East Beltline Developments

[AlexPKeaton]

I just don't want to be an elitist urbanist and dismiss those people who do enjoy suburb living as "stupid".

I do.

[suydam]

Can anyone answer me why Grand Rapids township and Grand Rapids don't merge? Both would have alot to gain by this i think the township would have slightly more to gain by the city services that would be offered to the residents. But both goverments work closely on development issues and such so why not merge?

City services come at a price. If you live in a township you've made the choice that the services provided by the city aren't worth the price.

Heck, GR's trash pickup system is a great example. Sure they pick it up for you...but it's expensive, you have to buy bags-n-tags that cost a boat load of money and they won't even take yard-waste for recycling without paying a premium for the yard-waste-paper bags.

Same problem where I live (EGR, city). Sure they pick up our yard-waste and leaves...but we pay for it.

Township residents have made the choice that those services aren't worth paying for.

I may disagree, but that doesn't make their opinion less valid.

[destijl]

City services come at a price. If you live in a township you've made the choice that the services provided by the city aren't worth the price.

Heck, GR's trash pickup system is a great example. Sure they pick it up for you...but it's expensive, you have to buy bags-n-tags that cost a boat load of money and they won't even take yard-waste for recycling without paying a premium for the yard-waste-paper bags.

Same problem where I live (EGR, city). Sure they pick up our yard-waste and leaves...but we pay for it.

Township residents have made the choice that those services aren't worth paying for.

I may disagree, but that doesn't make their opinion less valid.

But GR's trash pickup is a great deal for small households. I lived alone and recycled everything possible, and only generated 1 bag of trash every 3 to 4 weeks. That was much cheaper than having a monthly bill..

[Grandrapidsne]

Yes people should be able to live where they please. I don't think it should be done just to make Grand Rapids bigger im looking at it from a money saving idea in light of the situation in Michigan and how revenue cutting is taking place across communities the idea of the two merging made sense.

[NorthCoast]

Yes people should be able to live where they please. I don't think it should be done just to make Grand Rapids bigger im looking at it from a money saving idea in light of the situation in Michigan and how revenue cutting is taking place across communities the idea of the two merging made sense.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but I bet the townships would prefer to be under county rule as opposed to the city's. It's that whole conservative "rural" way of thinking. I think this is the way things may end up playing out if the state does end up deciding to consolidate governments. The only chance GR has of adding any type of population and or tax dollars would be from the cities which surround it such as Walker, Wyoming, Kentwood, etc. and even then I wouldn't expect total annexation.

[GRDadof3]

Due diligence alert! Due diligence alert!

I always seem to be at the right place at the right time to catch these environmental core samples being done. In addition to these photos, the fact that they have this project on bidclerk now probably means we actually will see something happening here this Fall (which would mean an 09 opening).

http://www.bidclerk.com/project.427823.html

Also, the house on the cliff is gone and the entire site regraded, but I just read that they can't get approval to move forward because they have a very inadequate storm water management system on site. Yeesh.

[joeDowntown]

There is also a big mound of dirt on the "Mobile Homes at Knapp's Corner" property. I found that a little odd.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

There is also a big mound of dirt on the "Mobile Homes at Knapp's Corner" property. I found that a little odd.

Joe

I saw that too Joe. I don't think it's anything related to construction starting.

Exxel Engineering was out on the Village site yesterday. Things are heating up!

[GRDadof3]

There is also a big mound of dirt on the "Mobile Homes at Knapp's Corner" property. I found that a little odd.

Joe

Evergreen has a new proposed plan going before the planning commission this week for that corner "village". Looks a lot like a strip mall. And it's scaled down quite a bit.

[GRDadof3]

For those keeping track of the "Lifestyle Center Wars", they are continuing to do environmental testing on the Village of Orchard Hills site (seen in my post a few back), moving from one area of the large site to another.

And Evergreen Properties was denied by the Planning Commission on their latest plans for the corner 1 mile South to do their "lifestyle center". Here are the latest site plans:

The layout reminds me of that development (strip mall) just off I-196 near Rivertown Crossings on the South side of Rivertown Pkwy, that contains a Party City and a bunch of other stores.

The debate at the Planning Commission boiled down to what constitutes a "lifestyle center". Evergreen contends if it contains many of the features of a lifestyle center (sidewalks, planters, benches, a "community greenspace") then it should qualify. The commission still believes it should contain a "main street" with stores flanking both sides, so they denied it. On to the Zoning Board of Appeals. In the agenda, they made a comparison to another development done by the architects in Northville, MI:

http://www.mlive.com/business/grpress/inde....xml&coll=6

[tamias6]

^^^

*Cough* *Cough* Stripmall! *Cough*

I stick with what's offered on Alpine Ave. or the Rivertown crossings area. There's now nothing different from those areas to really compel me to go out of my way to shop there.

[GRDadof3]

^^^

*Cough* *Cough* Stripmall! *Cough*

I stick with what's offered on Alpine Ave. or the Rivertown crossings area. There's now nothing different from those areas to really compel me to go out of my way to shop there.

Yes, but don't you see the little brick sidewalk and the clock with green shrubs around it. I mean, how much more "small town new urbanism walkabilly warm fuzzy lifestyle village" can you get than that??!!!

[twoshort]

Yes, but don't you see the little brick sidewalk and the clock with green shrubs around it. I mean, how much more "small town new urbanism walkabilly warm fuzzy lifestyle village" can you get than that??!!!

The one in Northville is just a parking lot surrounded by strip malls. The planters and trees just make the parking situation more confusing in my opinion.

[GRDadof3]

The one in Northville is just a parking lot surrounded by strip malls. The planters and trees just make the parking situation more confusing in my opinion.

No kidding. Here's an interesting example of a real "Lifestyle Village", which is really downtown Palo Alto, California. I think this is what developers are trying to recreate with these concepts (even with similar tenants). Maybe they can show these pictures to Evergreen's architect.

[wingbert]

No kidding. Here's an interesting example of a real "Lifestyle Village", which is really downtown Palo Alto, California. I think this is what developers are trying to recreate with these concepts (even with similar tenants). Maybe they can show these pictures to Evergreen's architect.

Downtown Palo Alto looks a lot like downtown Holland. Perhaps Evergreen's architect just needs to take a short drive out 196.

[Sailor]

Downtown Palo Alto looks a lot like downtown Holland. Perhaps Evergreen's architect just needs to take a short drive out 196.

Looks remarkably like downtown Naperville, Illinois...a reasonable 3-hour drive from here, if anyone's looking for a road trip.

[GRDadof3]

Lifestyle Village developer returns to the drawing board

Looks like Steve Benner, the developer at East Betline and KNAPP, is going to go back to the drawing board and not go before the ZBA anytime soon. He also says he will try to work "with" the city, and not against the city.

[Eridony]

Lifestyle Village developer returns to the drawing board

Looks like Steve Benner, the developer at East Betline and KNAPP, is going to go back to the drawing board and not go before the ZBA anytime soon. He also says he will try to work "with" the city, and not against the city.

It'll be interesting to see what finally is developed at this site, and how many years it will take. The article says it's already been 2 1/2 years. I wonder if anything will happen there in the next 2 1/2.

[tamias6]

It'll be interesting to see what finally is developed at this site, and how many years it will take. The article says it's already been 2 1/2 years. I wonder if anything will happen there in the next 2 1/2.

Hmmm. The Developer's better work fast. With Orchard Hills and Orchard Park both looming ever closer to getting the go ahead to start building, the clock's ticking.

[GRDadof3]

Hmmm. The Developer's better work fast. With Orchard Hills and Orchard Park both looming ever closer to getting the go ahead to start building, the clock's ticking.

Or, they could go with what was layed out in the Master Plan for that corner, which would be medium to high-density residential, with some retail.

[FilmMaker]

Or, they could go with what was layed out in the Master Plan for that corner, which would be medium to high-density residential, with some retail.

Wouldn't THAT be a novel idea! I can't tell you how tired I get of developers expecting communities to ignore their Master Plans and grovel in humiliating homage at the feet of whatever white-wash the developer is "spinning" in the media about how "they know better" than anyone else what is best for a community (hey Spartan Stores... you reading this?)

While not all Master Plans are perfect in any way - they ARE a deliberate, binding and legal representation of the collective desires of a community. Where in developer school do they teach folks that Master Plans are "evil" and purely meant to be breached and never followed? I don't care how much people claim the market will dictate behavior and land use - the truth is I've had hundreds of people tell me flat out that they would rather alter their behavior to accommodate wise land use through their Master Plan. When was the last time you saw hundreds of protesters carrying "we want a strip mall" signs? Alas, instead these people have created Master Plans that articulate their collective desires - and their expectation is that developers will see the Master Plan as a clear indication of how that community has extensively appraised its own short and long term behavior, needs and goals. Golly, sounds like a smart developer would see the Master Plan as having done some of his work for him... no?

Oh yea... I forgot, we're all fighting to attract the same small list of homogenized chain stores and eateries... (rolling my eyes).

Edited September 21, 2007 by FilmMaker

[GRDadof3]

Wouldn't THAT be a novel idea! I can't tell you how tired I get of developers expecting communities to ignore their Master Plans and grovel in humiliating homage at the feet of whatever white-wash the developer is "spinning" in the media about how "they know better" than anyone else what is best for a community (hey Spartan Stores... you reading this?)

While not all Master Plans are perfect in any way - they ARE a deliberate, binding and legal representation of the collective desires of a community. Where in developer school do they teach folks that Master Plans are "evil" and purely meant to be breached and never followed? I don't care how much people claim the market will dictate behavior and land use - the truth is I've had hundreds of people tell me flat out that they would rather alter their behavior to accommodate wise land use through their Master Plan. When was the last time you saw hundreds of protesters carrying "we want a strip mall" signs? Alas, instead these people have created Master Plans that articulate their collective desires - and their expectation is that developers will see the Master Plan as a clear indication of how that community has extensively appraised its own short and long term behavior, needs and goals. Golly, sounds like a smart developer would see the Master Plan as having done some of his work for him... no?

Oh yea... I forgot, we're all fighting to attract the same small list of homogenized chain stores and eateries... (rolling my eyes).

I see people voting with their pocketbooks when it comes to strip malls, in the form of a huge number of vacancies and huge turnover. Especially in the Northeast/Plainfield/Northland Drive area. There's one in front of Celebration Village (across the street from the parcel in question) that has a new AT&T store, and nothing else. An AT&T store? What would I even go there to buy or do? Pay my bill?

Or how about the one where Grand Oldsmobile used to be. Are they ever going to finish it?

I can see where a nice upscale "urban format" apartment complex might do well at the Knapp/Beltline corner (as the master plan lays out). Forest Hills schools (for single parents or those who aren't looking to buy right away in the area), walk to Celebration Village and/or Meijer, hop the bus to downtown, bike paths up and down the Beltline, potential new lifestyle village less than a mile North of there, an awesome park behind Grand Rapids Twp hall that you could walk or bike to. Plus, we looked at apartments on the Northeast side when we first moved here 10 years ago and had a hard time finding anything decent. Everything was on the Southeast or Northwest sides. More residents there = more people to shop in the area. East Beltline proposed to be widened to 6 lanes from I-96 to Knapp. Hmmmm, it's like it was meant for that kind of use.

[DwntwnGeo]

There's one in front of Celebration Village (across the street from the parcel in question) that has a new AT&T store, and nothing else. An AT&T store? What would I even go there to buy or do? Pay my bill?

I hear that AT&T store will market to customers that would like to try/touch/feel product before they commit to buying/using it. I think it might be more inclined to the new "U-Verse" product (AT&T's video and fiber Internet product) that they are planning on rolling out in the GR area. And you might be able to pay your bill there too

Edited September 22, 2007 by DwntwnGeo

[jbr12]

We go to the AT&T store @ Woodland and Green-whatever Square on Alpine all the time instead of sitting on hold forever to tlak about our bill or change stuff on our plan.

To pay your bill I think you have to use a little kiosk... I don't think you can do that with a human worker

[Veloise]

We go to the AT&T store @ Woodland and Green-whatever Square on Alpine all the time instead of sitting on hold forever to tlak about our bill or change stuff on our plan.

To pay your bill I think you have to use a little kiosk... I don't think you can do that with a human worker

On-line bill pay, using this flash-in-the-pan currently popular fad called "the internet."

HTH

(longtime customer of AT&T/Cingular/whatever they call themselves today)