Norfolk Development 2

[VAGATOR]

Norfolk's current courthouses are real ghetto, its shocking there hasn't been more violence down there. These proposals sound very promising.

Edited June 26, 2006 by VAGATOR

[vtfan18]

There is definitely the potential to make better use of the land. I just hope they realize the need to build up and not out. Hopefully they don't get any crazy ideas to relocate in the st pauls quadrant. As much land as possible needs to be saved for private use. The city jail needs a makeover too.

[mikeas]

There is a huge piece of land on the corner of St. Paul and City Hall. Its just a parking lot right now... What should go there?

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&amp...p;scene=3684909

This local.live.com thing is awesome by the way.

[vdogg]

There is a huge piece of land on the corner of St. Paul and City Hall. Its just a parking lot right now... What should go there?

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&amp...p;scene=3684909

This local.live.com thing is awesome by the way.

Hopefully a 35-40 story tower.

[Seven Cities]

Hopefully a 35-40 story tower.

Haven't heard that about that one on a while. Let's just hope that something wothwhile (ie: tall, visually stunning, contributes to the sustainment of downtown) gets placed on the Snyder Lot...and soon. I'm thinking its a perfect place for an iconic Norfolk tower.

[ace707]

Part of what makes the courthouse project attractive to private groups is the potential for private development. The circuit courthouse would be demolished, leaving several acres of prime property with a sweeping view of the Norfolk harbor.

Sound familiar? I mentioned this proposal way back in one of these threads! Was I the only one who was listening to Fraim long time ago?

Additionally, this quote only confirms the "hidden secret" to downtown development... it's that everyone is still hungry to develop in downtown, despite having "dozens of proposals rejected" especially when it came to Downtown Plaza, it shows the development community won't stop at the opportunity while downtown remains hot, even if the city wants to keep development under control.

This revelation will only add fuel to the fire in the already high demand for development in downtown.

[Jim Nasty]

Has anyone been on the 200 block of Granby Street recently? Across from Harry's BBQ, and next to the boutique hotel there is a smaller building that has a pending license from the Virginia ABC posted in the window. Does this mean a possible new restuarant/bar opening in this location?

Closings for those that don't know:

Jack Quinn's is closed and for sale

Sterling's is either closed or remodeling (I walked by there tonite and it was more like a warehouse than a steakhouse)

Harry's BBQ is closing soon (this is rumor).

Station 2 closed

Granby St = Losing Momentum?

[vdogg]

Closings for those that don't know:

Jack Quinn's is closed and for sale

Sterling's is either closed or remodeling (I walked by there tonite and it was more like a warehouse than a steakhouse)

Harry's BBQ is closing soon (this is rumor).

Station 2 closed

Granby St = Losing Momentum?

Hardly. Jack Quinns is closing due to poor management choices by its new owners. Station 2 was evicted due to noise complaints from the condo owners above. I have yet to hear the Harry's BBQ rumor but I was there last week and they didn't seem overly concerned. Could be true, just haven't heard it yet. Granby street has only picked up momentum, go there any Friday or Saturday night and you will see what I mean. Development interest has never been higher in that section of downtown.

edit: Missed the part about sterlings, I have no information on that one either.

[vdogg]

^^^In reference to sterlings

At the other end of the spectrum

[vtfan18]

Closings for those that don't know:

Jack Quinn's is closed and for sale

Sterling's is either closed or remodeling (I walked by there tonite and it was more like a warehouse than a steakhouse)

Harry's BBQ is closing soon (this is rumor).

Station 2 closed

Granby St = Losing Momentum?

I'm not so sure Granby is losing momentum. Like Vdogg said, the weekends are packed and foot traffic has never been busier. Day time traffic is going to pick up soon too with the addition of the 1000+ jobs from Trader along with all the new downtown housing. 100+ new residents will soon call downtown home once 388 Boush is complete in about a month. The next "large" influx of residents will come when harbor heights is complete. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes which may cause a tenant not to renew their lease. Or the landlord may have chosen not to extend the lease. Even with great foot traffic and attention, still goes to show that a poorly run business will go under no matter what.

ps- I never really did like Jack Quinn's!

[Jim Nasty]

I'm not so sure Granby is losing momentum. Like Vdogg said, the weekends are packed and foot traffic has never been busier. Day time traffic is going to pick up soon too with the addition of the 1000+ jobs from Trader along with all the new downtown housing. 100+ new residents will soon call downtown home once 388 Boush is complete in about a month. The next "large" influx of residents will come when harbor heights is complete. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes which may cause a tenant not to renew their lease. Or the landlord may have chosen not to extend the lease. Even with great foot traffic and attention, still goes to show that a poorly run business will go under no matter what.

ps- I never really did like Jack Quinn's!

Thanks for the info guys!

I live above what used to be Jack Quinns, and noone wants to see downtown boom like me! It just seems that it is dead out here most of the week (and Sunday most places don't open), but yes, Friday and Saturday its hoppin'.

With the new residences opening up, and Trader, I'm sure the area will pick up.

BTW I heard that Harry's rent was gonna go way up, but again, this is nothing but sheer rumor, from a source I have a passing acquaintance with.

[Former Resident of HR]

Well Harry's is pretty well known so if they leave DT I am sure customers will follow. It will be DT's loss, not Harry's.

I know what everyone says about it being dead downtown. A lot of times when I am down there, it feels like a ghost town. However, it is eons from what it was in the 90's before Mac opened that is for sure.

BTW here is another rumor (or maybe it's already known). A friend of a friend tells me that the Waterside Sheraton has been sold and that his friend who works there is moving now. I have not been on the forums and so this is probably old news (sorry). But what are the plans now, keep it as is?

Edited June 27, 2006 by JPN0731

[vtfan18]

Thanks for the info guys!

I live above what used to be Jack Quinns, and noone wants to see downtown boom like me! It just seems that it is dead out here most of the week (and Sunday most places don't open), but yes, Friday and Saturday its hoppin'.

With the new residences opening up, and Trader, I'm sure the area will pick up.

BTW I heard that Harry's rent was gonna go way up, but again, this is nothing but sheer rumor, from a source I have a passing acquaintance with.

Foot traffic is definitely up from what it used to be years ago but definitely not on par with other "major" cities. Norfolk is still a few years away from having a true dowtown presence. More residences will add to the mix but the only way to really increase day time foot traffic is to bring in more business. Trader is a step in the right direction. I know its easier said than done but Norfolk should have tried to lure Dollar Tree into moving its corporate headquarters from Chesapeake to Norfolk. They also should have also tried to get American Funds to move downtown instead of building new offices in Chesapeake. Amerigroup would have been another great downtown candidate for a company's headquarters. They just built two new offices off I-64. They probably did make an attempt but I definitely would have given big tax incentives to lure them downtown.

[tuffsim]

From what I have heard, the hotel sale goes through this fall and the hotel is still scheduled for renovations beginning in november.

As a side note, I stayed in the Sheraton on harborfest weekend and I was dissapointed with the shape of the rooms. The rugs were stained and fraying at the seams, the ceilings had multiple patches, and every balcony door has been screwed shut.

Some of those upper floor balcony suites are listed at over $400 per night and they don't even get to use their balcony! I'd say some changes are in order at the Sheraton.

Well Harry's is pretty well known so if they leave DT I am sure customers will follow. It will be DT's loss, not Harry's.

I know what everyone says about it being dead downtown. A lot of times when I am down there, it feels like a ghost town. However, it is eons from what it was in the 90's before Mac opened that is for sure.

BTW here is another rumor (or maybe it's already known). A friend of a friend tells me that the Waterside Sheraton has been sold and that his friend who works there is moving now. I have not been on the forums and so this is probably old news (sorry). But what are the plans now, keep it as is?

[hoobo]

Foot traffic is definitely up from what it used to be years ago but definitely not on par with other "major" cities. Norfolk is still a few years away from having a true dowtown presence. More residences will add to the mix but the only way to really increase day time foot traffic is to bring in more business. Trader is a step in the right direction. I know its easier said than done but Norfolk should have tried to lure Dollar Tree into moving its corporate headquarters from Chesapeake to Norfolk. They also should have also tried to get American Funds to move downtown instead of building new offices in Chesapeake. Amerigroup would have been another great downtown candidate for a company's headquarters. They just built two new offices off I-64. They probably did make an attempt but I definitely would have given big tax incentives to lure them downtown.

That's the spirit: poach companies from neighboring cities. It would be wrong for any city in HR to rob Chesapeake of Dollar Tree, Smithfield of Smithfield, VB of Amerigroup, NN of Ferguson, or Norfolk of NS. Unless it's a consolidation like Trader bringing VB and Norfolk ops under one roof, then no local city should try to pick the prized fruit of another. Anyway, some companies like surburban, campus-style HQ's because they're cheaper than high-rises.

[vtfan18]

That's the spirit: poach companies from neighboring cities. It would be wrong for any city in HR to rob Chesapeake of Dollar Tree, Smithfield of Smithfield, VB of Amerigroup, NN of Ferguson, or Norfolk of NS. Unless it's a consolidation like Trader bringing VB and Norfolk ops under one roof, then no local city should try to pick the prized fruit of another. Anyway, some companies like surburban, campus-style HQ's because they're cheaper than high-rises.

I never mentioned poaching companies from other cities! My point was that in order to increase day time foot traffic downtown, Norfolk needs to increase its business base. Those companies would have been nice candidates. In fact, VB tried real hard to lure Trader away from Norfolk and that was common knowledge in the business world and mentioned in numerous articles! Even though Trader had operations in VB, the headquarters were still based in Norfolk. VB wanted them at Town Center.

[hoobo]

I never mentioned poaching companies from other cities! My point was that in order to increase day time foot traffic downtown, Norfolk needs to increase its business base. Those companies would have been nice candidates. In fact, VB tried real hard to lure Trader away from Norfolk and that was common knowledge in the business world and mentioned in numerous articles! Even though Trader had operations in VB, the headquarters were still based in Norfolk. VB wanted them at Town Center.

The post said that Norfolk should have tried giving incentives to lure Dollar Tree and American Funds away from Chesapeake and lure Amerigroup away from VB. How is that not poaching? As for Trader, Trader Publishing was based in Norfolk while Traderonline.com was based in VB. When Trader announced that they wanted to consolidate operations, the company was up for grabs. Either Traderonline.com was moving to Norfolk or Trader publishing was moving to VB. VB wasn't making an unsolicited bid to have the company move, but made a move to retain a company. Nothing wrong with that. However, Dollar Tree and Amerigroup moving to downtown because Norfolk approached them with unsolicited offers would be wrong.

Edited June 27, 2006 by hoobo

[VAGATOR]

Jack Quinn's sucked, that's why it closed. They didn't even had real Irish beer but had plenty of Bud Light.

[vaceltic]

Jack Quinn's sucked, that's why it closed. They didn't even had real Irish beer but had plenty of Bud Light.

No bloody Irish bevvies? Well that doesn't make me want to dance a jig...

Edited June 27, 2006 by vaceltic

[hoobo]

Jack Quinn's sucked, that's why it closed. They didn't even had real Irish beer but had plenty of Bud Light.

That's what the article said. It started as an authentic Irish pub, but then got bought out and turned into what basically was a low-end college bar.

[rusthebuss]

If I'm not mistaken, Dollar Tree originated in Norfolk. The guy went to Norview and started it in Norfolk Commerence park

[mikeas]

That's what the article said. It started as an authentic Irish pub, but then got bought out and turned into what basically was a low-end college bar.

I guess "Low-end" and price don't have anything to do with each other?

$7.00 for a shot of Jack... They thought they were the Ampitheater apparently.

[VAGATOR]

$7.00 for a shot of Jack... They thought they were the Ampitheater apparently.

No joke. Cover most nights, expensive booze and no good looking girls. Not a good mix.

[vdogg]

Cover most nights

Cover at a bar. Definately a no-no. Bar/club I can see it but just to go to the bar for a few drinks I refuse to go someplace that charges cover.

[hoobo]

If I'm not mistaken, Dollar Tree originated in Norfolk. The guy went to Norview and started it in Norfolk Commerence park

Started as K&K 5&10 which became K&K Toys back in 1953. In 1986, the K&K owners opened a new concept store, Dollar Tree, in Dalton, Ga. They eventually sold K&K Toys to KB Toys to focus on Dollar Tree. Dollar Tree was based in Norfolk Commerce Park until 1997 when they opened a new East Coast distribution center in Chesapeake. There wasn't any space in Norfolk for such a massive facility so they looked at various HR cities as well as cities outside the area. Since they ended up keeping the warehouse in HR and since Dollar Tree is a low margin business, they opted to move the HQ to the distribution center. That was a business decision just like Trader consolidating or Dominion Pictures moving was a business decision. What I have a problem with is a city soliciting a local company to move that isn't considering a move. Anyway, I tracked down the Dollar Tree moving article (Dollar Moves article link).