East Beltline Developments

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I think another main road north might help but it'd probably end up too far out if they went East (Lowell)?

I personally think a good (but complex) option would be to finish what they started when they extended Jupiter across the river. They ended it at Plainfield, which seems like a horrible spot. If they could extend it further (maybe 4 mile and Beltline) that could reduce a lot of the northbound congestion up to Rockford. 

Joe

If this were a Southern State like North Carolina, they'd run a highway straight up from I-96 between Lowell and Cascade and connect with 131 at the North end. Then run another one from 131 West across "the ridge" and end up in the Coopersville area at I-96. Whether anyone needed it or not. Then it would all infill with growth and it would be annexed into the city of GR. 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

If this were a Southern State like North Carolina, they'd run a highway straight up from I-96 between Lowell and Cascade and connect with 131 at the North end. Then run another one from 131 West across "the ridge" and end up in the Coopersville area at I-96. Whether anyone needed it or not. Then it would all infill with growth and it would be annexed into the city of GR. 

 

That wouldn't be so bad, at least they use a little bit of foresight.   I think a highway basically continuing M6 between Georgetown and Hudsonville north through Allendale and connecting to 96 would be a good idea.  GR will continue to spread out that way and it would give an alternative route from say Lansing to Grand Haven.

[Raildude's dad]

On 3/30/2016 at 6:05 PM, joeDowntown said:

I think another main road north might help but it'd probably end up too far out if they went East (Lowell)?

I personally think a good (but complex) option would be to finish what they started when they extended Jupiter across the river. They ended it at Plainfield, which seems like a horrible spot. If they could extend it further (maybe 4 mile and Beltline) that could reduce a lot of the northbound congestion up to Rockford. 

Joe

Jupiter from Plainfield to Post / US131 is the only portion built of a corridor proposed from Breton and 28th north. The plans for the bridge over the Grand were originally drawn pre - 1972 and the bridge finally built in 1999. The corridor was proposed to utilize Breton, Lake Drive, Plymouth, Dean Lake and Jupiter s of Plainfield. Needless to say, it wasn't well received by residents of those streets

I think if i dig deep enough in the archives i might be able to find something on the proposal.

 

The East Beltline would have looked like 28th St except for the efforts of Grand Rapids, Grand Rapids Twp and Plainfield Twp to have it develop like you see today. GR caved in at Knapp but the rest is not retail.

[joeDowntown]

Looks like Freshii and Chipotle are coming to Knapp's Crossing. 

Joe

[joeDowntown]

Interesting video. They took names off but there is a bit of a wink and a nudge to some of the retailers mentioned before. As Jeff pointed out, the facades are strikingly similar to some major retailers out there.

Joe

[GR8scott]

hopefully these stores currently not in the area, still make it. Also wasnt there talk a few years back of the road being widen to 3 lanes in both directions between 96 and knapp? That is long overdue bu realistically should be widened all the way down to M6

[getemngo]

2 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Also wasnt there talk a few years back of the road being widen to 3 lanes in both directions between 96 and knapp? That is long overdue bu realistically should be widened all the way down to M6

There's nothing about it in MDOT's 2015-19 plan. My understanding is that MDOT's next widening priority (well, after the I-196 bridge over the Grand River) is to extend the 6-lane portion of I-196 all the way east to I-96, totally rebuild the I-96/I-196 and I-96/East Beltline interchanges, and widen I-96 to 6 lanes between Leonard and 28th. But none of that shows up on the 5-year plan, either. In fact, it looks like I-196 is going to get significant rebuilding work east of Fuller, including replacing the bridges over Plymouth, with no widening at all.

I'm glad the city and county are giving it their all when it comes to roads, because MDOT just doesn't have the resources to do anything.

[GRLaker]

Widening of all main arteries needs to definitely be a priority. The region's population has exploded to the point where the infrastructure can no longer handle it. Demand calls for 3 lanes each way on I-196 between I-96 and Grandville, I-96 to M6, And I-96 to US-131. East Beltline should be 3 lanes in each direction from the Grand River down to M6. 28th St should be 6 lanes, but that is much more difficult considering it is lined with businesses from Grandville to Cascade. 44th Street...Same. Wilson from the Grand River to I-96 should be 4 lanes and not TWO.   

Edited August 19, 2016 by GRLaker

[MJLO]

2 hours ago, GRLaker said:

2 hours ago, GRLaker said:

 Wilson from the Grand River to I-96 should be 4 lanes and not TWO.   

 

Really what they need is a West Beltine.  Extend M6 to I-96 Near Marne.   If all they do is expand Wilson it needs to be a divided BLVD.  I've never seen a 2 lane road with nothing but residential so gridlocked.

[getemngo]

Wilson was originally supposed to be the West Beltline. 3 Mile would have been the North Beltline, and 28th St was the original South Beltline (which is how the Beltline Bar got its name).

[Guest]

From what I heard from a pretty reliable source MDOT won't widen the E. Beltline until after the E. Beltline/96/196 interchange is redone.  I think that probably won't get started until 2017 or 2018.  By the time they actually get to it, it may need 4 lanes each way, especially with continued growth and development along the E. Beltline, not to mention 1,000+ new commuters from switch, I would guess at least half would use a portion of the beltline.

Meanwhile, MDOT is beginning their 14 year project on 75. The east side always seems to get priory over the rest of Michigan

[arcturus]

I think we've all noticed how much busier the roads are these days.  To me one of the biggest choke points remains the 131 S curve.  No matter what improvements are made north or south of it, it won't make much of a difference while the curve still exists.  And don't get my going about the off ramp on NB 131 at Wealthy.  What a disaster.

[Raildude's dad]

You can forget about any substantial state highway roadway improvements until the legislature steps up and increases the gas and weight tax to fund the improvements. The last legislative action regarding the gas tax requires a general fund appropriation each year. There's talk already of not making the appropriation the first year.

[arcturus]

20 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

You can forget about any substantial state highway roadway improvements until the legislature steps up and increases the gas and weight tax to fund the improvements. The last legislative action regarding the gas tax requires a general fund appropriation each year. There's talk already of not making the appropriation the first year.

Increase the gas tax or make a better case for reallocation of existing state funds?  If the growth here is outpacing most of the state then the metro area should stand to receive a higher proportion plus gas consumption is way up.

[Raildude's dad]

The current gas and weight tax doesn't generate enough to maintain the current system,(thus the legislative appropriation each year)  let alone make the necessary capacity improvements.The reason you see so much road work in GR proper is the City of GR residents voted a tax increase to repair city streets. Our legislators don't seem to get that voters do approve tax increases for schools, police, fire and roads.

[twoshort]

On 8/17/2016 at 9:02 PM, joeDowntown said:

Interesting video. They took names off but there is a bit of a wink and a nudge to some of the retailers mentioned before. As Jeff pointed out, the facades are strikingly similar to some major retailers out there. 

Joe

What's the status here anyway?  Are they looking for retailers?  Waiting for buildings to be done?  37 pages of discussion and I've lost track.

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, twoshort said:

What's the status here anyway?  Are they looking for retailers?  Waiting for buildings to be done?  37 pages of discussion and I've lost track.

Good question. You'd think this would be a pretty easy development to fill, but other than interior work on Freshii, an Art Van Pure Sleep store and Chipotle, they don't seem to be doing anything to the rest of the site. The new buildings look done. It might get pretty quiet over there if they don't break ground on something soon  

Joe

[arcturus]

When a tax has a nearly immediate, local benefit of course the chances of passage increase (even if it's passed by a small % of total registered voters in off election years).  I don't swallow the belief that tax increases are an automatic solution, especially if its tied to other spending bills, without close scrutiny of other revenue/expense variables.  

Let's take accountability for example when it comes to state-issued contracts.  Anyone driving M-6 between Wilson & 196 knows how bad that stretch is.  Repairs shouldn't have been needed for years to come.  Worse, it appears the contractor is off the hook, or the state gave the green light anyway knowing the material was substandard and would ultimately cost the taxpayers MORE.   Where was the oversight?  Where was the teeth in that contract?  No, the public is fed up with blank checks without accountability and as Flint proved, fed up with system that not only rewards incompetence but allows those same decision makers to continue receiving a salary plus hire lawyers at state expense.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/08/19/pay-restored-6-employees-suspended-over-flint-water-crisis/88988134/

This is not a good time to ask taxpayers to open their wallet.  $ needs to be found elsewhere because it sure as hell won't be coming from the voters anytime soon, at least when it comes to state projects.  

[Raildude's dad]

MDOT highway contracts are specification based contracts. The DOT engineers or their consultants design the pavement specifying the materials to be used. The contractor builds what he is told to build. Something went wrong is wrong with that section of pavement but you're off base saying the state deliberately accepted substandard material. That section was opened in 2004. That's 12 years ago already. The first piece opened 15 years ago.

Pavements are designed in this country (yes US of A) for a 20 year design life. I will tell you the concrete pavement from 28th St to Ann Street except for the S-curve and the patches is the original pavement placed in the late 50's. The taxpayers have gotten their monies worth out of those slabs that are over 60 years old.

It doesn't help that MDOT is burdened with paying off John Engler's Build MI 1, 2, and 3 bond programs  and the one that Granholm did also.

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Raildude's dad

[jas49503]

Someone else here probably knows better than me, but i think I heard that there was a change of some key component in the composition of concrete that makes it less durable than what they used to use. 

[joeDowntown]

In other news, I heard Sunshine Church is selling their entire complex. One mile of East Beltline frontage and 100+ acres of property. Let the speculation begin. 

[getemngo]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

In other news, I heard Sunshine Church is selling their entire complex. One mile of East Beltline frontage and 100+ acres of property. Let the speculation begin. 

This wouldn't surprise me one bit. Sunshine had over 2,000 members when its current building (seating capacity: 3,500) opened in 1989. As of 2015, there are 667 members with an average attendance of 412.

[joeDowntown]

8 hours ago, getemngo said:

This wouldn't surprise me one bit. Sunshine had over 2,000 members when its current building (seating capacity: 3,500) opened in 1989. As of 2015, there are 667 members with an average attendance of 412.

Yeah, the outside of the church has definitely seen better days. I heard everything will get bulldozed (including the church). I have no idea what will go on the site but it's big enough for just about anything. 

[thebeerqueer]

12 hours ago, jas49503 said:

Someone else here probably knows better than me, but i think I heard that there was a change of some key component in the composition of concrete that makes it less durable than what they used to use. 

You're right. At the time of construction, one of components of concrete wasn't available but construction moved on with a less durable component, knowing full well that the lifespan of the concrete would be diminished. As someone who negotiates, reviews and approves contracts for a job, this is fairly appalling. Either the contractor is laughing all the way to the bank or the state was too focused on getting that stretch of M6 completed. Either way its a terrible situation. 

[arcturus]

16 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

Something went wrong is wrong with that section of pavement but you're off base saying the state deliberately accepted substandard material. That section was opened in 2004. That's 12 years ago already. The first piece opened 15 years ago.

 

Yeah right, explain to me why the section east all the way to I-96 is perfectly fine.  Deliberately accepted?  Quite possibly.  Did they know about it?  I'm sure they'll have a memory loss explaining it to the taxpayers.