East Beltline Developments

[mpchicago]

I visited the Village of Rochester Hills this past week. It was ok, but the feeling I got is that it

Edited July 10, 2006 by mpchicago

[GaryP]

Two new stores in Spartan's future

Two new grocery stores owned by Spartan Stores Inc. are expected to anchor major developments being planned along East Beltline Avenue NE and Northland Drive.

Spartan announced today it has a signed letter of intent to build a 48,000-square-foot D&W Fresh Market at the proposed Village of Orchard Hills lifestyle center in Grand Rapids Township.

[mpchicago]

Two new stores in Spartan's future

Two new grocery stores owned by Spartan Stores Inc. are expected to anchor major developments being planned along East Beltline Avenue NE and Northland Drive.

Spartan announced today it has a signed letter of intent to build a 48,000-square-foot D&W Fresh Market at the proposed Village of Orchard Hills lifestyle center in Grand Rapids Township.

So Spartan will have three stores along the Beltline/Northland all with in 7 miles of each other, at Three Mile, Seven Mile and 10 Mile. Does it seem like overkill? I know that D&W had planned a store at Three Mile & the Beltline corner for years; did they sell this property to the developer with the understanding that they would be an anchor? I

[mpchicago]

The Press is reporting that on Tuesday the Grand Rapids Township board gave its approval for construction to begin on this development. The board stipulates the project must be finished in four and a half years.

[PBJ]

The board stipulates the project must be finished in four and a half years.

Or what?.. Is there a Monetary fine for running long? Or do they bring in the bulldozers and plow it all under and say "Try Again"

[GRDadof3]

Since the Detroit area developers of this project were looking to bring a Parisian Department store to this area, I wonder if that now means we'll get our first Belk's? Anyone familiar with this Charlotte-based retailer, and what it could be compared to?

[Nitro]

Anyone familiar with this Charlotte-based retailer, and what it could be compared to?

We had them in Georgia. I didn't exactly spend a lot of time in one but it didn't strike me as any different then your normal Hudsons, Marshall Field, Saks, type mall anchor.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Nitro

[FilmMaker]

The biggest thing is the apparent inequity of the whole process. There was absolute scrutiny of the Garden Park Project with numerous workshops, studies and extensive due dilligence by the developer. Every single detail was worked out from the most minute to the biggest. The architecture is all designed. The plan is complete. The engineering is complete. The number and size of all parking spaces is defined. Every last inch of park space is calculated. All I's are dotted and T's crossed.

The shear fact that it does not seem to have gone through the same process is assinine. Expecially considering its size, the amount of traffic it may generate (again no traffic study) and the future development that it may generate along the Beltline.

It also is questionable whether or not it meets the intent of the overlay district that was an agreed upon document by the people of the city, the people of the township, city planning, township planning and the various commissions.

As an aside, there is still another lifestyle center moving ahead on the corner of Knapp and Beltline across from Celebration Village. This one, however, is in the city of Grand Rapids.

Nothing is more obvious than the fact that these competing interests along East Belt Line are scrambling to be the first to break ground. He who digs first will clearly have a huge advantage over he who doesn't. And these folks are absolutely banking on inconsistent decisions to get what they want. There indeed is very little consistency to the behavior of both the City and Gr Township on these as well as past proposals along East Belt Line. One needs look no further than what already exists, what is proposed and how proposals are being reviewed to see this.

The patchwork quilt of governance among these parcels - and others as you travel north on EBL is exactly why overlay districts are necessary to prevent rogue development within an area governed by mulitple units og government.

It should be mentioned here that the State of Michigan in recent years has placed an ever increasing importance on cooperative planning. Overlay districts have been initiated to prevent exactly what is happening on East Belt Line. The State has identified this problem and is working to do something about it. I personally fear that until lawsuits are filed, many local municipalities will continue to disregard the greater scope of their actions.

This whole process started when Meijer's presented and executed a plan that for the most part respected the overlay zone guidelines and (in my opinion) has been executed in a mostly acceptable manner. Then, after a spectacular example of annexation gone bad, the City fell hook line and sinker for the "village concept" across the street and approved it in total defiance of the overlay agreements with neighboring municpalities. This atrocious eyesore has become the laughing stock of every planning professional in the Midwest.

Now we have GR Township competing with the City to see who can get their hands on the next "phase" of East Belt Line's future. What really stinks about all the current proposals on the table is the blatant disregard for the overlay guidelines agreed to by both these units of government! As a planning commissioner for the other township signed on to that overlay agreement, I am thoroughly disgusted by this behavior. It also might interest many here to know that there are people serving as GR Township officials who have ownership or financial ties to other parcels being pondered for development along this strip of East Belt Line.

And the mother of all looming threats has yet to be mentioned - namely that of Wal-Mart being rumored to be interested in the orchards at EBL and Four Mile - which happens to be owned by a family with strong/direct ties to GR Township leadership. Four Mile is the border between GR and Plainfield Townships and both have signed the overlay zone agreements. Plainfield Township's current zoning in that area is in no way compatible with a Wal-Mart. Again, GR Township's recent blatant disregard for the overlay zone is reason for great anxiety if appropriate, cooperative development is to take place along the greater scope of East Belt Line.

Alas, elsewhere in this thread, the announcements by Spartan Stores are merely another part of the bigger story along East Belt Line. At this point in time, I can assure you that Spartan will not find it easy to gain approval of a complex at 7 Mile and Northland Drive, especially if it results in them abandoning existing facilities a mere half mile south. The fact that they have been engaged in a decades long antagonistic relationship with their landlord at this existing store does not, in my mind, justify their request for such a significant zoning change at 7 Mile. The battle extends waaaay beyond 3 Mile!

All the while, thanks to the inconsistent and easily influenced interests of the people leading GR Township and the City, these developers and their clients continue to disregard existing opportunities in appropriately zoned areas like Northland Plaza and Plainfield Avenue where the recent establishment of a multi-municipality CIA is poised to bring it back to prominence as a vital commercial thoroughfare in this area.

Indeed, I get very tired of having to deal with the bi-products of the bad planning and development decisions made by others. If not kept in check, we would see strip malls (I don't care what you call them) and parking lots at every single intersection along East Belt Line from Fulton all the way to Cedar Springs!

I can only hope that the public is starting to be equally disgusted by this prospect. The public needs to step up and aggressively protest these flawed proposals and near-sighted decisions. Without voluminous public outcry, it takes a great deal of courage to make planning decisions based on their greater impact on the world around us.

To be sure, the ongoing inconsistencies and blatant disrespect for agreed-upon cooperative planning along East Belt Line reflects the absolute absence of courage or vision on the part of GR Township or the City.

[GRDadof3]

Indeed, I get very tired of having to deal with the bi-products of the bad planning and development decisions made by others. If not kept in check, we would see strip malls (I don't care what you call them) and parking lots at every single intersection along East Belt Line from Fulton all the way to Cedar Springs!

I can only hope that the public is starting to be equally disgusted by this prospect. The public needs to step up and aggressively protest these flawed proposals and near-sighted decisions. Without voluminous public outcry, it takes a great deal of courage to make planning decisions based on their greater impact on the world around us.

To be sure, the ongoing inconsistencies and blatant disrespect for agreed-upon cooperative planning along East Belt Line reflects the absolute absence of courage or vision on the part of GR Township or the City.

But wasn't the area at 3 Mile and Beltline zoned for exactly that, strip malls? Or I think it was "small commercial" uses? Wouldn't it be preferable to have one development, under one ownership, with fewer curb cuts, that would be finished all at once, as opposed to little Subways, check-cashing services and Dollar Generals as far as the eye can see like what has been the mainstay of Plainfield, Division and much of 28th Street? And does the approval of this development automatically doom Robinette's land to a mega box retail store, especially if it doesn't fit the current zoning? I can see how the township could want something like the village, and take all the hardship and work to make it work, but I don't see them putting any energy into a WalMart.

[FilmMaker]

But wasn't the area at 3 Mile and Beltline zoned for exactly that, strip malls? Or I think it was "small commercial" uses? Wouldn't it be preferable to have one development, under one ownership, with fewer curb cuts, that would be finished all at once, as opposed to little Subways, check-cashing services and Dollar Generals as far as the eye can see like what has been the mainstay of Plainfield, Division and much of 28th Street? And does the approval of this development automatically doom Robinette's land to a mega box retail store, especially if it doesn't fit the current zoning? I can see how the township could want something like the village, and take all the hardship and work to make it work, but I don't see them putting any energy into a WalMart.

Quite often the underlying zones merely imply the notion of "mixed use". The overlay district makes broader statements about the global intent for the area. In very broad terms, the overlay spirit was to keep commercial development under control and to encourage more transitional uses such as office and convenience services.

I agree that a larger project allows for more control of what might go in at the beginning, but in the long haul the result is rarely ideal - as witnessed by Celebration Village. Heck, even North Kent Mall looked good for a while - and I can tell you what a struggle it has been to encourage redevelopment of that site.

Alas, you give GR Township far more credit than they deserve. Very little of what they have done over the past few decades could be interpreted as visionary. Yes, development at 3 Mile does, indeed put pressure on 4 Mile because it gets much harder to defend a lawsuit in court when nearby parcels have been similarly developed. In any development review, one of the first questions asked is whether the proposal is consistent with adjacent uses.

And they are, in fact, putting effort into courting Wal-Mart because they've had representatives at several of Plainfield's Master Plan review meetings, including Robinette family members who not only own the parcels but also have direct ties to GR Township Planning efforts.

My point is that the final line of defense is sliding northward and I do not relish the idea of simply being the next Township buried by this slow-moving mudslide. We're trying desparately to preserve incredibly successful destination locations like downtown Rockford and to contain highway intersection commercial spots like 131/10 Mile (even though neither of these areas fall entirely or at all under our jurisdiction). It's simply what you do when you sign on to a cooperative overlay zoning agreement - and when you work towards a broader vision of ideal outcomes.

Again, this is why I commented on the potential presented by redevelopment of the Plainfield corridor. For decades, Plainfield has represented the northeast commercial quadrant of the metro area. When the Coit Ave gravel pits finally become residential housing (arguably the largest contiguous chunk of open land near the city core), Plainfield Ave is going to be exactly where you want to be commercially. I'd rather see some of this commercial in the existing Plainfield corridor than create yet another whole additional corridor on the Belt Line. In a couple decades when the population starts to shrink, what are the odds of both corridors surviving in any sort of desirable form?

Of course, I've now raised the rarely mentioned fact that the US population is going to shrink. A fact that very few developers are interested in discussing because their visions rarely stretch beyond 5-10 years. Planners have to look at a much more distant horizon.

[GRDadof3]

For those looking for an update on this, Atwell Hicks survey crew out in force today as I drove by. Looks like they were staking along 3 Mile.

[GRDadof3]

Got a look at the site plan today. Some of you may gnash your teeth when you hear this, but it sounds like there is a cadre of retailers coming to this that we don't have in the metro yet. This is the village on the OTHER corner on the Beltline (3 Mile/Beltline).

H&M (hennes & mauritz) of the UK

Brooks Brothers

Sephora

Biaggi's

Red Star Tavern

Strausburg Children

BCBG

Z Gallerie

White House Black Market

PF Chang

And the usual suspects:

Eddie Bauer

Banana Republic

Coach

Chico's

Talbot's

Hollister's

Coldwater Creek

JosABanks

Williams Sonoma

Bath & Body Works

Barnes & Noble

Anthropologie

Jared Jewelers

J Crew

Aeropostale

Charlotte Russe

Children's Place

The Buckle

Trac N Trail

Victoria's Secret

GAP

Ann Taylor Loft

American Eagle

Comparing the two, it appears to be even more upscale than the Village of Rochester Hills in metro D.

And two anchors as yet to be announced, but one is rumored to be the new D&W Fresh Market model. The other was rumored to be a Parisian, but they were bought out by Belk so I don't know where that stands. Great, a bunch more stores I can't afford to shop at. Oh, and I didn't see the RAPID stop on the site plan yet, but there were bike racks and a park labelled.

They've now staked along the Beltline, 3 Mile and Dunnigan on the East side of the site.

Now play nice.

[wolverine]

What! all this and no Cheesecake factory? booooo!

[joeDowntown]

I bet we'll see a Nordstroms in this area soon. Upscale, doing well, has a legion of customers from GR who drive to other locations. They are building a new Nordstroms in Novi. Nordstroms also builds in lifestyle centers, not just mall locations.

[blueradon]

While I'm all for this lifestyle center and I like the fact that there's a lot of more upscale stores coming to GR (long overdue if you ask me)...at the same time I think the location is a little weird. Why would you place an "outdoor mall" about 10-15 minutes away from 2 malls that carry the same stores? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense.

In my case, living in Greenville, I love it because it'll be closer for me to get to one of these stores...but I drive all over GR anyway so I don't think it'd be much of a difference. So all in all I have a 50/50 response to this...but I'm leaning towards the "it's pretty cool" side of things. I also think this would have been more suitable by knapp's corner IMO. Then again, traffic congestion would absolutely suck.

Edit: Ok now that I have looked at the store list more thoroughly...there's more stores on here than I thought that aren't in woodland or centerpointe...but still some of the generics are there...that'll have to hurt the two malls some when it gets built.

Edited December 22, 2006 by blueradon

[GRDadof3]

While I'm all for this lifestyle center and I like the fact that there's a lot of more upscale stores coming to GR (long overdue if you ask me)...at the same time I think the location is a little weird. Why would you place an "outdoor mall" about 10-15 minutes away from 2 malls that carry the same stores? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense.

In my case, living in Greenville, I love it because it'll be closer for me to get to one of these stores...but I drive all over GR anyway so I don't think it'd be much of a difference. So all in all I have a 50/50 response to this...but I'm leaning towards the "it's pretty cool" side of things. I also think this would have been more suitable by knapp's corner IMO. Then again, traffic congestion would absolutely suck.

Edit: Ok now that I have looked at the store list more thoroughly...there's more stores on here than I thought that aren't in woodland or centerpointe...but still some of the generics are there...that'll have to hurt the two malls some when it gets built.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Woodland. They may have to reinvent themselves...again. I also wondered lately if the new outdoor plaza, theater and restaurant setup at the Southern end of Woodland was a precursor to what may lie ahead. As in, are they planning to someday tear down the interior mall and create another "village" layout to compete.

I think Orchard Hills is looking to tap into the Rockford, Ada, Northview, Forest Hills area, evidenced by what they are showing as their primary trade zone.. I know a few people in those areas find the current retail offerings to be pretty poor at both Rivertown and Woodland, and go to Detroit or Chicago to shop, or shop online. It might keep more money in this area.

[civitas]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Woodland. They may have to reinvent themselves...again. I also wondered lately if the new outdoor plaza, theater and restaurant setup at the Southern end of Woodland was a precursor to what may lie ahead. As in, are they planning to someday tear down the interior mall and create another "village" layout to compete.

Fountain Walk in Novi is only 5 years old and they are preparing to tear down 50% of it (350,000 SF) and start over. Ouch! Talk about having to reinvent yourtself.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../612210432/1001

[twoshort]

While I'm all for this lifestyle center and I like the fact that there's a lot of more upscale stores coming to GR (long overdue if you ask me)...at the same time I think the location is a little weird. Why would you place an "outdoor mall" about 10-15 minutes away from 2 malls that carry the same stores? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense.

They will move to the lifestyle center. I had heard over a year ago that at least one of those stores on the list was looking to move.

[mpchicago]

I think that Anthropologie is new to GR, if I'm not mistaken. Also, See Optical is on that list of new stores.

I hope they are smart and do a snow melt.

Edited December 22, 2006 by mpchicago

[GRDadof3]

I think that Anthropologie is new to GR, if I'm not mistaken. Also, See Optical is on that list of new stores.

I hope they are smart and do a snow melt.

Oh, you're right mp. I was thinking Rivertown had an Anthropologie in the "kiddie" wing of the mall (Sears end). And as someone cordially reminded me, there is no confirmation that these are confirmed leases.

[DwntwnGeo]

I hope they are smart and do a snow melt.

Maybe they will snow melt the sea of parking too. We wouldn't want anybody to experience winter in Michigan and get their Italian shoes wets.

I would have rather seen some of these shops downtown, but I forgot we have a aweful parking problem and not enough people that spend money I guess.

[aheights15]

Didn't Sephora used to be in Woodland? They must be ready for another shot at GR...

[GRDadof3]

Maybe they will snow melt the sea of parking too. We wouldn't want anybody to experience winter in Michigan and get their Italian shoes wets.

I would have rather seen some of these shops downtown, but I forgot we have a awful parking problem and not enough people that spend money I guess.

Nicely played Geo! If they do indeed get a Nordstrom in this area, it will essentially be on par with Woodland (since much of Woodland's square footage is in its two story anchors).

[grcitydog]

I can't explain how sad I am that these stores are coming to the region and are not going to be downtown. Not that I really expected anything different, but imagine if they DID locate locate downtown; what a different city we would have.

[jstalin]

H&M! Woohoo!