Norfolk Development 2

[vdogg]

http://hamptonroads....challenge-grant

Wow, call me impressed. This should be a pretty decent addition to downtown when completed. I certainly plan on making a visit.

[vdogg]

Oh, btw, some of these comments are getting dangerously close to personal attacks. Lets try to stay respectful towards one another, even when disagreeing.

[urbanlife]

My curiosity is based around the movement of technology. How many people say, "Oh a library is nice. Even though I don't really need to go there."

15 years ago I'd never imagine a world without a copper telephone line coming into the house. Now we're sitting on a near future where everyone is close to having pretty equal access to information, assuming they are interested in looking for it. Tablet computers less than $100 for new models, the old ones will rapidly trickle down.

Google and others have been scanning pretty much everything.

So building a new huge warehouse of books at a time when things are close to changing seems questionable.

I know, I know. It will look neat. So what if the city is broke. I'm sure friends of the city gov't will get hooked up with fat contracts.

I am gonna go out on a limb and say you have never been to the Seattle Library, a library like that makes you realize the importance of libraries going into this modern world. We could debate the importance of libraries for days, but when you walk into a building like what is in Seattle, you have a moment where you are reminded of why they are important. Also, libraries go beyond looking neat, they are an important part of real society. Next thing you will be telling me is that community centers are obsolete because we have facebook.

Back to them tearing down a building then looking for $80,000,000 to replace it. And taking a beautiful building (The Seaboard Building) and hanging off of the side this new modern building. The modern thing is cool. The seaboard building is cool. Why hook the two together? Can't one of you architecture heads back me up here?

I am not sure we are looking at the same images, you make it sound like they are tearing down the Seaboard building or something...or are you trying to say it is important to preserve the parking lot next to it? The architects are showing in these images that there is an importance with saving as much of the Seaboard as possible, as well as making the architecture of the Seaboard a main design element in the atrium. So are you saying that shouldn't be done or are you saying that the parking lot shouldn't be built on? What if some developer came along and wanted to build a new building in that parking lot and have it butt up next to the Seaboard and completely ignore the building beyond it being just another neighboring building, would that be a better outcome? I would think this design is probably the best outcome anyone could hope for the Seaboard building, which is why I am a bit confused on your outlook for this.

You seem to have a very strangely jaded outlook for Norfolk about what they should be doing, you don't want this library to happen, you don't like the idea of the light rail, do you like the idea of the convention center building? Or are you against anything that would help Norfolk from being passed by?

Oh, btw, some of these comments are getting dangerously close to personal attacks. Lets try to stay respectful towards one another, even when disagreeing.

I am just trying to figure out his point of view on these topics because they seem a bit off. Who's against libraries, that is like saying your against learning.

Edited February 3, 2011 by urbanlife

[brikkman]

My curiosity is based around the movement of technology. How many people say, "Oh a library is nice. Even though I don't really need to go there."

15 years ago I'd never imagine a world without a copper telephone line coming into the house. Now we're sitting on a near future where everyone is close to having pretty equal access to information, assuming they are interested in looking for it. Tablet computers less than $100 for new models, the old ones will rapidly trickle down.

Google and others have been scanning pretty much everything.

So building a new huge warehouse of books at a time when things are close to changing seems questionable.

I know, I know. It will look neat. So what if the city is broke. I'm sure friends of the city gov't will get hooked up with fat contracts.

Can't say I agree with your here tel. I understand the importance of technology, but I think it is unfair to compare the two as I see them in parallel. If a library is anything, it is a history pool. What makes up a lot of your core education can be found in libraries. Libraries to me is like an urn holding information from our past, if anything a tribute. It also contributes to the makeup of a city. A lot of those old photos we placed on this site were from the library. When the servers drop or the internet is not accessible, that is where you can go. Besides, people will never stop writing books, some people love to read books instead of digitized information.

[Telmnstr]

I dunno, I'd just like to see the gov't be more responsible with the money they are confiscating from the citizens. I don't have a problem with taxes, but I have a problem with the money collected being spent irresponsibly.

The way I see it, we had a library that was usable. But they tore it down for an empty lot with a bus stop. I fail to believe that renovation of the Kirn would cost $100,000,000 or whatever the total is going to be by the time they are done with this new library.

And yes, I don't like the modern building connected to the classic building. Half contemporary, half old school. Meh.

And yes, I think technology is win. I've got a bookcase or two full of books myself. But the recycled computer sitting in the closet with 10 terabytes of hard drive space wins out.

[urbanlife]

I dunno, I'd just like to see the gov't be more responsible with the money they are confiscating from the citizens. I don't have a problem with taxes, but I have a problem with the money collected being spent irresponsibly.

The way I see it, we had a library that was usable. But they tore it down for an empty lot with a bus stop. I fail to believe that renovation of the Kirn would cost $100,000,000 or whatever the total is going to be by the time they are done with this new library.

And yes, I don't like the modern building connected to the classic building. Half contemporary, half old school. Meh.

And yes, I think technology is win. I've got a bookcase or two full of books myself. But the recycled computer sitting in the closet with 10 terabytes of hard drive space wins out.

Your choice in words makes me giggle, using confiscating when referring to taxes makes it sounds like the government is stealing, but then when you think of everything you use daily that is paid for by the government then that makes me wonder if you can call it confiscating, even if you have no problem paying for taxes...but that is a whole different topic that always peaks my curiosity.

As for building a new library or renovating the old, neither of us have the information to show that renovating the Kirn would of been a cheaper option, plus if you look at past moves older buildings are often times torn down because the cost of renovation is higher than renovating and expanding the original building. My guess is that relocating the library and building a new building was roughly the same cost and made more sense for the city because it freed up a site downtown for the light rail train to run through rather than condemning and tearing down other buildings to make it work.

In your house technology wins for you because you have that available to you...but a library is not the same thing as your bookshelf. Again, if you are ever looking to make a trip, you should take one to Seattle and see their library first hand and you would have a better understanding of their importance. Beyond that, you are just disagreeing with the building of the library for the sake of disagreeing.

I will ask you an architecture question, you don't like this old building next to a contemporary designed building...what would you prefer? Would you rather see the architect design something that tried to pretend it was built the same time the Seaboard building was built? If that was done, then there would be an issue with destroying the symmetry of the Seaboard in the sense of trying to pretend they were built at the same time. Again, it comes back to personal tastes and opinions, there is no building that everyone loves, there is always going to be someone who doesn't like a building, so is that a reason why buildings should never be built?

[Mos]

So the businesses (Pollard's, Shell, Family Car Wash) on the SE corner of Park and Brambleton by the NSU LR station have been cleared out. Anyone know what's up?

[Norfolk4Life]

So the businesses (Pollard's, Shell, Family Car Wash) on the SE corner of Park and Brambleton by the NSU LR station have been cleared out. Anyone know what's up?

I think its just part of the city's regular land acquisition program. The city shows that all that land is owned by NRHA. The only place not owned by the city over there is the house on Park Ave. I am sure that will be purchased as soon as the owner sells. Its one of the city's target areas so they purchase all available land to make save land for future development.

[vdogg]

So the businesses (Pollard's, Shell, Family Car Wash) on the SE corner of Park and Brambleton by the NSU LR station have been cleared out. Anyone know what's up?

Could be for NSU Rise Center 2. There were originally supposed to be 2 buildings.

[Norfolk4Life]

it is a redevelopment project through NRHA > http://www.nrha.norfolk.va.us/redevelopment/neighborhoods/south-brambleton

[ronsmytheiii]

Swayed by an 11th-hour concession from the developer and an impassioned plea from City Manager Marcus Jones, the City Council voted 5-3 Tuesday afternoon to approve a deal that paves the way for the construction of the Midtown Office Tower.

ugh, this is ugly suburban development in downtown. Disgusting

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/norfolk-council-approves-controversial-midtown-office-tower

[brikkman]

ugh, this is ugly suburban development in downtown. Disgusting

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/norfolk-council-approves-controversial-midtown-office-tower

The whole project is terrible and the fact that the city let it ride with their backing. Boy, this town......

[BFG]

I won't go as far as to say it's ugly, but it's definitely out of place, given the location. For one, it looks like an office building that you'd see in the business parks at Greenbrier or Lynnhaven, not in the ghetto of Norfolk. And honestly, I think that's way too much space for what they're using it for. A simple two-story office building would work just fine. If you want a fancy office building, put one downtown and help develop the skyline, not in the middle of the ghetto.

Norfolk's dropping the ball again.

[jeffconn]

Apparently, the Tivest project if OFF again, and the city of Norfolk is off the hook for that money. I just spotted this on norfolk.gov:

http://www.norfolk.gov/News/Press/prdetails.asp?PressID=2028

NORFOLK –The City of Norfolk administration received information this morning that the STOP Organization has reversed its decision to be a tenant in the Midtown Office Tower. The City’s participation was contingent upon Tivest Holdings, LLC being able to confirm that the STOP Organization was committed to the project. Given this new development, the administration has advised City Council that the City can not move forward with this project.

[Telmnstr]

I went to the council meeting for the Tivest thing. Really wasn't interested in that or the council meeting so much. It was crazy to watch. Basically, it was corruption and garbage. Every tenant of the building was taxpayer funded. The rental rate for one of the orgs was going to be 1.5 million a year. Watching the city council and manager do a sales pitch for the thing to the other council people was pretty wild. And Riddick goes into it's about race. It was just nutty from the get go. You can rent space cheaper in downtown.

It was hilarious to watch, but sad at the same time. To hear some council lady moron go on about how now it's a great deal that she's heard more about it. They talk about how the city is currently renting all of this space and they need to get out of renting and move to owning. The numbers they gave worked out to them paying on avg $9.3 a square foot a year, meanwhile the new building was going to be $25/sqft. Of course they could buy the condo after 10 years. Whatever.

Just nutty.

In the actual council part where they televise it and all that, like 1/4th of the people were going on about how it's racial. Someone did bring up Wachovia tower, where the land was given away. But at the end of the day, the tenants of Wachovia tower (at least the ones I know of) aren't all taxpayer funded.

I'm all for redevelopment in bad areas and all of that. But to have the city back stop it, or pay extra high rates for no reason, because it's their friend building it, is wrong. Like too many commas in a sentence wrong.

Actually, having seen all of that, it just makes me that much more sad over humanity. Our country is doomed.

Oh yea, a friend of mine emailed me talking about doing a recall petition or something. I'd have to dig up the email but is that something people are interested in?

[vdogg]

http://www.pilotonline.com/news/government/local/norfolk-eyes-harbor-park-for-development/article_2353146a-7b82-5aa4-bfd2-80c513064685.html

Sort of answers my question of why the land near Harbor Park hasn't been developed yet.

[jeffconn]

15 minutes ago, vdogg said:

http://www.pilotonline.com/news/government/local/norfolk-eyes-harbor-park-for-development/article_2353146a-7b82-5aa4-bfd2-80c513064685.html

Sort of answers my question of why the land near Harbor Park hasn't been developed yet.

The interstate separates that area from downtown is another answer. Folks just don't see it as an extension of downtown.

I've been wanting a multi-modal transfer station there for years. We already have Amtrak and the Tide in Harbor Park. Put up a few buildings and we can have HRT buses, Greyhound, some Chinatown buses, and the Portsmouth ferry in Harbor Park. With the additional people that the transfer station will bring to HP, then that area should be more desirable to developers. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by jeffconn

[BFG]

Please, please, please, Norfolk, unveil something other than condos. I get it, people want to live downtown, but be creative enough to build something other than condos. That would be a nice extension of downtown. At the very least, make it a mixed-use development. If not a high rise, then a cluster of apartments, businesses and shops similar to Monarch Village at ODU.

I also like the idea of making that a transportation hub, to go along with light rail and the Amtrak station. 

[carolinaboy]

Great forward thinking by the Planning department. Usable waterfront property in DT Norfolk is rare. Sometimes you have to make it! Make that strip behind Harbor Park (fill in the boat slips) running west to the bridge a park/nature trail. Then connect from there to the trail at Dominion Tower via an over-the-water pedestrian bridge (see a proposal in Austin, TX for something similar) to link Town Point Park to Harbor Park. That would make a mile or so long waterfront park. Then fill the parking lots to the west of Harbor Park with some high-rise mixed use/TOD developments. Norfolk is on fire if this happens.

[Virginia City]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2015 at 2:03 PM, vdogg said:

http://www.pilotonline.com/news/government/local/norfolk-eyes-harbor-park-for-development/article_2353146a-7b82-5aa4-bfd2-80c513064685.html

Sort of answers my question of why the land near Harbor Park hasn't been developed yet.

The Pilot comment section is always a laugh riot to me. It doesn't matter what type of development or where, every comment is always negative. Always! All these people need to move to a small town out in the western part of the state if they want the small town life.

 

[BFG]

So...they'd rather it be the concrete eyesore that it is now. Got it. 

Reminds me of one story a few years ago, where VB was trying to do something (don't remember what, might've been Dome-related), and someone acknowledged that it's a big city move. Someone else retorted that he doesn't want to be a big city. You live in a city of nearly a half-million people. Good luck with that!

[vdogg]

Toll lane discussion has been moved to Hampton Roads Transportation .

[vdogg]

Could've sworn we've discussed this project before but can't figure out where it's located. Pretty substantial renovation.

http://www.norfolk.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/2143?fileID=5020

[lil-bear]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:42 PM, vdogg said:

Could've sworn we've discussed this project before but can't figure out where it's located. Pretty substantial renovation.

http://www.norfolk.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/2143?fileID=5020

LOL, we all moments like that vdogg. I'm glad to see old buildings repurposed.

Edited February 25, 2016 by lil-bear

[lil-bear]

http://pilotonline.com/business/ports-rail/norfolk-southern-employees-to-relocate-in-norfolk/article_a5c1cde2-827e-5a0f-9aa5-52b1e3d149a6.html

Even more good news for DT Norfolk. Not good for Roanoke, but more Norfolk Southern employees moving to Norfolk headquarters!