East Beltline Developments

[joeDowntown]

Shrug. While it would have been great to turn out as they envisioned, it’s not the end of the world. Yep, it’s a strip mall. And yep, it’ll probably do well. 

Joe

[wingbert]

I thought the high end development was to be a bit further north but that developer who was experienced in these kind of things threw in the towel when the strip mall king (Benner or Brenner?) got the go ahead to start this hot mess?

[Raildude's dad]

The other development was at 3 Mile where Spectrum is. Name is Benner, bad news guy :(,   All talk.

[joeDowntown]

On 9/4/2018 at 12:45 PM, Raildude's dad said:

The other development was at 3 Mile where Spectrum is. Name is Benner, bad news guy :(,   All talk.

I was actually going to say, at least Benner doesn’t own it (anymore).

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

The other development was at 3 Mile where Spectrum is. Name is Benner, bad news guy :(,   All talk.

The one at 3 Mile was optioned by BDR Development and was going to be a high-end village concept with residential townhomes. Never came to fruition.  It's now Spectrum and that apartment complex and various office outlots.

Steve Benner owned the land at Knapp and Beltline where Knapp's Crossing was, bought it for cash from the orchard (Sytsema's?). He no longer owns it. It was auctioned off in bankruptcy if I remember correctly. Or he just bailed out and sold it.The whole site was engineered incorrectly from what I hear.

It's now owned by Visser Construction (local) and Lormax Stern out of Southeast Michigan. They tried to make it upscale but I think the new Woodland poached all of their prospects. Not to mention Breton Village getting aggressive with new tenants and their rebuild. With what they're up against I think TJ Maxx and Old Navy are commendable for Knapp's Crossing. 

[Guest]

High end would have made more sense with all the money to the north and east.  I'm just surprised how close some of these are to the other locations, they probably did the numbers though,.  I don't know anyone that shops at any of those places.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:

High end would have made more sense with all the money to the north and east.  I'm just surprised how close some of these are to the other locations, they probably did the numbers though,.  I don't know anyone that shops at any of those places.

You need to get to know more people then. The neighborhood I used to live in that's only about a mile from there, people (women) were freaking out that a TJ Maxx was going in there. i.e. excited. 

[MJLO]

I really think it has more to do with PREIT being so aggressive with their pretty regular re-imaging of Woodland.  Despite being over 50 years old Woodland is still in a higher traffic corridor, still closer to the money of EGR and Cascade, and is hosting a collection of better brands.  PREIT does a great job of maintaining facilities, and modernizing where needed.  Higher end brands tend to cluster next to each other.   Grand Rapids quite simply is not big enough for more than one premium spot  with upper echelon brands.  Woodland just makes more sense.  As the Von Maur corridor takes shape at Woodland I'd put money on a continuation of new brands announcing commitments.

[GRDadof3]

9 hours ago, MJLO said:

I really think it has more to do with PREIT being so aggressive with their pretty regular re-imaging of Woodland.  Despite being over 50 years old Woodland is still in a higher traffic corridor, still closer to the money of EGR and Cascade, and is hosting a collection of better brands.  PREIT does a great job of maintaining facilities, and modernizing where needed.  Higher end brands tend to cluster next to each other.   Grand Rapids quite simply is not big enough for more than one premium spot  with upper echelon brands.  Woodland just makes more sense.  As the Von Maur corridor takes shape at Woodland I'd put money on a continuation of new brands announcing commitments.

Speaking of that I think the entire shell of that wing is up now. I noticed it a few weeks ago and was surprised it had progressed so much, after the demo and land-clearing took so long. 

Maybe @crinzema can get some drone shots.

[Sparty97]

I live out that way, so I was personally hoping for more.  I get the idea that being near the corner of 28th and the EBL would be more attractive for brands that will only have one location.   Having an REI in town means that I will probably start to shop online there (knowing I have a place to return it) but if it had been out at Knapp's Corner, I probably would have made a weekly stop there...

[ZAP!]

2 minutes ago, wingbert said:

I’ll wager you’re going to see more urban youth fistfights and thuggish behavior at Woodland than at Knapp’s Corner.

Could you dog whistle a little louder? I didn't quite catch your message. 

[wingbert]

Sorry Pollyanna but history doesn’t lie.

[MJLO]

59 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Sorry Pollyanna but history doesn’t lie.

Abrasiveness aside you’re painting a very caricatured picture.  Not at all reflective of current realities (or past realities for that matter).

[GR_Urbanist]

Well We cant be dishonest. Woodland has had issues in the past during its low point, My sister referred to it as "Hoodland" back in the previous decade, and did not allow her teen kids to go there because some bad apples were really making trouble. Yes, we are all black (whatever),

It wasn't an unfair characterization back at the time, but I cant say that it was ever unsafe the few times I went there over the past decade, so I guess it has bounced back since the mid late-2000s.

I'm more than certain that the mall is a top-tier destination these days. With these high-end retailers coming in, any bad behavior by bored teens wont be tolerated.

But meh, I hate malls anyway, and find teen weird. I rarely even find myself in the area.

 

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, wingbert said:

I’ll wager you’re going to see more urban youth fistfights and thuggish behavior at Woodland than at Knapp’s Corner.  I’m not sure that worrying about being shot is consistent with an upscale vibe.

Not to feed the troll but.....

urban thuggish youth?  Why not just say what you really mean?

Also, how many shootings have there been at woodland?  This is America, you can get shot anywhere.

Malls always attract young people.  I've seen fights, shoplifters, etc at almost every mall, regardless of race.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:

Not to feed the troll but.....

urban thuggish youth?  Why not just say what you really mean?

Also, how many shootings have there been at woodland?  This is America, you can get shot anywhere.

Malls always attract young people.  I've seen fights, shoplifters, etc at almost every mall, regardless of race.

Thugs are thugs no matter what the color. I've seen some pretty friggin scary young white men in my day.

Woodland used to attract a large African American crowd on weekends about a decade ago, and many of the altercations resulted in violence and injuries. I watched a group of about 30 - 40 black kids in a melee in Macy's (or maybe it was Hudsons back then). I heard someone yell something about a knife. We got out of there before we saw what the result was. It was about 15 years ago. 

I've seen a similar "mob" of white people at apartment complex parties in college, blitzed out of their minds. 

I rarely, rarely go to the mall anymore though, especially on weekends, so I have no idea what the scene is like there (or at Rivertown). 

[ZAP!]

9 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Thugs are thugs no matter what the color. 

True, but the word is definitely more associated with one race than the other in indirect reference.

9 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I rarely, rarely go to the mall anymore though, especially on weekends, so I have no idea what the scene is like there (or at Rivertown). 

I go to Woodland at least once a month, and I've yet to see any violence. I haven't even seen any at Kentwood Station (the sawtooth bus platform at Woodland), which I visit at least weekly to exchange buses. Honestly, the worst that's happened to me was some old pervert not leaving me alone at the bus station, but even he was just being creepy, not violent. I don't disbelieve it used to be bad, but it just isn't anymore, and holding on to these negative associations from the past isn't helpful for objectively considering its progress.

[joeDowntown]

To me that statement is as short-sighted as people who think downtown is a dangerous place.

I’m not a big mall shopper, but when I do go, I don’t sense danger all around [eyeroll]. 

Joe

[organsnyder]

edit: The comment I was referencing has been removed (thank you, mods).

Edited September 6, 2018 by organsnyder

[joeDowntown]

The post has been taken down and he/she has been given a warning by the site owner. 

@wingbert - Become a useful member of the community (like you had been for years) or leave. It's up to you.

Joe

[Guest]

Yes, thank you mods.  I rarely go to Woodland anymore either and if I do it's a weekday morning or afternoon so it's pretty chill.  I have witnessed and heard of fights there but that was also a long time ago.  My theory is that back then there were a ton of smaller gangs mainly in SE GR where I used to live.  There used to be at least 20 sets in a pretty small area and when they see each other it's usually on no matter what.

Like people have said it's a matter of perception.   These weren't incidents where random people were being attacked.

[GRLaker]

At one time, malls were the hangout place for youth. Today, malls are seen by youth as being archaic places that their parents frequented. They don't hold the same coolness factor that they had in the 90s and early 00s. I'm sure that has resulted in a large decrease in the violence that we grew accustomed to. I don't feel unsafe at Woodland short of fearing the insane traffic at that intersection. 

[joeDowntown]

In other, not so toxic suburban news, Hopcat - Knapp's Corner opens Saturday. This photo from their Facebook page is pretty awesome (Rapid Growth has a bunch of photos of the interior if anyone is interested).

 

[Sparty97]

8 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

In other, not so toxic suburban news, Hopcat - Knapp's Corner opens Saturday. This photo from their Facebook page is pretty awesome (Rapid Growth has a bunch of photos of the interior if anyone is interested).

 

 

 

I saw that there were people out on the patio last night.  I think it was Friends and Family night last night and then some sort of VIP thing tonight.  They will open to the public at 11 AM Saturday morning (I think Free Crack Fries all day...)

[GRDadof3]

5 minutes ago, Sparty97 said:

I saw that there were people out on the patio last night.  I think it was Friends and Family night last night and then some sort of VIP thing tonight.  They will open to the public at 11 AM Saturday morning (I think Free Crack Fries all day...)

I thought it was free crack fries for a year too? For the first 100 people?  Maybe I dreamt that.