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willrusso

Skyscrapers, Landfills, and Costco...

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WRAL.com has reported that Glen Tree, the 42 story hotel/condo project at Crabtree has been approved by city council. They plan to start demolition of the old hotel within 30 to 60 days. Also, the city council approved plans to build a Costco on Wake Forest Rd. inside the beltline. The third issue on the table at this meeting was the building of a landfill near Holly Springs. The city council voted to approve this project also. It appears that Raleigh is growing by leaps and bounds here lately. :yahoo:

The full story can be read here:

http://www.wral.com/news/5225265/detail.html

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Though it is just another form of evil big box retail, I rather like Costco for some stuff. The closest one right now is in Durham. Where on Wake Forest Rd would this Costco go? I hope it isn't too far inside the beltline--I doubt it would be. I'm imagining the wooded lot just north of the Six Forks Rd intersection. Does that sound right?

You all where I stand on the Glen Tree issue (yay), and the landfill is a necessary evil--their cost rationale is sound, but I do not like to see this proposal ruffle the feathers of so many people in Holly Springs.

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Where on Wake Forest Rd would this Costco go? I hope it isn't too far inside the beltline--I doubt it would be. I'm imagining the wooded lot just north of the Six Forks Rd intersection. Does that sound right?

The cleared corner of WF and Six Forks where the old Pepsi plant used to be.

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The cleared corner of WF and Six Forks where the old Pepsi plant used to be.

That's the spot....by the way that wooded lot Norff Carolina mentioned has one of oldest plantation houses in Wake County located on it originally owned by Nathanial "Crabtree" Jones c. 1795. It resembles Haywood Hall downtown. It is all that is left of a once thriving town-like area...four major "highways" converged here...Six Forks Road, Wake Forest Road, Louisburg Road and Falls of the Neuse all met within a mile of Crabtree Creek....Isaac Hunters Tavern was also in the woods mentioned above...in the fields between the Jones Plantation House and Crabtree Creek was the largest civil war training ground in Wake County "Camp Crabtree"....various Mills stood at the Crabtree Creek Wake Forest Road Bridge, inlcuding one of largest munitions factories in NC during the civil war...some of the bricks are still sitting in the creek....the Jones Cemetery is still in someones side yard behind the new Viatamin Shoppe....slaves from this plantation formed most of what became the Millbrook community.

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That's the spot....by the way that wooded lot Norff Carolina mentioned has one of oldest plantation houses in Wake County located on it originally owned by Nathanial "Crabtree" Jones c. 1795. It resembles Haywood Hall downtown. It is all that is left of a once thriving town-like area...four major "highways" converged here...Six Forks Road, Wake Forest Road, Louisburg Road and Falls of the Neuse all met within a mile of Crabtree Creek....Isaac Hunters Tavern was also in the woods mentioned above...in the fields between the Jones Plantation House and Crabtree Creek was the largest civil war training ground in Wake County "Camp Crabtree"....various Mills stood at the Crabtree Creek Wake Forest Road Bridge, inlcuding one of largest munitions factories in NC during the civil war...some of the bricks are still sitting in the creek....the Jones Cemetery is still in someones side yard behind the new Viatamin Shoppe....slaves from this plantation formed most of what became the Millbrook community.

Wow, that is really cool. Is there any historical preservation at that site? It depressed me to see hisotrical markers that read: 1 mile east of here once stood....

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by the way that wooded lot Norff Carolina mentioned has one of oldest plantation houses in Wake County located on it originally owned by Nathanial "Crabtree" Jones c. 1795.

Wow, I always wondered what was up that gravel road in the woods. I had no idea there was a home that old there. Jones, you seem to be a real history buff. I am impressed!

Is the house on the city historic properties list?

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That is pretty cool. Is the house occupied? If not, has it been closed/stabilized, or is it in poor shape? I'm interested in learning more about historic stuff like that...

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On the landfill topic, I don't feel too sorry for those persons living in Holly Springs. When they decided to call HS home, they knew that they were moving to a town with a landfill and should have known that there were plans for an additional one. I mean, I guess it kind of stinks (no pun intended) for them but it was no big secret. The trash has to go somewhere and any other municipality would have thrown up a defense to it. HS probably had the least feathers to rustle than going to an area without one.

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The house is occupied and in decent shape but nothing like the restorations in Oakwood. It is listed on the National Historic Register but I am not sure about any city designation. A portion of Isaac Hunter's Tavern was standing until the 1970's is no longer around. If you go up the regular city street (don't know the name) accross Wake Forest Rd. from the Melting Pot, and walk left about 20 feet into the woods you can see the old house. Charlie Gaddy actually is using a tax loophole to keep it affordable to hold the land for now (some sort of agricultural loophole)

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Though it is just another form of evil big box retail, I rather like Costco for some stuff. The closest one right now is in Durham. Where on Wake Forest Rd would this Costco go? I hope it isn't too far inside the beltline--I doubt it would be. I'm imagining the wooded lot just north of the Six Forks Rd intersection. Does that sound right?

You all where I stand on the Glen Tree issue (yay), and the landfill is a necessary evil--their cost rationale is sound, but I do not like to see this proposal ruffle the feathers of so many people in Holly Springs.

You will like Costco. We have 3 in Charlotte, and I like them better than Sams.

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The house is occupied and in decent shape but nothing like the restorations in Oakwood. It is listed on the National Historic Register but I am not sure about any city designation. A portion of Isaac Hunter's Tavern was standing until the 1970's is no longer around. If you go up the regular city street (don't know the name) accross Wake Forest Rd. from the Melting Pot, and walk left about 20 feet into the woods you can see the old house. Charlie Gaddy actually is using a tax loophole to keep it affordable to hold the land for now (some sort of agricultural loophole)

Jones, thank you very much for posting the info about that wooded lot. Up on the hill overlooking the Crabtree Creek floodplain, yet obscured by all the nice oaks and other hardwoods, I always wondered what could have been up there. I might have to do some snooping around and give it a look!

PS-you seem pretty knowledgeable about historic Raleigh-do you know where the remains of the old roundhouse (railroad roundhouse) in Raleigh are? They're supposedly just northeast of downtown.

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Jones, thank you very much for posting the info about that wooded lot. Up on the hill overlooking the Crabtree Creek floodplain, yet obscured by all the nice oaks and other hardwoods, I always wondered what could have been up there. I might have to do some snooping around and give it a look!

PS-you seem pretty knowledgeable about historic Raleigh-do you know where the remains of the old roundhouse (railroad roundhouse) in Raleigh are? They're supposedly just northeast of downtown.

I found some remains of one roundhouse but there is a discrepancy between where it is and where C.N. Dries 1872 map of Raleigh says it should be....Johnson Street being the marker, the map shows it on one side of the street and what I found was on the other side (or what is left of Johnson). It can be found near that short gravel portion of Johnson St. east of Capital Blvd.

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If you check out an aerial on Google Maps, you can see a turntable there, owned by CSX, which may or may not still be operational. Perhaps they use it once in a blue moon when they need to turn something around but don't want the operational hassle of using the Wye (which is shared with Norfolk Southern.)

Anyway, at the center of every roundhouse there is a turntable, so that may very well be the spot.

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If you check out an aerial on Google Maps, you can see a turntable there, owned by CSX, that may or may not still be operational. Perhaps they use it once in a blue moon when they need to turn something around but don't want the operational hassle of using the Wye (which is shared with Norfolk Southern.)

Anyway, at the center of every roundhouse there is a turntable, so that may very well be the spot.

Cool, I need to use google satelite more often....Dries map shows the roundhouse south of Johnson.

Dries Map.

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The cleared corner of WF and Six Forks where the old Pepsi plant used to be.

Isn't there supposed to be a TTA station within walking distance of this site? Doesn't Raleigh have zoning in place to protect transit station areas for higher density development?

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Isn't there supposed to be a TTA station within walking distance of this site? Doesn't Raleigh have zoning in place to protect transit station areas for higher density development?

The only one I recall is the Highwoods stop and it is not in walking distance...at least not for me :)

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Speaking of TTA... I wonder if there would be the potential for a stop between Highwoods and Downtown. There is a huge swath of land along Atlantic Ave in the vicinity of Highwoods--I assume it would be TOD if this part of the TTA line were approved and built. Is there any hope for transit friendly development or redevelopment south of there towards downtown? I believe there is--especially along Capital Blvd.

Yeah I know that is off the subject, and that TTA's rail plans are uncertain at best. Just suspend disbelief for a moment.

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When the TTA vehicle was on display at the Dillon Warehouse I spent a few minutes speaking with one of the TTA folks working on the project. He told me that there are several places where the engineering plans call for TTA to build the tracks with enough space between them to accomodate a platform at some time in the future. I didn't take notes (stupid me) but as I recall, he mentioned three locations:

"Downtown" Morrisville

Durham, somewhere between Alston Avenue and North RTP

Raleigh, somewhere a little north of Pilot Mill.

Presumably these would be implemented in a later phase of the regional rail line. There may have been others but the engineer I was speaking with did not remember off the top of his head.

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Speaking of TTA... I wonder if there would be the potential for a stop between Highwoods and Downtown. There is a huge swath of land along Atlantic Ave in the vicinity of Highwoods--I assume it would be TOD if this part of the TTA line were approved and built. Is there any hope for transit friendly development or redevelopment south of there towards downtown? I believe there is--especially along Capital Blvd.

Yeah I know that is off the subject, and that TTA's rail plans are uncertain at best. Just suspend disbelief for a moment.

The Pedin Steel plant is a prime location and developers have looked at it. that development could spread all the way back to the old famers market and through the low-lying area where Dunkin Donuts, Bobby Murry Chec and the bowling ally is. Oh yea, the Foxy Lady, :yahoo:

I see that as an area of redevelopment, maybe even before Capital Blvd at the old Harris WHolesale whouse is....

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Isn't there supposed to be a TTA station within walking distance of this site? Doesn't Raleigh have zoning in place to protect transit station areas for higher density development?

I think it is a shame to put a Costco there. Big Boxes have doing all they can to get inside the Beltline and now they have done it. And I can't believe Meeker thinks this is OK. Yes, the highwoods stop is just over a block or 2. The next thing is the old Alcatel plant and it will be a Lowe's and then Home Depot will come in take up the old Farmers market adn before you know, all that will be big box instead of the prime inside the beltline tight development. This is where the CC, Meeker and others speak out of both sides of their mouth.

:w00t:

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For now it's probably good to have some boxes in the beltline. If for no other reason than to get people back inside the beltline.

It can work out. The Harris Teeter in central Carrboro helps the town a lot. Between it and Weaver Street, the resturaunts, VisArt, the smaller shops, and Revco (or whatever it is), you can get all your shopping done in one area. Thus everybody in Carrboro goes downtown to shop, at least sometimes. The place does pretty well, and has better nightlife than a lot of full-blown cities in NC.

Some large, traditionally box stores sprinkled inside the beltline could help the community as a whole.

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