Is Greenville South Carolina's "Asheville"?

[teshadoh]

I think the comparison comes from being relatively 'up & coming' cities placed on the edge of mountains. Probably not the best comparison - but I can't think of any other cities...

[MAJIKMAN]

I agree with Krazee. Asheville is pretty liberal and Greenville is extremely conservative.

Why do I keep hearing people say the city of Greenville is conservative, when its the county

of Greenville that is. What is the deal. Oh I know BJ right. Well they only run their own little

corner that's all.

[teshadoh]

I think it can generally be understood that in every city or town center the population is largely moderate to liberal. But when suburbia composes a majority of the area, that distinction is not as well noticed. Fulton County, home of Atlanta is nearly 50/50, with a slight majority leaning democrat due to the county's suburban influence. But where counties are even more predominately suburban despite the center city - Greenville Co or Mecklenburg Co it is even less noticable.

[MAJIKMAN]

I think it can generally be understood that in every city or town center the population is largely moderate to liberal. But when suburbia composes a majority of the area, that distinction is not as well noticed. Fulton County, home of Atlanta is nearly 50/50, with a slight majority leaning democrat due to the county's suburban influence. But where counties are even more predominately suburban despite the center city - Greenville Co or Mecklenburg Co it is even less noticable.

I feel ya.

[krazeeboi]

teshadoh/Krazeeboi, how do Greeneville and Huntsville compare? I'm not saying that they don't, I just don't see it at a glance. As I have said before, I don't really know Greenville except going though the area via the interstate, but I know Huntsville quite well.

Another valid comparison, besides the facts teshadoh gave, is the amount of engineers per capita in both cities/counties, which is pretty high. I think both cities are making pretty good strides in establishing themselves in a post-industrial global economy.

[Charleston native]

Yes. Charleston of the late 80's, pre Hugo. King St, Market St, etc resembled Asheville of today. It was artsy, beatnick and bohemian. Unfortunately unrestrained gentrification has turned the city into a high priced tourist trap full of chain stores now. All of the eclectic places, stores, restaurants and coffee houses, are gone now and replaced by boredom. The only thing left that is interesting is the architecture.

I hope this does not happen to Asheville.

I would completely disagree with this assessment. I grew up and lived in Chas throughout the late 70s, 80s, and 90s. Many places in DT Chas were seedy, and crime was a rather frequent thing. Places where Charleston Place is now located were run-down areas with drunks hanging around the tourist streets and The Market. There weren't that many restaurants and coffee houses, because many locals did not want to go there! DT is far from boredom now, and there are still many places that are Bohemian and artsy. There's also a ton more local restaurants, coffee houses, and stores.

Asheville really has not had a crime problem in its DT area, from what I've seen and heard, so its been able to keep its liberal atmosphere. Geographically and culturally, it is completely different from my hometown. Chas is not just a tourist city, it is also a major shipping and business center. Let's not forget the amenities provided for motorboats, sailboats, and other aquatic activities. Asheville is more of a mountain city...it's near plenty of places for hiking and even skiing.

[intcvlcphlga]

There are few substantive similarities between Asheville and Greenville. Asheville is an incredibly hip, vibrant, artistic (and yes, liberal) town whereas Greenville seems way too uptight and conservative. Black Mountain College (now Warren Wilson College) on the edge of Asheville was founded by expat artists from the Bauhaus and is a microcosm of the free spirited feel of the city. Greenville, on the other hand, has Bob Jones University (founded by Bob Jones) where they're still struggling with the interacial dating issue...perhaps they'll tackle feminist and gay issues in a few decades.

[jr7777]

Asheville has the French Broad River downtown, but you almost wouldn't know it. I think the high Smoky Park Bridge has gotten people so used to flying 200 feet above the river that they consider the river itself to be in a deep, inaccessible ravine, which is a pity because it could be such an asset to the city.

There is also the Swannanoa River through Biltmore Village (one of Asheville's "secondary" downtowns.)

The big difference is, though, that these rivers in Asheville are ignored and abused like readheaded stepchildren, surrounded with junkyards, rusty dilapidated sheds, and weedy polluted brownfields rather than celebrated with parks and riverwalks like the Reedy in Greenville.

This is what I meant when I stated Greenville has the Reedy River. While the Reedy River is a downtown attraction in Greenville, the French Broad and Swannanoa Rivers are ignored. It would be nice if Asheville would do something with these rivers like Greenville did with the Reedy.

The streets now called Broadway Street and Biltmore Avenue used to be called Main Street. Actually, Biltmore used to align with Broadway rather than Merrimon, and Broadway (then Main Street) was the major northern thoroughfare in the city until right about when streetcars came onto the scene in the late 19th century.

Thanks for clearing that up orulz, i was never really sure about the whole main street thing.

[goodbye]

Why can't Asheville be North Carolina's "Greenville"?

I think the starkest contrast though is that Asheville is probably the most liberal city in NC whereas Greenville is undoubtedly the most conservative in SC.

From my personal experience, Anderson is more conservative than Greenville. But then we're talking about varieties of apples.

[goodbye]

There are few substantive similarities between Asheville and Greenville. Asheville is an incredibly hip, vibrant, artistic (and yes, liberal) town whereas Greenville seems way too uptight and conservative. Black Mountain College (now Warren Wilson College) on the edge of Asheville was founded by expat artists from the Bauhaus and is a microcosm of the free spirited feel of the city. Greenville, on the other hand, has Bob Jones University (founded by Bob Jones) where they're still struggling with the interacial dating issue...perhaps they'll tackle feminist and gay issues in a few decades.

I can speak from the experience of one who has grown up in Greenville and visited Asheville more times than I can remember.

Interracial dating is no longer an issue at BJU. That should have been obvious to the entire nation a few years ago.

Greenville's city life is not at all "way too uptight." In fact, it is very similar to that of any other vibrant southern city, only it has a decidedly European touch downtown.

The Arts scene in downtown Greenville is already thriving and rapidly growing in the West End and West Greenville areas. RiverPlace is bringing more "soho-ish" noteriety along the banks of the Reedy River in the near future, and in West Greenville, a new "soho-ish" artist colony is emerging from clusters of quaint old buildings once abandoned. Also located in downtown Greenville is The South Carolina Governor's School for the Arts and Humanities. This is a top knotch magnet for creative kids from all over the region.

Music is becoming a key ingredient in the lives of young and old in downtown Greenville. There are a few music stores/cafes, and a new world-class recording studio in the West End, where Edwin McCain is recording his latest album. The Greenville Symphony Orchestra has been globally recognized as a magnificent symphony. Performers in the GSO come from all over the Southeast and beyond.

All of this is not intended to say that Greenville has a larger arts scene than Asheville. That would be a grave misunderstanding. Asheville is the regional hub for art of all kinds, and it has a much higher concentration than Greenville. What Greenville does have over Asheville is a more rapidly growing and expanding downtown. Currently, the moyoral candidates in Asheville are disputing whether or not to build a new parking garage near the Civic Center.

[NcSc74]

Well Greenville NC is not a Greenville SC it still has some significance in eastern NC. ECU is located there and is the medical hub for the eastern region. I considered going to ECU but I chose to move to Greensboro. As for Asheville I am still trying to get back there to show my kids what a beautiful places that NC has. They already have been to the Outer Banks and Wilmington.

Thats my kids and sister back in December last year. I encourage everyone to visit Asheville. It is a unique southern gem.

[upstate29650]

Where's that battleship in Asheville? That looks sooo cool! And, imagine how they got it up there!

[goodbye]

I'm not sure what the connection was, but it looks like that was taken in Wilmington?

[monsoon]

The towns most similar to Asheville in the Carolinas are also in North Carolina.

In no particular order, in NC

Black Mountain,

Boone,

Blowing Rock,

Chapel Hill/Caroboro

Wilmington

Roanoke Va, also gets honorable mention.

Possible Contenders in SC

Charleston - See comments above, the experience there is more like going to an exclusive shopping mall now. And Charleston has always been very conservative.

Caycee (on the other side of the river from Columbia) - They were developing an artsy area there as there were a number of old buildings in Caycee that would support something like this. However I have not been there in a number of years so I don't know how it turned out. Anyone have some updates? I've always thought that Columbia was fairly conservative however.

[orulz]

What Greenville does have over Asheville is a more rapidly growing and expanding downtown. Currently, the moyoral candidates in Asheville are disputing whether or not to build a new parking garage near the Civic Center.

I haven't been following Greenville lately so I don't know exactly what's going on there, but in Asheville there's a lot more than the just the (controversial) parking deck happening downtown.

21 Battery Park, 7 story residential/retail mixed use (almost done)

12 South Lexington, 7 story residential/retail mixed use (under construction)

Woodfin and College, 10 story office/retail mixed use (approved)

Dixon on Biltmore, 12 story residential/retail mixed use (approved)

Complete rebuild of Pack Square and City County Plaza (under construction)

Not to mention a few ongoing renovations of historic structures and a number of smaller projects.

While Greenville may very well have more going on downtown than Asheville, A-ville isn't exactly asleep either.

[TennBear]

Another valid comparison, besides the facts teshadoh gave, is the amount of engineers per capita in both cities/counties, which is pretty high. I think both cities are making pretty good strides in establishing themselves in a post-industrial global economy.

Thanks Krazeeboi. Another question, why is Spartanburg not doing as well as Greenville? I have always associated them together. I see that Greenville is growing has property values going up, etc and Spartenburg as one of the places that is missing out on real estate growth.

[Charleston native]

...Charleston - See comments above, the experience there is more like going to an exclusive shopping mall now. And Charleston has always been very conservative...

Are you just trying to start an argument? Please see my comments above in reference to my hometown. Yes, Chas may be conservative, but it is nowhere near the levels of cities like Lexington and Greenville. The city still has many artsy places, and I take offense with saying that Chas is like a shopping mall. There are classy places to shop and dine, now, but in comparison to what DT was like 20 years ago, that is a great improvement. Again, Charleston's DT and Asheville's DT are distinctly different in that Chas had more of a problem with crime than Asheville has or had at anytime.

[krazeeboi]

Thanks Krazeeboi. Another question, why is Spartanburg not doing as well as Greenville? I have always associated them together. I see that Greenville is growing has property values going up, etc and Spartenburg as one of the places that is missing out on real estate growth.

I'm sure Spartan can answer that question much better than I could. I do believe that there may be some downtown residential projects in the works in Spartanburg though; check out the Spartanburg subforum to see for sure.

[goodbye]

Thanks Krazeeboi. Another question, why is Spartanburg not doing as well as Greenville? I have always associated them together. I see that Greenville is growing has property values going up, etc and Spartenburg as one of the places that is missing out on real estate growth.

Spartanburg is doing very well these days, as you'd immediately notice upon first seeing downtown again. It is undergoing the same kind of rennaisance that Greenville began a couple decades ago, and there is sure to be an equal amount of new interest in development in the coming years.

I haven't been following Greenville lately so I don't know exactly what's going on there, but in Asheville there's a lot more than the just the (controversial) parking deck happening downtown.

21 Battery Park, 7 story residential/retail mixed use (almost done)

12 South Lexington, 7 story residential/retail mixed use (under construction)

Woodfin and College, 10 story office/retail mixed use (approved)

Dixon on Biltmore, 12 story residential/retail mixed use (approved)

Complete rebuild of Pack Square and City County Plaza (under construction)

Not to mention a few ongoing renovations of historic structures and a number of smaller projects.

While Greenville may very well have more going on downtown than Asheville, A-ville isn't exactly asleep either.

Thanks for that list, orulz! That is what I had hoped someone would present to give Asheville its justice. I would love to see Greenville and Asheville grow together more. A direct freeway would be ideal.

[Spartan]

Thanks Krazeeboi. Another question, why is Spartanburg not doing as well as Greenville? I have always associated them together. I see that Greenville is growing has property values going up, etc and Spartenburg as one of the places that is missing out on real estate growth.

Spartanburg is doing very well these days, as you'd immediately notice upon first seeing downtown again. It is undergoing the same kind of rennaisance that Greenville began a couple decades ago, and there is sure to be an equal amount of new interest in development in the coming years.

Thanks for that list, orulz! That is what I had hoped someone would present to give Asheville its justice. I would love to see Greenville and Asheville grow together more. A direct freeway would be ideal.

TennBear, that is a common misperception that people have. Spartanburg's major growth corridors are not along the interstate, but along Highway 9 in Boiling Springs and the Blackstock Rd/221 area. Duncan is the exception to this. Spartanburg is not missing out any growth I assure you. We are often overshdowed by Greenville because they have a larger volume of it.

Now, as far as land values go, I am not sure what to say. I can only assume that you mean in downtown. If that is the case, then you can't really compare the two. What you see in downtown Greenville is the result of 20 years of success, and will not happen in Spartanburg for several years, because downtown has only seen the light in the past 5 years. Its really been quite amazing to watch. Spartanburg's advantage is that there is a strong trend for urban housing in America these days. So it could potentially see this type of development sooner than Greenville did (comparatively). As things are moving, more companies that have had the HQ's in the county are moving to the city and investing in our community, and more and more businesses are beginning to see that Spartanburg is a good place to be.

The latest plan I have heard about is comparing this one section of town to Greenville's West End. Its a grungy industrial district with a few houses in one area. There is one building that is being rehabbed as we speak, and the city is invisioning a art district of sorts, with a park and a water feature made form a spring that is in that area. Morgan Square is nearly complete, and there are also plans to expand the Memorial Auditorium. Construction will begin (if it has not yet) on the new Arts Center (which should be awsome), and there are lots of new restaurants/caf