Best Skyline (of an Edge City)?

[teshadoh]

Actually my view of urbanity has little to do with skyscrapers, in fact - I could do without the majority of them. Urbanity is centralized street oriented density - it has to be a combination or it is dense sprawl. A decent density can be found in Cabbagetown, small lots & incorporating mixed uses makes this neighborhood the closest to being a functional urban neighborhood in Atlanta, besides Virginia Highlands, which benefits by it's proximity to Ponce de Leon.

So far the only neighborhood I've lived where I was able to walk to the grocery store. Also, VaHi's density is also high - though I still consider VaHi an inner-suburb, which would mean it's a partial grid but has a dependancy to collector arterials (Highland / Virginia). Of course VaHi can be argued that it is gridded & doesn't depend exclusively to collector arterials.

Yet I'm sticking to my guns, go figure

[Andrea]

I think my feelings about "urban" are similar to yours and Ryan's, teshadoh. However, I would have to admit there are large portions of downtown Atlanta which are exceedingly pedestrian-unfriendly and totally lacking in mixed use, yet I still think of them as somehow urban. Maybe it's more a subjective judgment than something we can put in terms of objective criteria.

I also inclined to think that it's not so much a grid per se that is important, but the fact the area is somehow divided up into "manageable" (whatever that means) chunks. Although many great cities (London, Paris, etc.) don't have street grids, they are thoroughly sliced and diced and there are lots of ways to get around.

Virginia Highland is such a great neighborhood. Unfortunately when I lived over there the only grocery store within walking distance was the Safeway. It wasn't too hot and it was still a pretty good hike from my street.

[atlla]

It's pathetic how some of you don't appreciate Buckhead. Ryan, how can you say that VaHi is urban. That is ridiculous if you don't consider Buckhead just as urban, if not more. As far as ped-friendly, DT is not extremely pf, only in a few spots. Yes you can walk up and down Peachtree, but it's just as easy to walk up and down Peachtree in Buckhead. When it comes to the gridding, please people, get a life.

[socaguy]

Buckhead certainly fits into Garreau's definition of an "Uptown" Edge city, built on top of a pre-existing settlement.

I guess Atlantic-Station, upon build-out, can be considered a Brownfield edge city defined by him.

Midtown seems kind of farfetched.

Out of all of them Buckhead has the largest skyline, Perimeter would have the most spread out, (and most amount of office space). Galleria area has a nice, dense little core of 20-something floor buildings but after that it is spread out.

Of course there are others in Atlanta now not even mentioned in his book, like Alpharetta and parts of Gwinnett. None of them has anything really tall though.

[teshadoh]

^ I believe he determined Midtown to be an edge city because 50 years ago it was predominately residential. I would like Andrea's view of how Midtown transformed around 30 years ago. From my knowledge it was in the 1980's when the residential homes underwent a urban renewal level of demolition.

The book could certainly use some updating though, as you mentioned to include the new 'edgeless' cities in Alpharetta & Gwinnett.

[ryanmckibben]

It's pathetic how some of you don't appreciate Buckhead. Ryan, how can you say that VaHi is urban. That is ridiculous if you don't consider Buckhead just as urban, if not more. As far as ped-friendly, DT is not extremely pf, only in a few spots. Yes you can walk up and down Peachtree, but it's just as easy to walk up and down Peachtree in Buckhead. When it comes to the gridding, please people, get a life.

It has nothing to do with not appreciating Buckhead. I have no problem with Buckhead per se, I was simply comparing the built environment of Buckhead with that of Midtown and Downtown. Buckhead has more in common with Perimeter Center (has anyone ever actually wondered how there can even be a center of a perimeter???) then it does with MT and DT. Just because a place is high density, does not automatically make it an urban place. Buckhead is indeed high density but built on a suburban model. This is also my argument for Va-Hi. It is indeed urban, low density urban, but urban all the same.

Some of the higher density suburban "nodes" most noteably Perimater and BH will become more urban over the coming years as high density suburban places often do. What we intowners need to watch out for is the suburbanization of our current low density urban nodes.

[teshadoh]

Some of the higher density suburban "nodes" most noteably Perimater and BH will become more urban over the coming years as high density suburban places often do. What we intowners need to watch out for is the suburbanization of our current low density urban nodes.

Actually you may be surprised about VaHi - it is one of the densest areas in Atlanta. Which likely indicates how low dense Atlanta is in general, but due to the compact lot sizes & mixed residential use - it is more popolous than areas you would consider to be denser populated.

Your last note is the most important one that I fear will continue to be the growing trend in intown Atlanta. Hopefully not so much as the type of development that occured in the 80's & 90's (everything between Piedmont, North, Bedford / 'Central Park' & Highland should just be demolished), but with more suburbanites moving into the city - more suburban habits will grow. Automobile usage in the city is still astoundingly high, MARTA is rarely used for most new residents, retail / commercial / residential developments are catering to the car even more. Though they are now forced to have greater street prescence, they make up for it with their parking decks. Consider the 'street friendly' Brookwood development where most of the primary retail entrances are still from the parking deck behind. Or more recently the new residential towers at 7th St will be a combined 15+ parking deck stories.

[ryanmckibben]

Actually, teshadoh, VA-Hi being more dense then some other ares, doesn't suprise me at all. It's kind of like the astounding fact that LA is actually more dense then NY. As for the parking decks in all of the new development, we will have to endure a couple of more years of this kind of development until things such as the P'Tree streetcar, the Ponce streetcar and eventually the Beltline are built. At that point I think you will see a fundamental shift in the way we Atlantans get around.

[teshadoh]

Actually Ryan, I just wanted to reply with 'actually'. I dig your optimism regarding - build it, & they will use it - just hope that is true. All I know is I'm usually the only whitey on the bus home from work. In fact - a neighbor who has lived in the neighborhood a few years longer than me - ACTUALLY didn't know that there was a MARTA station a little over a mile from our homes. He also didn't realize the bus route 21 'MEMORIAL DR' actually does go along Memorial Dr to downtown, which would take him straight to his office. But he won't use MARTA anyways...

Ryan - that is where my scepticism is based on, in the inner suburban neighborhoods of Grant Park, Virginia Highlands, Inman Park - many of the residents still have a suburban mentality. That is, you drive everywhere - walking & transit isn't even a consideration.

[Hybrid0NE]

^^^

[Topped Out]

I don't think its fair to compare Buckhead's skyline to Vinings and Sandy Springs. Of the other two, Sandy Springs is my favorite. I love watching the King & the Queen appear when traveling 285-Eastbound from Roswell Road.

[socaguy]

Those are some very cool towers, but the Sandy Springs skyline is too sprawled out for me. Personally, i like the dense cluster of highrises around the Galleria better. Buckhead beats em all though.