East Beltline Developments

[PBJ]

That would be my guess. What do you think?

i would agree, but some of the stores you find in Chicago/East Side (H&M, Urban Outfitter) offer other brands that are just hard to find here, such a diesel. Granted many people look at you funny when you say you paid $150 for jeans that are pre-ripped/stained. I'm not sure how big of a market we have here in GR for that price range of clothing.

[twoshort]

That would be my guess. What do you think?

You could be off by a few percent, but I know some of my friends who have transplanted here via college from Metro Detroit have commented about the lack of certain brand names. They still find plenty to buy here in good old GR. There are some womens boutiques that sell unique name brands, but I don't know of any mens stores that do that. I'm also not sure there's a need for one.

[GRGridGirl]

I'm afraid you won't. People might support downtown and approve millages for schools, or a bond issue for a museum, or arena, or something like that, but to get people to change their "already busy schedules" to go downtown to shop at a locally owned shoe store that's similar to one in the burbs. Ain't gonna happen. And you can get mad as hell at these narrow-minded thinkers, but how many times have you (not necessarily you eagle) shopped locally vs. nationally lately. Even locally owned suburban stores are a dying breed.

I shop local 99.9% of the time. In fact, I don't mind paying the extra few bucks to do so, since I'm saving money on gas; saving peace of mind from avoiding crazy 28th St/Alpine/44th St drivers; and saving time cause I'm already in the hood'.

[GRDadof3]

Here ya go folks (for those interested):

http://www.thevillagegrt.com/

[GR_Urbanist]

Here ya go folks (for those interested):

http://www.thevillagegrt.com/

Q.How does a project like this differ from a strip

mall or regional shopping center?

A.The two are distinctly different. On a basic level,

the village square concept combines the convenience

of a strip mall with the upscale shopping options

found usually only in regional shopping centers.

So it is just a slightly less crappy version of a strip mall?

I swear that whole website was full of more developer Bravo Serria than I thought possible. These guys could sell a parking lot as a mixed-use project.

I cannot tell where this isnt going to be anything more than the typical big box development dressed up in Disneyland architecture, all with tons of parking surrounding it on all sides.

I guess a the bar is set pretty low for what is excepted as a village.

[twoshort]

So it is just a slightly less crappy version of a strip mall?

Have you been to any of their other projects or projects like this? While I don't see it as a village, its definately not a strip mall.

[Prankster]

Call it what you want, it is still urban sprawl, and will create more sprawl on top of it.

[twoshort]

Call it what you want, it is still urban sprawl, and will create more sprawl on top of it.

You'll here no argument from me on that point. Unfortunately, I do want those stores here and they aren't going downtown.

[torgo]

Think of it as a shopping mall with no roof that happens to have some condos on the outside making it "mixed-use". Because really, a shopping mall is a cartoony, pretend-village with a roof over it. There are stores facing a central "right-of-way", a "median" where people can sit, tree planters, etc.

I agree that this "village" is sprawl, but I think it will be better than a typical strip mall / shopping center, but not by a lot. I'm sure there will be PLENTY of parking.

[GRDadof3]

Those people in the pictures did all look to be a little TOO happy

[GR_Urbanist]

Have you been to any of their other projects or projects like this? While I don't see it as a village, its definately not a strip mall.

A couple of weeks ago my wife had an apointment in E. Lansing. While she was busy I went across the street to a place called "Eastwood Towne Center". It looked like they just built it recently. Although they tried hard to make the store fronts look nice, it was still just the typical suburban mall fluff we see here. The center section in the middle of all the parking was as close as you got to pedestrain friendly. Thats not saying much.

Here is their website:

http://www.shopeastwoodtownecenter.com/index.html

There was no housing nearby. And sure enough, behind the mall was a standard issue Wal-Mart.

I guess I'm not expecting anything special from this one in GR twp. Its a step up from Celebration, but light- years from ideal.

[torgo]

Its a step up from Celebration, but light- years from ideal.

I think you are exactly right. Its a step in the right direction, but its only a baby-step.

[GRDadof3]

I think you are exactly right. Its a step in the right direction, but its only a baby-step.

There's a hearing tonight at GR Twp hall at 7:00 for those interested. They can be quite entertaining, if you are not the one trying to push a project through.

[Prankster]

Nothing like a good old fashioned NIMBY fight. Waaa, Waaa, too much traffic, Waaa, lower quality of life, Waaa.

[torgo]

Nothing like a good old fashioned NIMBY fight. Waaa, Waaa, too much traffic, Waaa, lower quality of life, Waaa.

Believe it or not, I don't blame some of those NIMBYs out there. If I lived out there (I don't) I might oppose everything that came along too, just because its all ugly, its all poorly designed and loaded with a zillion acres of parking. I guess that would make me more of a BANANA.

[Prankster]

Believe it or not, I don't blame some of those NIMBYs out there. If I lived out there (I don't) I might oppose everything that came along too, just because its all ugly, its all poorly designed and loaded with a zillion acres of parking. I guess that would make me more of a BANANA.

Not at all like their beautifully designed McMansions.

[GRDadof3]

Yes but, if they had their way, they would have small strip malls put along the Beltline. Or single-family homes Nothing like 50,000 cars a day to rattle your foundation a little. Believe me, they are not anywhere near the level of thinking of you guys. I know, I live here (and not in a McMansion)

[allbusiness]

It's very difficult to "create" a downtown environment where one hasn't evolved through history. It doesn't help that nearly every township zoning ordinance I've read literally makes illegal anything that even begins to resemble a traditional "downtown" -- mixed uses, 2nd story residential, no setbacks, no sideyards, no required parking for each business, common sidewalls, etc.

Thankfully many of our traditional downtown areas have seen a nice resurgence of activity over the past few years.

I think people really yearn for the ability to spend time in a small, community environment where they can buy a book, sip a latte, shop for a greeting card, walk their dog and chat with their neighbors. And not one that they typically have to drive to.

It would be great to see a real, planned, new-urbanist type of community work here in West Michigan. Something like Seaside or Haile Plantation in Florida.

The danger is that these places become homogeneous, elite, gated communities. Mixed housing becomes a vital part of any plan.

[GRDadof3]

The latest on this is that the developer wants to add another parcel and almost double the residential units to 150 or so.

The Village developers propose more homes...

I didn't bring it up because it sounded like there weren't a lot of fans of the development here

[Sunlover38]

The latest on this is that the developer wants to add another parcel and almost double the residential units to 150 or so.

The Village developers propose more homes...

I didn't bring it up because it sounded like there weren't a lot of fans of the development here

Too much to read on here . . . missed this post before . .. thanks for the info . .

[GRDadof3]

Developer seeks rezoning for lifestlye center

The developers are back seeking rezoning under a newly amended PUD-5 ordinance. This is the development which I have heard will contain a PF Chang's.

[francishsu]

I wonder why some people were opposed to the PUD-5 ordinance. It requires construction of the commercial and non-commercial parts simultaneously. Seems like the people opposed just don't want to see any commercial development at all?

[GRDadof3]

I wonder why some people were opposed to the PUD-5 ordinance. It requires construction of the commercial and non-commercial parts simultaneously. Seems like the people opposed just don't want to see any commercial development at all?

Precisely: BANANA's (they're worse than NIMBY's). Many people in Grand Rapids Township along the E Beltline area would PREFER small strip malls one after another. It boggles the mind. And these same people won't go to Plainfield Avenue to shop, even though it's exactly that, a collection of small strip malls. Nothing planned, nothing cohesive, no walkability.

[civitas]

I wonder why some people were opposed to the PUD-5 ordinance. It requires construction of the commercial and non-commercial parts simultaneously. Seems like the people opposed just don't want to see any commercial development at all?

The people opposed to the PUD-5 are the same people who were opposed to the lifestyle ordinance. They represent the proposed competing development in the City of Grand Rapids and want to stop or seriously delay the Grand Rapids Township development.

The requirement that the commercial and residential portions get constructed concurrently seems reasonable. Otherwise the developer would draw whatever residential the township wanted and then not build it.

Edited April 19, 2006 by civitas

[francishsu]

The requirement that the commercial and residential portions get constructed concurrently seems reasonable. Otherwise the developer would draw whatever residential the township wanted and then not build it.

I agree. When I read that part of it, I was pretty impressed that they put that restriction in there. That's why I wasn't sure about the nature of the opposition. From what you're saying, it sounds like the objection is more from the city rather than township residents? Or is it more like two different opposition interests banding together?