboi]

OK, let's start with some poverty/education figures for each city and its respective county just so everyone knows what we're talking about here, concretely (I hope Spartan takes no offense at the county figures here ). These will reflect the 2000 official figures (except the poverty stats, which are from 1999 according to the Census). The educational attainment figures are for persons age 25 and up.

Charleston

City figures

Non-white population: 36.9%

Poverty: 19.1%

HS graduates: 52.3%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 37.5%

County figures

Non-white population: 38.1%

Poverty: 16.4%

HS graduates: 81.5%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 30.7%

Columbia

City figures

Non-white population: 50.8%

Poverty: 22.1%

HS graduates: 46.6%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 35.7%

County figures

Non-white population: 49.7%

Poverty: 13.7%

HS graduates: 85.2%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 32.5%

Greenville

City figures

Non-white population: 37.9%

Poverty: 16.1%

HS graduates: 52.5%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 34.2%

County figures

Non-white population: 22.5%

Poverty: 10.5%

HS graduates: 79.5%

Bachelor's+ degrees: 26.2%

Now, we see that Greenville does indeed have the lowest poverty rates in the city and the county. In the city, it also boasts the highest percentage of HS graduates in the city (not significantly higher than Charleston, only 0.2% higher). However, it has the lowest percentage of HS graduates in the county as well as the lowest percentage of those holding a bachelor's degree or higher in the city and in the county.

GvilleSC stated: "WEll, you guys say Greenville is less diverse... so it more than likely is due to a well educated population and the lowest poverty of SC's largest cities." I believe the cause is being confused with the effect. Greenville's "lack of diversity" isn't caused by "a well educated population" and the lowest poverty rate of SC's major metro areas; rather, at most (operating off certain assumptions--questionable in itself, since each city is unique) it can be stated that this is the RESULT of having a "less diverse" population. To say the opposite, which is what GvilleSC is claiming, would practically mean that having a low poverty rate and well-educated population are factors that do not attract minorities to a particular area; I don't think that's sensible at all. Sure there is a correlation, but it needs to be made clear which is the CAUSE and which is the EFFECT.

Also, waccamatt is the one who brought in the diversity factor, and for him it would primarily be an issue of gays living in the area. Any education/poverty correlations for this aspect of diversity?

Skyliner stated:

I think the government is absolutely contradictory to survey any statistic based on race, and then say we all are equal.

I'm not seeing how one follows the other. We are (ontologically) equal DESPITE our differences, but the differences do indeed matter, in one way or the other.

[goodbye]

I disagree, when skin color becomes the focus of difference, Krazeeboi. I think when you keep separating people in surveys simply by skin color, you contribute to the overall problem. Why not refoer to everyone as people, not white, black, or otherwise? I get very tired of these stats, because they are always tied to controversy when progression toward unity could rather be made. There is also too much "black pride" and "white pride" going on, when we could simply be celebrating "South Carolina pride."

[monsoon]

But it just doesn't make sense for the Government to still "seperate" citizens of the U.S. by race, IMO!

It's because politicians get elected these days by dividing people then pitting the groups against each other. Race is a favorite division as it is easy to divide people by race, and then get them inflamed about the deficiencies of the other race. A politician will no doubt run on a platform that will appeal to certain groups based on these divisions. And unfortunately, the people are all too willing to fall for these games and participate by voting for "their party", or something similar.

[The_sandlapper]

And if you're viewing all of Greenville's population in a certain way because of what i said, then you're the uneducated one.

You say this, and yet generalize an entire population of people.

[GvilleSC]

You say this, and yet generalize an entire population of people.

I DIDNT GENERALIZE an entire population. Never did in any of my posts. i stated facts and that's it! what is your problem??? gah, why don't you analyze this and twist it around and call me something else...

[Spartan]

So lets get back to the topic at hand and stop this lame bickering. How does this affect Greenville's competition with Columbia. I assure that this 'diversity' of which you speak is not the only issue.

What about transportation? I think Columbia has worse traffic, but a better set-up in general. The problem is that they do not appear to be thinking in terms of mass transit. Greenville on the other hand is doing some planning in that regard. Charleston as well. In fact, I think Charleston might have a leg up in that regard.