Norfolk Development 2

[urbanlife]

There is only like two very small lots and they are used for parking. But I'm sure they could fit something there.

I would say more like 5 lots between Freemason and Charlotte (unless there has been some new buildings there that I dont know about), which the small lot near Charlotte on the west side of the street could be attached to that section of the block that could use a major redevelopment.

Though I will say the city has come a long way from just being a downtown that consisted of Waterside, Main, and Granby...I remember a time when Norfolk was a dead and sad place to visit...unless you really loved crack and hookers of course...then it was a typical Disneyland.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/norfolk-ok...-eminent-domain

If their case had been successful, it would have made it more difficult

[lil-bear]

2020 plan

If you look on page 2, you will see what the plan could be. Looks like they are going to tear down the ugly wings from the hotel and build buildings around the parking.

NPH website

If you look on the Hotel's site, they are closing the pool July 31 for exterior work.

Does this mean something will be starting soon?

[varider]

I must be blind, I don't see NPH on the poster?

[lil-bear]

The triangle of land right above the Scope on the map on the 2nd page is the NPH property.

[varider]

Oh I see, it has existing commercial, which would be the current hotel, and then proposed commercial... Hmm.

[mistermetaj]

Oh I see, it has existing commercial, which would be the current hotel, and then proposed commercial... Hmm.

It also looks like they are planning a large development on the Hague parking lots as well. 2020 will be a great time for DT Norfolk, at least in these renderings.

[urbanfan]

First things first, the 2020 plan is nothing more than a guideline for future construction. It is not a step by step plan of construction for downtown Norfolk. Secondly, DN does not own the hotel property so therefore it cannot redevelop the property the way it wants. Now if you have an article that says that the wings are being removed and designed as you say then fine but if not there is no such article or comment from the hotel owner then there does not need to be a thread for a project that does not exist.

[varider]

the NHRA can pretty much acquire any piece of land they want these days. I'd say that there is a 95% chance that this plan gets built out accordingly, unless something catastrophic happens of course. all of these things are "proposed," the 2020 plan isn't just some paper that says what the city would like to happen.. it has a little more backbone then that.

[stillill]

It also looks like they are planning a large development on the Hague parking lots as well. 2020 will be a great time for DT Norfolk, at least in these renderings.

That would be the Chrysler museum expansion.

[varider]

That would be the Chrysler museum expansion.

It says "proposed commercial" and "parking deck" not "proposed institutional" or whatever else. So Im guessing they will replace the hague surface lot with a parking garage and build something new.

Edited July 27, 2009 by varider

[urbanlife]

okay, side issue with the 2020 plan...the Corridors inside the mall do not count as park/open space...seriously.

Anyway, good to see something is being done with this hotel...I have always been confused why the whole building was never razed and the whole area north of the Scope was redone...that would seem to make more sense than trying to deal with a poorly designed hotel that shouldnt of been built like that in the first place.

[urbanfan]

the NHRA can pretty much acquire any piece of land they want these days. I'd say that there is a 95% chance that this plan gets built out accordingly, unless something catastrophic happens of course. all of these things are "proposed," the 2020 plan isn't just some paper that says what the city would like to happen.. it has a little more backbone then that.

The NHRA cannot acquire any land they want. First of all for them to take any land it would have to go through condemnation process in which they will have to offer fair market value for the property they are taking. Secondly, to even get this far they have to prove that the land grab is beneficial to the public which would be hard for them to do on this property considering they would rip down a building which provides meeting spaces and a pool for a hotel. Can't see eminent domain working in this situation considering all that would go right back their would be office buildings or some retail. Hardly any improvement in my opinion. Personally, the city should buy the hotel and level it and build something iconic as a gateway into downtown. But, the 2020 plan is nothing more than a guideline. If it actually had teeth we would have a large NBA sized arena sitting on the WF lot instead of the office tower going up. That didn't happen now did it. It is nothing more than a guideline the government requires every city to do to show that they have some idea of future development and progress. These things are pretty much worthless.

[lil-bear]

I wish I had pics to show that the wings look abandoned and seem to be preped for demo.

Also, there is heavy equipment on the property!

Is there anyone who can get pics?

[Ghentite]

the NHRA can pretty much acquire any piece of land they want these days. I'd say that there is a 95% chance that this plan gets built out accordingly, unless something catastrophic happens of course. all of these things are "proposed," the 2020 plan isn't just some paper that says what the city would like to happen.. it has a little more backbone then that.

While it's great the city has a vision and one that looks pretty good, I take the 2020 plan with a grain of salt, especially since Granby Tower is on there. Additionally, there is no St. Pauls Quad. How can they plan all of these other sites (never talked about), when St. Paul's (which IS actually being looked into) isn't even on there? Just sort of lacks credibility to me.

[varider]

Yeah, I saw Norfolk Plaza Hotel today, the wings were empty, there was a small crane and a sign up for some construction company..

[varider]

But, the 2020 plan is nothing more than a guideline. If it actually had teeth we would have a large NBA sized arena sitting on the WF lot instead of the office tower going up. That didn't happen now did it. It is nothing more than a guideline the government requires every city to do to show that they have some idea of future development and progress. These things are pretty much worthless.

Boy, I wish we had an NBA arena. What do you guys think of putting that in either Fort Norfolk or Cedar Grove Transfer station? It's good to dream I guess..One day NBA or MLB will come.. Just how long will it take.

[ronsmytheiii]

Boy, I wish we had an NBA arena. What do you guys think of putting that in either Fort Norfolk or Cedar Grove Transfer station? It's good to dream I guess..One day NBA or MLB will come.. Just how long will it take.

Virginia Beach is claiming that in development in the Pembroke implementation, I think Downtown Norfolk and Pembroke should try to supplement each other rather than compete.

[varider]

Yea, I know Va Beach is claiming it, but since Norfolk is more of a city, and has more big city amentities than Pembroke, I think Norfolk has the better chance. Plus Fraim has said previously he's made it his goal to bring the NBA to Norfolk..

[Sky06]

How can they plan all of these other sites (never talked about), when St. Paul's (which IS actually being looked into) isn't even on there? Just sort of lacks credibility to me.

Because most of the other projects are small compared to St. Paul's.

[urbanlife]

Boy, I wish we had an NBA arena. What do you guys think of putting that in either Fort Norfolk or Cedar Grove Transfer station? It's good to dream I guess..One day NBA or MLB will come.. Just how long will it take.

NBA, NHL, or MLS are about the only pro teams that you will ever see in the Hampton Roads metro...and I wouldnt rule out VaBeach when it comes to getting a pro team. Norfolk may be the historical city center to the area, but that doesnt matter when it comes to financial backers...VaBeach has just a good of chance at getting a pro team than Norfolk does.

[lil-bear]

Why don't they build a new arena right on the city line so Norfolk & VB can split the revenue 50/50.

Just place it on the LR line and a new district could be developed right where Princess Anne Rd meets Newtown Rd.

[varider]

Ha I don't think that's ever been done? Is that even possible lol. I'd rather it be near a CBD.. The only time a city can pull off an arena outside of the CBD is if it's surrounded by 3 or 4 other ones like Philly's sports complex.. Just make the whole metro pay for it!

Edited July 30, 2009 by varider

[virginia pe]

Yea, I know Va Beach is claiming it, but since Norfolk is more of a city, and has more big city amentities than Pembroke, I think Norfolk has the better chance. Plus Fraim has said previously he's made it his goal to bring the NBA to Norfolk..

Norfolk officially gave up on getting an NBA team a few years ago. Norfolk tried to get the Charlotte Hornets, but the Hornets ended up moving to New Orleans. From that effort, Norfolk learned that it was nearly impossible to land a team without an arena already in place and ready for play. (No, Scope doesn't cut it, even as an interim venue.) And Norfolk is too conservative to build an arena and then hope to land a tenant. The land that Norfolk had identified for the Hornets' arena was the old Monticello Parking Garage and the adjacent surface lot. When S.L. Nusbaum came calling with a proposal to build Wachovia Center (now Wells Fargo Center), Norfolk officially gave up on plans to lure an NBA team or to build a new arena and decided that Wachovia Center was a much better use of their land, tax dollars, and efforts. In my opinion, they made the right choice.

[brikkman]

Norfolk officially gave up on getting an NBA team a few years ago. Norfolk tried to get the Charlotte Hornets, but the Hornets ended up moving to New Orleans. From that effort, Norfolk learned that it was nearly impossible to land a team without an arena already in place and ready for play. (No, Scope doesn't cut it, even as an interim venue.) And Norfolk is too conservative to build an arena and then hope to land a tenant. The land that Norfolk had identified for the Hornets' arena was the old Monticello Parking Garage and the adjacent surface lot. When S.L. Nusbaum came calling with a proposal to build Wachovia Center (now Wells Fargo Center), Norfolk officially gave up on plans to lure an NBA team or to build a new arena and decided that Wachovia Center was a much better use of their land, tax dollars, and efforts. In my opinion, they made the right choice.

Maybe somewhere in this, they should have partnered with smithfield foods and just build an arena. Scope is dead, that's what I do not understand. That venue should be paid up by now correct? It almost seems as though no one wants to do business with the scope unless its one of the small sales under the arena. Are they charging too much or something? They could have winter festivals there, that would attract a lot of people in the winter months when people do not care to come out as much because of the weather. It is definitely better than just letting it sit. I'll say it again, its a shame that the constant is the main venue in Norfolk.....