Norfolk Development 2

[willy]

The taxpayers aren't paying for me to be here at work.

I don't take home $30 million for chasing a ball around.

If more people looked to join me in the workforce instead of ball players, society would be a better place.

Instead, the US falls farther and farther behind other countries.

My employer has never gone to the city to say they needed a stadium.

It's why I don't subscribe to cable TV. I don't need to subsidize ESPN for the others, I don't need to subsidize Disney for the others.

The reason they get paid so much is that there is a market for it. If people stopped watching/going then there would not be a market for their salaries. The reason cities pay to for these stadiums for pro teams is because they see money at the end of the tunnel in some form or another. The reason your employer will never ask for a stadium is that your type of work does not require one. Let's just face it, you are a little jealous that someone that can play a sport and people pay to watch them makes more money than you. And the reason is that you feel that you contribute more to society than that guy "chasing" a ball.

[vaceltic]

It is also ironic to complain about considering Hampton Roads only other claim to fame besides the military and history is the number and quality of top athletes that come out of this area and into professional sports......

[Mobius57]

Baseball is more than chasing a ball around buddy! Its teh best of them all!

[mistermetaj]

The taxpayers aren't paying for me to be here at work.

I don't take home $30 million for chasing a ball around.

If more people looked to join me in the workforce instead of ball players, society would be a better place.

Instead, the US falls farther and farther behind other countries.

My employer has never gone to the city to say they needed a stadium.

It's why I don't subscribe to cable TV. I don't need to subsidize ESPN for the others, I don't need to subsidize Disney for the others.

The consumer pays for your to work, as do the fans, aka the "consumers" pay for baseball. No one does a job without demand for a service. Unfortunately, their service is more fun than most of ours will ever be. In the end, the team pays for the subsidized stadium over and over again.

Most minor league players make minimum of $60,000-80,000 ( I won't get into the majors for obvious reasons), so I'm sure they are contributing as consumers to society just as you are. Where their money comes from (as long as it's legal) makes no difference towards society as long as they spend spend spend (and save a little for retirement ).

The rest of the world pays for people to "kick a ball around" and pay larger salaries than the US does to their baseball players. The US "falling behind" has nothing to do with sports.

I don't know what you do, but does your employer need a stadium for it? Maybe he should ask for one then...

You don't like ESPN??????????

Why are you against anything that requires local government spending? Just playing devils advocate?

[urbanlife]

Also, keep in mind, most sports players have a short lifespan in the game...when you play for 10-14 years, then retire at the age of 35, you still have a long time to think about and how to stretch that money out for that....sure they make alot more money than most people do, but if you see an athlete 15 years after retirement, if they are not an announcer, they are probably living an upper middle class life....often times, what you see that bothers you the most is the 24 yr old that just single this massive contract and spending money like there is no tomorrow...which those are also the ones that learn the hard way that down the line, that money stops coming in.

Not wanting to pay for cable because it is a waste of money, sure I buy that, hell I barely have cable as it is and it is mostly for the internet. And if you want to talk about private industry within sports, I agree, the leagues should be paying for their own stadiums, the only thing cities should be helping with is working with them when it comes to loans that the teams must pay back and the land that the stadiums are on, which should be bought or leased by the teams from the cities.

Also, keep in mind, alot of those filler players that are good enough for the pro teams, but not the name brand players are all making minimum league pay or close to that, which is like having a great paying job that is only gonna last a short time.

[Glassoul]

The rest of the world pays for people to "kick a ball around" and pay larger salaries than the US does to their baseball players. The US "falling behind" has nothing to do with sports.

Actually, not true. Not even close, really. The highest paid soccer player is Christiano Ronaldo, who makes about $18.5 million per season with Real Madrid. Alex Rodriguez makes $33 million per season with the Yankees.

[Padman]

The obscenely inflated salaries of a few sports figures, entertainers and CEOs is theorized by micro-economists to be because there are no real substitutes for these people. You and I, regardless of our true ability or potential worth, just aren't perceived as being irreplaceable by the general public. It's an interesting aberration of free markets, a kind of merit-based lottery system.

[Telmnstr]

The obscenely inflated salaries of a few sports figures, entertainers and CEOs is theorized by micro-economists to be because there are no real substitutes for these people. You and I, regardless of our true ability or potential worth, just aren't perceived as being irreplaceable by the general public. It's an interesting aberration of free markets, a kind of merit-based lottery system.

I hear you, I just don't value their contributions to society as others do.

I picked up some automation hardware used in very high end homes and businesses, and have been working to implement it. I wanted to see if I could get it to command the network attached HDTV tuner, and also trigger the mac mini that I use as my "tv" to launch and play the video feed from the HDTV tuner. Then have buttons on the touchscreen for channels, just to add the functionality (Might add it so I can set a time to record a show as well.) During testing and setup of this, the setup wound up tuned to some horrible reality show. Even though it was playing in the background, I couldn't help but think of how many millions of people were sitting there doing nothing but watching that lame show. It hurt. Not to be elitest or cocky, but it's like come on people.

Automation project is coming along quite alright, if I can just find the other module I need to help with controlling the lights.

[brikkman]

I hear you, I just don't value their contributions to society as others do.

I picked up some automation hardware used in very high end homes and businesses, and have been working to implement it. I wanted to see if I could get it to command the network attached HDTV tuner, and also trigger the mac mini that I use as my "tv" to launch and play the video feed from the HDTV tuner. Then have buttons on the touchscreen for channels, just to add the functionality (Might add it so I can set a time to record a show as well.) During testing and setup of this, the setup wound up tuned to some horrible reality show. Even though it was playing in the background, I couldn't help but think of how many millions of people were sitting there doing nothing but watching that lame show. It hurt. Not to be elitest or cocky, but it's like come on people.

Automation project is coming along quite alright, if I can just find the other module I need to help with controlling the lights.

A testiment of a young childless adult, I LOVE IT, lol

Don't get me wrong, I love my life, but I probably would be doing crap like that if I were not married with a kid.

[Telmnstr]

:-)

There might be a possibility to recycle the setup effort if we get a hacker space.

Also, it's the same type of equipment that is used in museums. Same platform used at the mariners museum and such.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Telmnstr

[varider]

http://www.insidebiz.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?si...28AFB8A199D4F11

Coming soon

[brikkman]

http://www.insidebiz.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?si...28AFB8A199D4F11

This is great news. From Norfolk Plaza Hotel to Crowne Plaza.. Big jump

In considering they will not tear down that hotel, they should have built an extend wing (tower) to over look DT. That might have been a save considering its location. I always wanted to know the nature of its location anyways, what was the driving force. Maybe an old-timer can chime in on that notion (DOB '79).

[mikeas]

I was really hoping this place would get a decent franchise agreement. The Norfolk Plaza was sounding kind of tacky. I had heard from the Norfolk Admirals that they would be going with Crowne Plaza so I'm happy it worked out. Speaking of the Admirals, the schedule is out and I suggest you check out a game. If you thought the tides games were fun you will be amazed at how exciting live hockey is. I went to a game and ended up with season tickets.

[varider]

I was really hoping this place would get a decent franchise agreement. The Norfolk Plaza was sounding kind of tacky. I had heard from the Norfolk Admirals that they would be going with Crowne Plaza so I'm happy it worked out. Speaking of the Admirals, the schedule is out and I suggest you check out a game. If you thought the tides games were fun you will be amazed at how exciting live hockey is. I went to a game and ended up with season tickets.

I'm going to the first home game

The Admirals theme of the year is: The Heartbeat of Hampton Roads.

Edited August 15, 2009 by varider

[burt]

In considering they will not tear down that hotel, they should have built an extend wing (tower) to over look DT. That might have been a save considering its location. I always wanted to know the nature of its location anyways, what was the driving force. Maybe an old-timer can chime in on that notion (DOB '79).

Brikkman, I believe it was originally called The Golden Triangle Hotel and complimented Chrysler Hall and Scope. Many Richmonders (myself included) used to drive down when The Richmond Robins played the Norfolk AHL team at Scope back in the 1960's. The hotel had an excellent and classy restaurant on the second level with views of the arena and theatre.

[varider]

Makes sense. They put it there so people performing at Chrysler or playing at Scope would have somewhere closer to stay. Do you guys think it will help redevelop the area north of brambleton, having a Crowne Plaza there instead of Norfolk Plaza?

[vdogg]

Makes sense. They put it there so people performing at Chrysler or playing at Scope would have somewhere closer to stay. Do you guys think it will help redevelop the area north of brambleton, having a Crowne Plaza there instead of Norfolk Plaza?

Doubtful. It'll take a lot more than a name change to redevelop that area. There is an overall structural deficiency in the separation of that urban area from the rest of downtown. Brambleton might as well be class 6 rapids as far as most pedestrians are concerned. It'll take a Granby Tower level development with improvement to the overall street grid to even get developers looking in that direction again.

[varider]

Doubtful. It'll take a lot more than a name change to redevelop that area. There is an overall structural deficiency in the separation of that urban area from the rest of downtown. Brambleton might as well be class 6 rapids as far as most pedestrians are concerned. It'll take a Granby Tower level development with improvement to the overall street grid to even get developers looking in that direction again.

I think the main deterrent is the fast traffic flow of Brambleton and St. Paul's. I am hoping that St. Paul's Quadrant will fix that.

[mikeas]

I think the main deterrent is the fast traffic flow of Brambleton and St. Paul's. I am hoping that St. Paul's Quadrant will fix that.

I think the main deterrent is a couple thousand poor folks living off of the government in public housing.

[urbanlife]

Doubtful. It'll take a lot more than a name change to redevelop that area. There is an overall structural deficiency in the separation of that urban area from the rest of downtown. Brambleton might as well be class 6 rapids as far as most pedestrians are concerned. It'll take a Granby Tower level development with improvement to the overall street grid to even get developers looking in that direction again.

I disagree, Brambleton doesnt really matter...it looks like it does, but it doesnt. The reason why it looks like it does is because there is nothing north of Brambleton to go to other than the Museum...but if a multi block development were to happen, and lets say it was part of an urban plan to reconnect the area and give it some form of focus, the amount of traffic on Brambleton would be less of an issue and something that would be fairly easy for the city to overcome.

I know it must be annoying to always see me relate things to Portland, but this city has dealt with so many of these issues successfully already.

The Brewery Blocks is a 5 block project (6 if you count the greatest bookstore ever...I am serious about that) that was constructed in a dead rail industrial area...before this project, there was nothing north of Burnside...which is Portland's Brambleton. But this project managed to help recreate an area and gave it a focus which has now grown into the Pearl District (which did not really exist before this project).

Of course with the Pearl District, the city had little to worry about because there was literally nothing there, in Norfolk's case, they would still have some issue with the low income housing and the current land owners in that area, which is easy to say is the real blame on why there has been little development north of Brambleton. It would be smart for the city to try and take control of all of the property that sits between Brambleton and Olney, and Granby and Moticello, and turned that into a redevelopment much like the Brewery Blocks....Then took Brambleton to the concert hall (which why does the city need this concert hall and the Chrysler Hall??), and from St Paul Blvd to Yarmouth St, and gave that a district name as well as a tax program to keep its tax dollars it generates within the district while it grows, the city would be onto something.

This isnt hard for the city to do, but it needs to have something formal in place that is actively doing things like this throughout the city. That area already has an urban template to work with, all it needs is the right vision to make it happen.

[varider]

Well in cities with larger downtowns than Norfolk, they have roads 8-10 lanes wide and it doesn't deter people from crossing, BECAUSE THEY HAVE WELL PLANNED CROSSWALKS! I think development should start in SPQ before it expands northward becasue east is the path of least resistance. Lets face it, no developer wants to build large scale projects right next to public housing. All the hoods that surround downtown all the way to Church St. and along St. Pauls need to be razed ASAP. Nobody wants to come downtown, the part of the city where the money is supposed to be at, and see low income housing.Politically correct or not, the housing should be moved someplace else in the city. There's a nice lot by Diggs Park that would do. Builld a couple 10 floor buildings (nice and comfy not Bronx style) and call it a day. I mean really, downtown will not reach it's full potential with them there. Raze the projects, extend the downtown grid across Brambleton and St. Paul's and wait for development. Downtown could easily stretch all the way up to 21st St., East to Tidewater and West to Medical Center Station. C.H.K.D. on Monticello needs to be relocated (maybe to Medical Center), and both gas stations need to be razed (there's gas stations further up the road you can go to). I understand all of this will take time and $$ but it needs to be done. Our downtown has come so far in the past couple years, why stop now? I don't know about you all, but I'm certanly not satisfied.

Like I said: Raze the projects, clear land from Tidewater up to 21st, restructure the street grid, and then after that;

Run a streetcar up Monticello the zoo/ riverview area.

Once they have created an urban street grid with walkable blocks, they need to zone for medium density residential/ commercial throughout the whole thing with the goals of building say, 8,000- 10,000 housing units, and 1,000,000 sq. feet of retail/ office. The housing should be at market rate and the target should be medium income families and the young generation. Building types: 3 story rowhouses, 5-7 floor apartments with ground floor retail, a couple 20 floor residential mainly for the upper class. Keep leases low to entice homegrown businesses. 2-3 parks with outdoor concert stages, etc. Our downtown would literally quadruple within 5-10 years, downtown would be truly amazing. Population: 20,000.

Downtown currently: 1.99sq. miles.

My downtown: 6.433sq. miles. Boundaries. Tidewater Drive to the East. Virginia Beach Blvd. to the North. Medical Center to the West. River to the south. Would that really be hard?

You can see how dense downtown is (although I'm sure it looks much better with Belmont Wells Fargo Residence Inn Etc. )and then the ugly crooked low density public housing

Freemason, Charlotte, Main should all be extended to Tidewater

Last off topic note: The Cedar Grove transfer station needs to be relocated to Harbor Park A.S.A.P.. I took the bus downtown and heard gunshots.I know they spent a lot of money, but once LRT is here it will totally screw up connectivity. Nobody wants to ride the NET or 310 shuttle to get downtown anyhow. It'd also help get potential riders to the rail station.

I'm very sorry for my rant.

Edited August 17, 2009 by varider

[varider]

Haha I guess my plan was dumb..

[Mobius57]

What do we do with the new hampton roads forum? Can we post? I would like to make development forums for all the HR municipalities. Like York County, Suffolk and so on as well as other posts.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mobius57

[jbhay]

Great idea, Mobius!

[varider]

Not enough happens there, lol.