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GRDadof3

East Beltline Developments

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rolleyes.gifWe're all probably better off in the long run. Goes to show that Spartan hitched their wagon to the wrong star; Michigan and Fuller would've been the way to go!

Still, there's plenty of spots to open a new PF Chang's - I think we have room for more than one, actually. Hopefully this experience didn't sour them to the GR market and they will plan to look for other locations.

Since the only successful developers in GR these days are the ones focusing on the city's core, PF Chang's may be better off locating along the downtown-Gaslight Village corridor if they're serious about the GR market. Seems like Locus gets stuff done, and they're looking to fill the JA building. :whistling: Though I'm not sure if their target segment coincides with any of those neighborhoods. Chang's likes to locate in or near malls and movie theaters with high traffic volumes (foot or vehicular, whatever applies). I see potential in some places though. Perhaps the Wealthy/Division project, which will be near the new farmers market and the growing Heartside district; perhaps Fulton/Division corner, which is closer to all the downtown activity. What about Celebration Village? Or Woodland- they've been pretty active building out that outdoor plaza recently.

I'll have to spend some time researching market studies of the city's neighborhoods once I'm done with my final exams. I just kind of talked myself out of thinking they might locate downtown.

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I see the gap between the Arena and the building with Sanchez as a perfect fit for a PF Changs... I think I was dreaming.

jdkacz:

On the contrary, you were in NO WAY dreaming. You were simply experiencing a fit of GENIUS and a convulsion of VISION. These attacks pass only if you let them. DON'T and keep them coming more often. I'd love to see your insight put toward some of Downtown GR's under-utilized PERIPHERAL HUB sites like SouthGate (U.S.-131/Wealthy Street Interchange), Cherry Street Landing's Dash Lots 4 & 5 (where the movie theatre/hotel/housing/shops development was being proposed) and Westbank City (the YMCA/Dash West Lots) to name a few. Definitely some downtown sites to make you go hmmmm....

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Updates:

) Block walls of PF Changs are going up. It also looks like they may be forging ahead with one of the other buildings? A lot of site work going on.

) Aldi's in Celebration Village is well underway. Yippy... Also, the Bostons pizza place is becoming a credit union, renovations underway.

) Exxel Engineering is out staking all over the property at 3 Mile and Beltline. I know the original village is dead, and Aikens is out of the picture, but apparently they're (bdr is) kicking around a smaller scale 300,000 sf version. Anyone know the details?

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Is the Arnie's still planning on being built near Meijer? The PF Chang's folks are really moving on this site. Domino developments planned? Or still years away?

Edited by jdkacz

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It sure looks like Chang's is going to face the Belt line instead of the "village main street". Does anyone else agree that this seems very contradictory to the original concept of the "village" - and perhaps at the same time even comically predictable?

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It sure looks like Chang's is going to face the Belt line instead of the "village main street". Does anyone else agree that this seems very contradictory to the original concept of the "village" - and perhaps at the same time even comically predictable?

Yep, looks like the front door will face Beltline. But it also looks like they're building a deck/outdoor patio facing the village street. I don't get what is going on with all the site work either.

Here's the last site plan I had:

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And in this corner. Representing Grandville, the ghost of X-Rite and wearing a great big Target. It's PUD #2. Let the rumble begin.

More dirt moving and signage work is on the books for 44th & Ivanrest. Other than Target, I thought there was talk of an MVP-type sports facility too.

This one has been in the works for a few years like Knapps. Are developers anticipating a shopping friendly economy soon?

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It sure looks like Chang's is going to face the Belt line instead of the "village main street". Does anyone else agree that this seems very contradictory to the original concept of the "village" - and perhaps at the same time even comically predictable?

Scratch my other post. Site plans and elevations. It totally faces the Beltline and has its back toward the village. Did we expect any different?

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And all that site work they're doing? Wait for it....parking!!

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I assume these are stock water colors, as we don't have a lot of sand around here:

5976593528_921ecd1c09_z.jpg

5976593564_3fc78dc239_z.jpg

5976593602_6645681c3f_z.jpg

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It sure looks like Chang's is going to face the Belt line instead of the "village main street". Does anyone else agree that this seems very contradictory to the original concept of the "village" - and perhaps at the same time even comically predictable?

Can't wait to see the next hand of cards.

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They don't even try to disguise the fact they've got a blank wall facing the street.

What do you mean?? There are a couple of small trees in front of it.

I can smell the bait and switch from here.

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They don't even try to disguise the fact they've got a blank wall facing the street.

I was just thinking about what I said about this in 2005.

"Will this project be completed at the same time or will they hit "snags" along the way and we end up with a "compromise village", where we have large, visible parking lots, blank wall buildings, no residental, and dozens of retailers that decided to build near this project following none of the basic elements of the "village" concept?"

Pretty much can see that yep, this is turning into a cluster of compromise, and switch-a-roos.

All of this could have been avoided by just building in existing urban areas.

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It's a shame, too, because I know of at least one PF Chang's that built in a "village" that was constructed on the site of a dead mall in an older suburb. The building is very much in line with the village concept, built with the main doors opening to the sidewalk that parallels the village main street, and the side of the building is parallel to the major arterial that passes by the "village" (actually, the "village" is the downtown for the suburan city which never had one up until the "village" was developed and now has a whole mix of uses). Parking is to the rear or available on-street less than half a block away from the restaurant.

There are probably other examples around the country where PF Chang's fit into the "village" design. Why was the company let off the hook here? If an older suburban community trying to revive the site of a dead mall/greyfield and facing other economic challenges can hold tight, why can't the jurisdiction involved here (GR? GR Township? Other?) hold tight in this case??? Anyone know?

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Best case scenario: This will be our version of Eastwood Towne Center sick.png

Oh gawd, yuck.

It's a shame, too, because I know of at least one PF Chang's that built in a "village" that was constructed on the site of a dead mall in an older suburb. The building is very much in line with the village concept, built with the main doors opening to the sidewalk that parallels the village main street, and the side of the building is parallel to the major arterial that passes by the "village" (actually, the "village" is the downtown for the suburan city which never had one up until the "village" was developed and now has a whole mix of uses). Parking is to the rear or available on-street less than half a block away from the restaurant.

There are probably other examples around the country where PF Chang's fit into the "village" design. Why was the company let off the hook here? If an older suburban community trying to revive the site of a dead mall/greyfield and facing other economic challenges can hold tight, why can't the jurisdiction involved here (GR? GR Township? Other?) hold tight in this case??? Anyone know?

It's in the City of Grand Rapids. I'm not sure what happened and why it was allowed to be built this way.

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I guess you could say that seeing people dining out front will help draw other customers in. At least it works with sidewalk seating in urban areas. But who is really going to want to sit outside and watch / hear the Beltline Traffic. At the very least I would have expected them to put the patio on one of the side elevations.

I actually don't mind the big blank wall and the giant graphic, as some side has to have the kitchen, but I think they missed an opportunity. If the big blank wall faced East Beltline (or even had its side to the road), that graphic wall would make a great and appropriate billboard.

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I guess you could say that seeing people dining out front will help draw other customers in. At least it works with sidewalk seating in urban areas. But who is really going to want to sit outside and watch / hear the Beltline Traffic. At the very least I would have expected them to put the patio on one of the side elevations.

I actually don't mind the big blank wall and the giant graphic, as some side has to have the kitchen, but I think they missed an opportunity. If the big blank wall faced East Beltline (or even had its side to the road), that graphic wall would make a great and appropriate billboard.

What they should have done was built on the NW corner of that area of the village, and put the patio and front door facing the main drive into the village. Then they could have seating facing the village where there will be more pedestrians (assuming), visible from the East Beltline. Two birds with one stone.

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Why all the 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' talk now? Community/neighborhood antipathy during the input and planning stage?

Unless a neighbor lived close enough to be noticed, and attended the planning commission meeting, there'd be no public input to the design.

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Why all the 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' talk now? Community/neighborhood antipathy during the input and planning stage?

I think most people in the City of GR don't even know that area is in the city, and don't really care what is built there. Plus, the planning of this project went on for I believe 4 or 5 years. Who has the stamina to keep up with that?

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Today's Yehuda Moon comic really struck a chord with me and with this development (not to mention the Celebration "Village" next door, and twoshort's recent "Uh, did you guys miss the bike rack in the plans? Doesn't that alone make it a 'village' concept?" comment).

Start on 7-17's comic and read forward if you want to see the backstory. And if you're a fan of Yehuda Moon, this B&W flashback seems to be a major development in the backstory of his character.

http://www.yehudamoo...date=2011-08-04

2011-08-04.gif

Edited by fotoman311

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