Norfolk Development 2

[BFG]

Interesting that the lack of options out of ORF contributed to NS leaving, and now airports across the country are seeing lower numbers. I wonder how airports will regroup moving forward?

[vdogg]

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/townebank-and-chkd-buy-norfolk-southern-tower/

This is an interesting tidbit. I have to believe Harvey Lindsay can get Gateway off the ground now. That's a lot of space taken back off the market.

"As one of the preeminent buildings in downtown Norfolk, the Class A office building represents almost 10% of the total Class A and B downtown office space, according to Cushman & Wakefield | Thalhimer. Constructed in 1989, the building was purchased by Norfolk Southern Tower LLC in 1998 for $32.8 million, according to property records."

[BeagleAccountant]

New apartment complex on the docket for the August 27th Planning Commission meeting. They are requesting a zoning change from institutional to multi-family at 3611 Colley Avenue. This building is the former Tabernacle Christian School.  It says the plan is to convert the building to 14 apartments.

You can see the complete docket at the following link:
http://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1391&Inline=True

[Norfolk757Kid]

Damn that's epic. The ball has officially started rolling. Here comes the gentrification. 

[urbanvb]

Looking at Google maps it looks pretty urban with some older retail that can be eventually redeveloped. Also, if you turn left onto 36th Street, while using maps, there appears construction is/was beginning just across the street from the upcoming apartments.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Are there any active development plans for the land between Monticello Ave. and Armistead Ave., between 14th and 16th St.'s?

[vdogg]

Sentara is in the process of going through a huge merger. Corporate headquarters will remain in Norfolk. They talk in the article about now being able to take on larger projects.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/health/vp-nw-sentara-cone-hospitals-merger-20200812-lr5ixprhp5agpmyyapz7qkrnji-story.html

[Norf Native]

Wonder how long their headquarters will remain here before Atlanta or Charlotte try to lure them away. 

[BFG]

Underneath that, I see “Residential Tower at Waterside” with a TBD completion date. I know it’s Norfolk, but is that still scheduled?

[vdogg]

7 hours ago, BFG said:

Underneath that, I see “Residential Tower at Waterside” with a TBD completion date. I know it’s Norfolk, but is that still scheduled?

Cordish tried to build one there years ago but was shot down by the city. Maybe they've resubmitted it. it's possible the city decided to placate them by allowing them to build a residential tower so that they would shut up about the casino development.

[baobabs727]

I would be interested to see the design. 

[BFG]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:48 AM, vdogg said:

Sentara is in the process of going through a huge merger. Corporate headquarters will remain in Norfolk. They talk in the article about now being able to take on larger projects.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/health/vp-nw-sentara-cone-hospitals-merger-20200812-lr5ixprhp5agpmyyapz7qkrnji-story.html

Looking at this article again, I would think that $11 B in revenue would help Sentara make the Fortune 500, no? A very quick Google search tells me that Huntington Ingalls pulled in $8 billion last year, and they made it to #370 on the F500 list in 2019.

[BFG]

3 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I would be interested to see the design. 

This image matches one from an old thread from August 2016. The picture was used in a brochure for the Cordish Companies.

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, BFG said:

Looking at this article again, I would think that $11 B in revenue would help Sentara make the Fortune 500, no? A very quick Google search tells me that Huntington Ingalls pulled in $8 billion last year, and they made it to #370 on the F500 list in 2019.

Sentara is a nonprofit, can’t be listed as F500.

[BFG]

Ah gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.

[vdogg]

3 hours ago, BFG said:

This image matches one from an old thread from August 2016. The picture was used in a brochure for the Cordish Companies.

Typical 20-story Norfolk tower block. Hopefully they come up with something more inspired than that before going back to design review.

[baobabs727]

4 hours ago, BFG said:

This image matches one from an old thread from August 2016. The picture was used in a brochure for the Cordish Companies.

Thanks, I count around 22 floors with a massive, very tall podium. That thing is really high, so that building would have been taller the average low/mid 20s building.  I do think I recall seeing this render when it was briefly flashed at one of city council meetings years ago, which drew a bunch of consternation from a few councilmembers who thought that even merely mention of it or showing of the diagram would lead people to think they were going to let it happen. Lol. Wow. So I’m guessing this is not going to happen because this is the same one that they rejected out of hand before it even got to planning.

When was talking to Zed, one of the Cornish executives about 2015, we were talking about a taller building than this and more slender. He was extremely keen on making this happen and gaining intelligence on the new politics at the time etc.... I’ve always been open minded about this, actually. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

13 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Thanks, I count around 22 floors with a massive, very tall podium. That thing is really high, so that building would have been taller the average low/mid 20s building.  I do think I recall seeing this render when it was briefly flashed at one of city council meetings years ago, which drew a bunch of consternation from a few councilmembers who thought that even merely mention of it or showing of the diagram would lead people to think they were going to let it happen. Lol. Wow. So I’m guessing this is not going to happen because this is the same one that they rejected out of hand before it even got to planning.

When was talking to Zed, one of the Cornish executives about 2015, we were talking about a taller building than this and more slender. He was extremely keen on making this happen and gaining intelligence on the new politics at the time etc.... I’ve always been open minded about this, actually. 

That was a far different council. That was the more conservative Fraim council that rejected anything that wasn't neo-colonial brick as too "bold" for Norfolk. The new blood on City Council combined with the new mayor and city manager seem far more bullish when it comes to big, bold, city like development. I think this tower, with a few tweaks, has a more than even chance of getting the ok from current elected officials. Case and point, I cannot imagine under any circumstances the casino development getting past the Fraim-led council.

[Urbanlooker]

So from what I've heard it's definitely being discussed with the city but nothing is official. I cannot say too much about it but it's a project that Cordish is trying to revive/keep alive.

[BFG]

Someone suggested it could be a peace offering for the casino semi-controversy. A waterfront tower to add to the skyline would make a nice consolation prize in my book. 

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

Someone suggested it could be a peace offering for the casino semi-controversy. A waterfront tower to add to the skyline would make a nice consolation prize in my book. 

Add this to Gateway (if it happens) and the Casino Tower and that's 3 towers of significant height in downtown proper.

3 hours ago, Urbanlooker said:

So from what I've heard it's definitely being discussed with the city but nothing is official. I cannot say too much about it but it's a project that Cordish is trying to revive/keep alive.

I think raising noise on the casino may have been a feint and this was their end game all along. They didn't say anything about a casino before this year, I don't think they were ever all that interested. They have ALWAYS been interested in the apartment tower though. That has been part of their calculations from the beginning.

[baobabs727]

18 hours ago, vdogg said:

That was a far different council. That was the more conservative Fraim council that rejected anything that wasn't neo-colonial brick as too "bold" for Norfolk. The new blood on City Council combined with the new mayor and city manager seem far more bullish when it comes to big, bold, city like development. I think this tower, with a few tweaks, has a more than even chance of getting the ok from current elected officials. Case and point, I cannot imagine under any circumstances the casino development getting past the Fraim-led council.

OK, I think I need to clarify. Sorry, this was right before the election, during and after. So it was the new council. Andria McClellan was one of the people who went crazy, so did Martin Thomas. In any event, Zed thought that these new folks were going to be even less likely to approve. He thought that Fraim would’ve been a backer. Who knows.  We shall see!

Edited September 3, 2020 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

8 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

OK, I think I need to clarify. Sorry, this was right before the election, during and after. So it was the new council. Andria McClellan was one of the people who went crazy, so did Martin Thomas. In any event, Zed thought that these new folks were going to be even less likely to approve. He thought that Fraim would’ve been a backer. Who knows.  We shall see!

McClellan went crazy about the casino too. It still passed. Her and Thomas are Norfolk’s version of Abbott/Moss. I still think the majority of council may allow it, especially if they stay quiet about the casino bill.

[Norfolk757Kid]

Even though I'm not a fan of Cordish, I am a fan of this development. Have you ever seen anyone actually use waterside as a real park? Building on part of it could redesign the grassy square and area around Waterside. It would also signal that DT is not just for BT and other local developers. I wonder if council or the Mayor could slip in some affordable housing requirements into this development. Seems like Richmond is trying to figure out how to do it in future developments. 

[baobabs727]

13 minutes ago, Norfolk757Kid said:

Even though I'm not a fan of Cordish, I am a fan of this development. Have you ever seen anyone actually use waterside as a real park? Building on part of it could redesign the grassy square and area around Waterside. It would also signal that DT is not just for BT and other local developers. I wonder if council or the Mayor could slip in some affordable housing requirements into this development. Seems like Richmond is trying to figure out how to do it in future developments. 

It would actually, as you may know, be built on the old annex pad, which is currently an automated pay-for-parking lot and surrounding grass as you say.  I’m not sure what would become of the games lot. 

As for signaling new blood, I think you probably mean to say no more Buddy Gadams. He owns literally about 95% of downtown apartment buildings, while Bruce Thompson has only built one building—Hilton Norfolk, The Main. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by baobabs727