Hartford Restaurant/Retail

[Hartfordfan]

good point

[sp1dey]

Took a nice walk at lunch today, gotta love this weather in January. Part of my walk took me to Hartford 21 to check on the progress... any word on these new retail spaces yet? they are pretty far along with the construction, almost to the point that they could start filling these spaces along trumbull. On a side note, after rounding the corner and seeing the HCC, man we need a new arena. The HCC looks worse against the shiny facade of Hartford 21.

[HartfordTycoon]

Took a nice walk at lunch today, gotta love this weather in January. Part of my walk took me to Hartford 21 to check on the progress... any word on these new retail spaces yet? they are pretty far along with the construction, almost to the point that they could start filling these spaces along trumbull. On a side note, after rounding the corner and seeing the HCC, man we need a new arena. The HCC looks worse against the shiny facade of Hartford 21.

I didn't really want to bring that up but the contrast is pretty stark. I really, really think it's time for a new Arena. The Old Civic Center simply doesn't fit into the New Downtown Hartford.

[jcrc]

The civic center makeover has lined Trumbull street with retail spaces.

I would think any of those spaces would be better for the Huskies Store than the current Pratt Street location.

Some kind of a kitchen store sore might make sense with hundreds of apartments within walking distance.

Perhaps a high end wine store.

A bookstore/internet cafe.

A drug store.

A foot locker.

A blockbuster.

A small Petco.

There are already camera shops, cigars stores, fed ex, fast food, kinkos, starbucks, etc, downtown. But Trumbull Street may attract soeme of those because of the heavy pedestrian traffic that the Civic Center and new housing will produce.

If you ask me, it would be very hard to fill those spaces. Unless the rent is low, which I doubt it will be. The painful fact is there is not enough shoppers and office workers do very little shopping. There is every little people on weekend (last Saturday Starbucks did 4 customers). Adding H21 and Trumbull on the Park, or adding 500 people, will not alter this fact. If you look at the currently empty retail spaces, they are asking something like 30 - 40 per square foot on Asylum, Pratt, and Main Street. I just don't see the foot traffic to justify these prices. I know some one who pays 60 per square foot on one of Chicago's prime location, and there is no way Hartford has one half to two third of Chicago's traffic head count. To attract small boutiques, gallaries, and other retailers 15 to 20 per square foot is much more realistic. If Hartford lines one or two blocks with such stores, plus a mini Rockerfeller Center (no office just retail and residential building) where the Civic Center is at, and write into the lease that retailers must open on Saturday, then in five years we might have a viable downtown shopping district.

[sp1dey]

If you ask me, it would be very hard to fill those spaces. Unless the rent is low, which I doubt it will be. The painful fact is there is not enough shoppers and office workers do very little shopping. There is every little people on weekend (last Saturday Starbucks did 4 customers). Adding H21 and Trumbull on the Park, or adding 500 people, will not alter this fact. If you look at the currently empty retail spaces, they are asking something like 30 - 40 per square foot on Asylum, Pratt, and Main Street. I just don't see the foot traffic to justify these prices. I know some one who pays 60 per square foot on one of Chicago's prime location, and there is no way Hartford has one half to two third of Chicago's traffic head count. To attract small boutiques, gallaries, and other retailers 15 to 20 per square foot is much more realistic. If Hartford lines one or two blocks with such stores, plus a mini Rockerfeller Center (no office just retail and residential building) where the Civic Center is at, and write into the lease that retailers must open on Saturday, then in five years we might have a viable downtown shopping district.

I totally agree with you on the rent, but I'll hold out judgement until we see what goes into them. Northland will not want them to linger as empty space for long. I disagree with you on the office workers not shopping though. Having just moved back to CT after living in Boston for the last six years I can assure you Bostonians love nothing more then shopping during lunch and after work. I just think right now there are no options for them in Hartford. Put something compelling and they will shop. I'm telling you, throw a Barnes and Noble and a music store like Newbury Comics at Hartford 21 and it would be packed M-F. Weekends will be tough for a while until all these resedential units fill up. But you are correct, even with all these new housing options, it won't be enough. Thats were other draws come in, the science museum, convention center, maybe a new arena, and front street would help. Which brings me to my last point, front street could be spectacular if it offered something not found at the malls. A retail outlet village with some mixed use housing and small office space above would be perfect. People would come to shop at something like that on the weekends, no doubt in my mind. Closest outlets are Clinton, Westbrook, and Lee, MA.

Let me just circle back to the Arena for one second. I understand people's reservation about spending on a large project like that, but the HCC very dated. The 70's were not a hay day for arenas... concrete monstrosities. A new arena, with or without NHL or NBA if properly managed could bring in lots of business. MGS has done a terrible job managing both the HCC and Renschler field. I'm not trying to dog the Wolfpack for all you fans in the slightest, I just feel that both facilities are very much underused. Costs aside, a new Arena could greatly shape the future of downtown (I can dream anyway).

[LItoCT]

I totally agree with you on the rent, but I'll hold out judgement until we see what goes into them. Northland will not want them to linger as empty space for long. I disagree with you on the office workers not shopping though. Having just moved back to CT after living in Boston for the last six years I can assure you Bostonians love nothing more then shopping during lunch and after work. I just think right now there are no options for them in Hartford. Put something compelling and they will shop. I'm telling you, throw a Barnes and Noble and a music store like Newbury Comics at Hartford 21 and it would be packed M-F. Weekends will be tough for a while until all these resedential units fill up. But you are correct, even with all these new housing options, it won't be enough. Thats were other draws come in, the science museum, convention center, maybe a new arena, and front street would help. Which brings me to my last point, front street could be spectacular if it offered something not found at the malls. A retail outlet village with some mixed use housing and small office space above would be perfect. People would come to shop at something like that on the weekends, no doubt in my mind. Closest outlets are Clinton, Westbrook, and Lee, MA.

Retail stores cannot survive on profits made on workers lunch-hours alone. Otherwise there would be no shortage of retail in downtown right now. Any store that banks on being able to survive on those people who work in the offices 9-5 is doomed to failure. Anything that opens downtown has to be able to market itself to people in the neighborhoods and surrounding towns. A Barnes and Noble won't pull me downtown and I'm 3/4 of a mile away, how will it pull in north, south and west enders, let alone people from out of town. Whatever is put downtown has to be amazing enough to justify the trip downtown, paying for parking, or taking the bus trip. On the complete other hand however, downtown you now only have really two options for food, fast food or semi-expensive (for my income) resturants like those steakhouses or trumbull kitchen. I know chains are tacky, but an applebees or an Olive Garden (ummm...fake Italian food) would draw the middle class. Not everything has to be unique stores and resturants, most people like sprawl, all thier favorite stores and resturants are in sprawl, so bring some of that sprawl retail to downtown, where it can do some use.....I just made two opposite points but...who cares.

[newlondonboy]

Some of these posts are right on about the retail. A bookstore, newbury comics, internet cafe, etc. But, the good retailiers are not ready yet. It will help a lot when Trumbull on the Park fills up and H21 opens (it is disappointing that sage allen is stalled). The Y breaking ground (2007) will also help a lot. Northland could fill up the retail today - but not with quality vibrant uses. That is why they are being patient. It is not a question of rent - because for a great use (e.g. Borders, a market) Northland would "buy" the lease; in essence subsidize the user with a below market rate lease like they did with AgaveGrill. But the city does not need another Quiznos or brokerage firm. Unfortunately it may take a year to get the quality retailers (hopefully not). And how bad does the civic center look against H21?

[sp1dey]

I think we can all agree that Hartford needs residents, retail, food, and attractions... in what order and what scale, who knows. All of our post, mine included are basically things we see, voids that need to be filled. Getting people living here is logically the first step. That being said, some retail in the mix would be nice. It's no doubt a gamble for these unknown retailers, but not nearly as much as Northland and other developers speculating on Hartford's boom. It all about taking a chance and in order to truly turn around I think we need a mix of it all. I suggest something like Barnes and Nobles rather then a mom and pop shop because they likely could stand to lose a little on speculation while the market grows. A newbury comics fills a void that the state doesn't have... they really are unigue enough stores that many would frequent. But anywho, just my theory. Front street is the prize though, put a retail outlet village there and between the conventioneers and general shoppers it would no doubt succeed. Hopefully there would then be a spillover effect into the rest of downtown. Lets hope they don't drop the ball on Front Street.

And the HCC looks pretty bad against Hartford 21... doesn't take anything away from it, just shows it age and lack of architectural value.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I think was is really needed is the demolition of the mindset that the Civic Center area and the new Front Street area are destinations/islands unto themselves (we can add the Union Station area to the discussion later while we're at it). The big psychological and physical barrier in my view is MAIN STREET. It MUST be used effectively to connect these two vital areas, and right now people view it for the most part as ugly and scary. Main Street is usually the core of any town or city, and Hartford has to start recognzing this and step up. Progress is being made on the north side, with the American Airlines building, G Fox, Sage Allen, etc., but this momentum HAS to carried further down - the big ugly empty "Renaissance" lot, the big ugly empty MDC cement block, the empty storefronts south of that..... This will really tie the whole downtown together and create a string of retail from the Convention Center / Riverwalk all the way to the train stations (and hopefully hook up with the successful West End / Farmington Ave. area (then on to Blue Back!!!) - just my two cents.

[LItoCT]

This might step on a few people's toes but I think we might need a large supermarket with a lot of surface parking in one of those empty lots right on the edge of downtown. When we do have a good amount of residents downtown they will need and demand one but you will never have enough downtown residents to justify a stop and shop on its own, and a downtown supermarket would never attract people from the neighborhoods, who wants to park downtown or deal with the bus into downtown to buy groceries. But by placing a supermarket on the edge of downtown, say in one of those lots just north of 84 you allow access to people living downtown (especially if the supermarket is a star shuttle stop) and you also make the supermarket a destination for people living in the north end in this example. And because the space is already an open lot, you're not destroying anything by putting in a good amount of free surface parking, which will draw people in...I know I might (coming from Trinity) make a trip to a full supermarket downtown instead of going to wal-mart or zig-zagging to the Parkville stop and shop if I knew I could park there.

[jcrc]

OK, let's go one step further than it would be nice to see this or that type of shop in Hartford, if you were to invest your own money in a retail store in Hartford, where would you put it, what kind of shop are you planning, and how do you plan to get people into your shop and spend money?

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I think the idea of the proposed cluster of big-boxes (with a supermarket included I assume) a little further north in the Meadows area is good - save the close-to-downtown lots for residential/offices/towers/arenas/etc.

[uconn99]

I would put a House of Blues right down near the river, and connecting to Front street district.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I would put a House of Blues right down near the river, and connecting to Front street district.

Either that or a Jazz club, a la the old 880 Club on Maple St.

[HartfordTycoon]

I have so many ideas, but I can't reveal them yet. Call me overly causious or what have you, but I have solid plans in the works. I can't post things on the internet yet, it would be like putting the cart before the horse. I actually am a partner in a cell phone store opening in Bloomfield Center later this month, hopefully the first of many. I know it's not Hartford, but hey it's close and you know I feel about the metro area, it's all the same place.

[GregV]

I believe an important question has just been asked..."if it were your money, what would you do??"

A tough one. Let's see, what actually makes money in Hartford? Bars, clubs and restaurants, but not much more. It pains me to say it, but I would not put my money into retail downtown unless it were a really unique space, probably entertainment of some sort.

We all think Hartford is going through a residential renaissance, but we haven't seen anything yet. All we have now are a few bold, trailblazing developers taking a huge gamble (which I believe will pay off). Once they bring in a base of 3-5,000 new residents, national developers will be comfortable enough to invest in tens of thousands of new units through entire townhouse heighborhoods, park-facing, highrises, etc.

Only then will we have the demand for big time retail, but that date is 5-10 years away. By then Northland's retail bet will be paying itself off, kicking out cheap temporary tenants in favor of big name clothiers and housewhere shops. I can't wait (but I'll have to).

[MadVlad]

Hartford needs residential the most. I think, in my opinion, that is crucial to everything else. If a ton of people were milling around all the time, everything else would just fall into place. If I had the money, I'd gobble up the lot on the corner of Asylum/Ford St's and build a nice 20-30 story all-residential tower. But it also depends how much money we are talking, if I had Gates money, I'd have a Space Needle. I also would someday like to open a Renaissance Store, midieval clothing, armor, swords, things like that. It'd be different, and I could see doing a lot of mail-order/Ebay type stuff to keep afloat too....

[ctman987]

On a differant note a store that specializes in decorating and designing offices has relocated from Glastonbury to State House Square in downtown Hartford. The store opened last week (Jan 9 I think). It may be small news but it is a step in the right direction as this store which is headquarterd in Boston decided to move its Glastonbury store to downtown.

Also anyone know what the new restaurant that is in the works called Feng (I think) on Asylum Street is going to be like. Its on Asylum between Main and Trumbull, on the left in a brick building that used to have a Chinese restaurant just before Asylum & Trumbull.

[MadVlad]

That old Chinese restaurant was kind-of a dump, but they were really doting, so it made up for it. I think Feng is supposed to be a little more upscale than that...

[newlondonboy]

I have stopped into that Feng's a couple of times. The owner is doing a lot of the work himself - and the buildout is spectacular. Very high end.

[MadVlad]

Stew Leonard's, which is an innovative Specialty/Grocery type Store thing is putting a store in the former Caldor Plaza in Newington. Having a Stew Leonard's in the area is a good thing, in my opinion, really unique shopping experience, they are based out of Norwalk and also have a store in Danbury...

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[fivedayrental]

Stew Leonard's, which is an innovative Specialty/Grocery type Store thing is putting a store in the former Caldor Plaza in Newington. Having a Stew Leonard's in the area is a good thing, in my opinion, really unique shopping experience, they are based out of Norwalk and also have a store in Danbury...

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There's also a Stew's in Yonkers, NY (just north of manhatten..it has it's own exit off of I-87/NY State Throughway.

[MadVlad]

I know, but I didn't see the Yonkers one being relevant to this conversation. You are right though...

[HartfordTycoon]

Couldn't we shift this into the the Greater Hartford forum? Newington is certainly a greater Hartford town as it does border the city on the south.

[MadVlad]

It borders Hartford, I didn't see the problem, any other city in the country and it would be well within the city limits, but whatever...