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GRDadof3

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Village of Knapps Crossing was approved today according to Fox 17 news. Now the race is on for who get the tenants necessary first to go forward.

Hi, I'm new to the site. I don't comment much but thought I'd get your thoughts on this "race is on". It's my understanding that how developers get tenants is by their clout - how big are they and how desireable are their centers. Most deals in today's retail environment are packaged - if you want to go into the Beverly Center in LA that's great but you have to take GR too. So, again, it's my understanding mall development is mostly about who has more leverage. IF that's true can this really be a race? CBL is a big player already well established in Michigan and though they are not a Taubman in the high end quality of their centers (translates to SPSF - the key tenant interest) they plus the other two partners are sure to have more leverage than Evergreen.

What do you think? No matter what though, it's going to be tough to get any major to come here given the economy - a lot of landlord concessions will have to be made I'm guessing and that's expensive.

Thoughts?

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Hi, I'm new to the site. I don't comment much but thought I'd get your thoughts on this "race is on". It's my understanding that how developers get tenants is by their clout - how big are they and how desireable are their centers. Most deals in today's retail environment are packaged - if you want to go into the Beverly Center in LA that's great but you have to take GR too. So, again, it's my understanding mall development is mostly about who has more leverage. IF that's true can this really be a race? CBL is a big player already well established in Michigan and though they are not a Taubman in the high end quality of their centers (translates to SPSF - the key tenant interest) they plus the other two partners are sure to have more leverage than Evergreen.

What do you think? No matter what though, it's going to be tough to get any major to come here given the economy - a lot of landlord concessions will have to be made I'm guessing and that's expensive.

Thoughts?

Welcome charleyhorse. That's what I've been saying throughout this discussion thread is that it will be tough for Evergreen to get a big cadre of high-end tenants in this retail environment. It will more likely be a duplicate of Celebration Village across the street, and it's lackluster tenant list (and vacancies), with a D&W and a Walgreen's.

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Welcome charleyhorse. That's what I've been saying throughout this discussion thread is that it will be tough for Evergreen to get a big cadre of high-end tenants in this retail environment. It will more likely be a duplicate of Celebration Village across the street, and it's lackluster tenant list (and vacancies), with a D&W and a Walgreen's.

Thanks for the welcome - and I appreciate your thoughts, I hadn't read the whole post. But, I also think that in this environment that Orchard Hills may not succeed either unless they "steal" tenants from Woodland or Rivertown. Few fashion nationals would want three stores in this size market and many stores at Rivertown just cannibalized their Woodland sales and had little new net gains. I know they are going after a variety of new-to-West Michigan tenants but like Whole Foods, this is not going to be their primary market of choice. While we may have that 2 million extended reach population, a retailer is going to look at the 10 mile radius for a primary demo and 30 mile for a secondary and despite the affluence of the area, there just isn't a big enough % of population in HH's with incomes over $150,000 to afford the higher end products - today, five years from now, maybe. Those that can buy couture are going to continue to go to Chicago, New York or even Detroit for their fashion items for the larger selection of stores, etc.

If this is correct, and I'm not saying it is, what will Orchard Hills do? If they aim lower and compete directly with Woodland and Rivertown, then that could be disasterous for all. Landlord costs are not going down and CAM won't either for the forseable future, though they are less for lifestyle centers. I've heard that Woodland's are high and the new owner isn't lowering them which may mean they lose tenants to Orchard Hills and then we have three half filled malls. Yikes.

(Gosh, a plane just went down at the airport - I guess there are worse things that could happen than the demise of a shopping center - that gave me a little focus....)

What do you see as a winning plan for all three malls? Can they survive?

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Hi All

We've just updated our blog (The Vooh!) for The Village of Orchard Hills. It includes a new site plan.

Check it out:

www.thevooh.com

Cheers,

GScott

(FYI - as a rule we'll communicate with folks through our blog; except when we post here and elsewhere occasional announcements and updates such as this.)

Edited by GScott
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Hi All

We've just updated our blog (The Vooh!) for The Village of Orchard Hills. It includes a new site plan.

Check it out:

www.thevooh.com

Cheers,

GScott

(FYI - as a rule we'll communicate with folks through our blog; except when we post here and elsewhere occasional announcements and updates such as this.)

Thanks for checking in here Scott. I wondered who had started that blog. Be forewarned that you'll probably get a lot of questions about the possibility of a Whole Foods and a Nordstrom from this crowd. :D

Good luck in Vegas!

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  • 2 months later...

Looks like you may have been right j3shafer. The Village of Knapp's Crossing is seeking approval for a drive-thru window for a new D&W Fresh Market at the Southernmost (Knapp St) end of their project. Here are some renderings of the new D&W. They are also seeking a variance on parking.

2432343940_b1ca59d30f_o.jpg

It appears that they are actually starting on this D&W at Knapp and EBL. They've started demolishing the old Sietsema Orchards processing plant and begun grading on the back (East end) of the parcel. I imagine the old farmhouse won't be around very long, since it's about 5 feet from the new Knapp Street curbs being put in. :blink: Forgive me if you have no idea what I'm talking about. :) Some people here definitely will.

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  • 3 weeks later...

They're really starting to go to town clearing land for the new D&W at Knapp/EBL. I'll have to see if I can get some pics.

Has there been any further confirmation of new restaurants or stores coming to VOOH? I've seen a ton of Dave and Busters and Joe's Crabshack commercials as of late. Maybe an Urban Outfitters seeing how their profits have been great lately. Any inside news?

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Has there been any further confirmation of new restaurants or stores coming to VOOH? I've seen a ton of Dave and Busters and Joe's Crabshack commercials as of late. Maybe an Urban Outfitters seeing how their profits have been great lately. Any inside news?

Nothing. The developer has their own blog about it now, but not much new:

http://www.thevooh.com/

It's funny that the banner rendering on that website has a building on the left with two horses out front, clearly a nod toward PF Chang's.

http://www.planet99.com/pix/12717_1.jpg

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Yeah I've been seeing a lot of different commercials lately...

Dave & Busters

Jack In The Box

Joe's Crashback

White Castle

There was another one too - a furniture store and I can't remember what the stinkin name was - it was something different that we don't have here in the area. (not ikea)

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Yeah I've been seeing a lot of different commercials lately...

Dave & Busters

Jack In The Box

Joe's Crashback

White Castle

There was another one too - a furniture store and I can't remember what the stinkin name was - it was something different that we don't have here in the area. (not ikea)

I also heard an REI (large outdoor gear store) commercial on WGRD this morning. I thought, that's weird, I'm sure we don't have one of those around here. Sure enough, Ann Arbor is the closest. It also listed the one in suburban Milwaukee as the 3rd closest. If only I had some wings. :)

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Yeah I've been seeing a lot of different commercials lately...

Dave & Busters

Jack In The Box

Joe's Crashback

White Castle

There was another one too - a furniture store and I can't remember what the stinkin name was - it was something different that we don't have here in the area. (not ikea)

I haven't seen any of those. I must not watch the right channels. :dontknow:

Here's the site clearing going on:

Where the old Sytsema Orchards processing plant was

2787159653_bd53172e62_b.jpg

Widening of Knapp St to Dunnigan:

2788013782_06c3c54b53_b.jpg

Where the back entrance/docks will eventually be:

2788014680_df3f6f2eb7_b.jpg

Even my oldest daughter mentioned how many trees they were taking down for this D&W.

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Yeah I've been seeing a lot of different commercials lately...

Dave & Busters

Jack In The Box

Joe's Crashback

White Castle

There was another one too - a furniture store and I can't remember what the stinkin name was - it was something different that we don't have here in the area. (not ikea)

Aww man White Castle! There is nothing like a slider and onion petals at 2am. Seriously...

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  • 2 months later...

:yahoo: I am sitting with the "West Michigan Retail Market Trends Third Quarter 2008 Report" of Grubb & Ellis and could not be happier (except if this was going downtown).

In the third paragraph of the front page, they say "The lifestyle center at East Beltline and 3 Mile Rd. NE recently signed an upscale department store as a tenant, and is scheduled to break ground in fall of 2009". With THAT cat out of the bag, I'm betting on Von Maur, Dillards and <insert drum-roll>, of course either Lord & Taylor or Nordstrom.

With all that is going on with retail in the Midwest now, I would have to admit that the most likely candidate is Von Maur. This is logical since they are the retailer most aggressively going after and catering to all of the disgruntled Marshall Fields devotees in the Midwest that now refuse to shop at MessyMart . . . . er, Macy's.

Edited by metrogrkid
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:yahoo: I am sitting with the "West Michigan Retail Market Trends Third Quarter 2008 Report" of Grubb & Ellis and could not be happier (except if this was going downtown).

In the third paragraph of the front page, they say "The lifestyle center at East Beltline and 3 Mile Rd. NE recently signed an upscale department store as a tenant, and is scheduled to break ground in fall of 2009". With THAT cat out of the bag, I'm betting on Von Maur, Dillards and <insert drum-roll>, of course either Lord & Taylor or Nordstrom.

With all that is going on with retail in the Midwest now, I would have to admit that the most likely candidate is Von Maur. This is logical since they are the retailer most aggressively going after and catering to all of the disgruntled Marshall Fields devotees in the Midwest that now refuse to shop at MessyMart . . . . er, Macy's.

Break ground in the Fall of 09' or 08'?

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To be honest, I'm surprised that this project is still moving forward. I can't imagine the GR area absorbing that much retail / restaurants right now without having a wave of closings throughout the metro area (especially in the 28th street corridor). Also, who would consider financing a project of this magnitude? Common sense seems to say the dots just don't connect right now.

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Good afternoon,

I have an exciting announcement that I wanted to share with you: Department store Von Maur signed a Letter of Intent to join us for the 2011 debut of the Village of Orchard Hills in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Once open, the Village will be Western Michigan's first and only Main Street lifestyle center.

We have some additional information regarding this great news on our project blog.

http://www.thevooh.com

Entries recently published on the blog include:

Blog Post 1: "The Announcement"

Blog Post 2: "What Does This Mean for National and Local Retailers?"

Blog Post 3: "What Does This Mean for Michigan's West Coast?"

Blog Post 4: "Grand Rapids has community strategy, access to cash, 'can-do' spirit"

Blog Post 5: "The Village of Rochester Hills on Youtube"

Cheers,

Scott Aikens

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Good afternoon,

I have an exciting announcement that I wanted to share with you: Department store Von Maur signed a Letter of Intent to join us for the 2011 debut of the Village of Orchard Hills in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Once open, the Village will be Western Michigan's first and only Main Street lifestyle center.

Thanks for the info Scott! Since Von Maur is new to the area, is there a similar store that you would compare them to? Are they full size like a Younkers, or more like a Parisian?

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