NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[JBGB]

^Not true dude!.... if you came with us to trivia at Revolution, and pool at Sanctuary....

I feel ya. I don't want to pass judgment and be an old fart. Sanctuary is a really nice place to play pool and I do have alot of peeps that live in North Davidson area.

Sometimes I miss the vibe of the old days. I just get mad that people that made the place what it is sometimes get forced out with the cost of prices rising: artist, beat niks, and shop owners. Hopefully "NoDa" can keep the vibe of the past alive and moving forward.

[tozmervo]

Beatniks have a long, proud history of seeking out corners of a city and making them their own. Gentrifiers have a long, proud history of coming in behind the beatniks and making that work their own. It's a cycle. I'm just waiting for an artists' colony to rise up way out in Shady Acres or Hills or whatever the hell that subdivision is called down in southeast meck.

[marriotthill]

We just noticed that Jack & Chill is closing also, I think 2/14.

[voyager12]

Oh Jeez that's depressing.... It was barely open. Not that surprised though, everytime I went it was empty.

[New Name]

Yeah, I wished they hadn't opened an Ice Cream place in the winter. Bummer. Although, I never got in there...so I can understand....

[Charlotte_native]

Shops, other than galleries, have always had a tough time in NoDa. Restaurants and bars have always fared better. I just isn't much of a shopping district, IMO, for whatever reason. It seems, and has been, more of an entertainment and dining district (counting galleries being open on gallery crawls as more social and entertainment than just being stores).

[voyager12]

I agree with that ^ The only other neighborhood in town with a similar funky vibe is Plaza Midwood. They seem to faring a little better than NoDa in this regard. Maybe because there is a larger mix of options. I have also been told that PM benefits from being adjacent to Elizabeth and Myers Park. And NoDa is too far out and surrounded by high crime areas and that holds it back. I guess it's all relative to what you are used to . I have never felt unsafe. You should keep an eye out everywhere in this city.

[Charlotte_native]

I agree with that ^ The only other neighborhood in town with a similar funky vibe is Plaza Midwood. They seem to faring a little better than NoDa in this regard. Maybe because there is a larger mix of options. I have also been told that PM benefits from being adjacent to Elizabeth and Myers Park. And NoDa is too far out and surrounded by high crime areas and that holds it back. I guess it's all relative to what you are used to . I have never felt unsafe. You should keep an eye out everywhere in this city.

Agreed. I also think it helps that Central Ave is a main drag that has lots of traffic so a lot of people 1) know about it and where it is, 2) it's convenient, 3) has the chance of getting more 'stop in' activity. NoDa is just more out of the way and isn't on many people, other than neighbors, normal path.

[New Name]

^ I totally agree. I feel bad for shops in NoDa but I really don't know what can be done. One of the things we are trying to figure out is what we can sustain. And honestly, if I am a barometer for the consumption needs of the neighborhood, we need very little. We get dinner 3 or 4 times a week. We want a neighborhood bar to meet with friends a couple nights a week. A "good" grocery store would be nice but since we now have a Trader Joes a couple of miles away, we don't even really need that. Salvidor Deli has a few small items. We have the CVS over on Plaza if we need it - and there's an Eckerd on Tryon too. I mean really, I can't think of one thing that I am missing from NoDa that we would use... (and unfortunately, that includes a kitchy novety store and an ice cream place in the winter )

[atlrvr]

Until all of those places you mentioned are easily accessibly by walking, I'd argue there are still are needs, or at least wants. Of course, until more residenital comes, there won't be the demand. Where I lived in Boston, I didn't have to walk more than 3 blocks for EVERYTHING except my job and a "night out on the town". There was multiple convenience stores, clothing store, a groceries store, pharmacies, vetinary clinic, transit station, dozens of restaurants/bars, coffee shops, ice cream shop, video store, electronics store, etc, etc, etc. I think this should be goal of every urban neighborhood in Charlotte, mean those neighborhoods that are already centralized or adjacent to an established commercial strip. (NoDa, Elizabeth, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Dilworth, Myers Park, Eastover, and Cherry).

When I was on DCDA, this was a big debate that made my opinion unpopular. I suggest that until density increases to a point where shops can be sustained on neighborhood and foot traffic alone, then we will never reachieve the neighborhood feel before. Too large a percent of the population is content to drive to outside the neighbrhood to either get better prices, selection, or convenience. Population thresholds to support true neighborhood retail are now much higher than the were 50 years ago because of this.

[JBGB]

Until all of those places you mentioned are easily accessibly by walking, I'd argue there are still are needs, or at least wants. Of course, until more residenital comes, there won't be the demand. Where I lived in Boston, I didn't have to walk more than 3 blocks for EVERYTHING except my job and a "night out on the town". There was multiple convenience stores, clothing store, a groceries store, pharmacies, vetinary clinic, transit station, dozens of restaurants/bars, coffee shops, ice cream shop, video store, electronics store, etc, etc, etc. I think this should be goal of every urban neighborhood in Charlotte, mean those neighborhoods that are already centralized or adjacent to an established commercial strip. (NoDa, Elizabeth, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Dilworth, Myers Park, Eastover, and Cherry).

When I was on DCDA, this was a big debate that made my opinion unpopular. I suggest that until density increases to a point where shops can be sustained on neighborhood and foot traffic alone, then we will never reachieve the neighborhood feel before. Too large a percent of the population is content to drive to outside the neighbrhood to either get better prices, selection, or convenience. Population thresholds to support true neighborhood retail are now much higher than the were 50 years ago because of this.

Atl Raver please run for Mayor of this city! You got my vote.

[marriotthill]

I don't necessarily think retail can not make it in NoDa. I just believe certain stores can't. I don't want to offend the owners of the Niche store but I would've catered to the existing neighborhood, "artsy" families and tailored it them. I'm not talking about "artsy" diapers or anything like that but maybe an affordable boutique, a local affordable small furniture store,etc.... They could still sell some premium items but cater to lower to mid income families. As far as the Jack n Chill, I just don't think the concept was fully accomplished. It didn't seem like much of an ice cream place for me. Maybe freshly made ice cream on premises, as well as another winter type of snack, food, etc... I think if you aren't a franchise, it is tremendously hard to continue if you sell only ice cream. I know it's also a gallery but the ice cream/other food snack is what should attract the customer and while he/she is there they may purchase a piece. We need a diner type of restaurant that serves breakfast all day, and even open 24 hrs. certain days. I disagree about not needing a grocer. That few minutes it takes to get to Trader's can easily turn into much longer at certain times. I do think the area could support a larger grocer like a Harris Teeter, maybe in the factory across from the "future" 28th lynx station. I think it's far enough from the main NoDa that it wouldn't negatively impact it and it would create more traffic in and around the area.It could be a simple way of actually spurring more success in NoDa. I know Harris Teeter or Lowe's Foods isn't everyone's cup of tea but I for one think if done right, it could have a hugely positive impact in NoDa. I also think it also would be nice if a couple of the abandoned NoDa buildings would be developed soon as well as improved roads and sidewalks. With all the money they are spending with the Sugar Creek by the Metropolitan development in "midtown", I would think they could at least pave the roads and "mow" the sidewalks and add a few speed bumps near the main NoDa drag (before someone gets hit).

[voyager12]

I also think NoDa can support more and varied retail in the future. The light rail station and the slate of condo projects will be built when the economy starts rolling again. And this growing residential base will attract better options. Maybe places like Niche and Jack and Chill were just a little too ahead of their time and their target market.

I rummage around for vintage clothes at Rat's Nest all the time. They have told me that the current state of the economy has helped them. You can pick up shirts and jeans there for under $20. On the other end of the spectrum shopping that is more of a want than a need like art is the first to suffer in a recession.

Niche's shirts and sneakers are great but the pricepoint is much higher than what most of NoDa can afford now. Their Southend branch does well because it's located around a more affluent market. NoDa is not there yet.

[JBGB]

Does anyone know what point the trolleys were removed from the streets of Charlottes and why? Wilmore, Dilworth, Wesley Heights, Belmont and NoDa area all grew around this right? Seems like if NoDa area could get a trolley system back it would really benefit since everyone lives to one side of the strip of shops.

[monsoon]

The last trolley closed in Charlotte in the late 1930s. I want to say 1939. In the 1930s when the trolleys were taken off the streets in Charlotte, as they were in most cities, they were seen as being old fashioned when compared to sleek new streamlined city buses. We look at them with a sense of nostalgia now, but but they were seen as big wooden boxes that were not particularly comfortable and needed to go the same way as the horse and buggy.

There was also a company created by GM, Firestone, and one of the oil companies (I might have the tire company wrong too.) that existed to buy these trolley systems to shut them down. This was an obvious attempt to get people on the road which would greatly benefit their industries. I don't think this company operated in Charlotte but it happened in so many places that the mindshare it created against the trolleys spread to places like Charlotte.

One more thing. In the days of the trolley lines, most were privately owned as the municipal governments tended not to be involved in transit then. Charlotte's system was owned by Duke power. It was as much a business decision to shut these systems down by companies that did not want to be involved in something that was going to be competing against the automobile. I might be wrong, but only New Orleans and San Francisco kept their original trolley systems.

[Charlotte_native]

I might be wrong, but only New Orleans and San Francisco kept their original trolley systems.

Are any other cities, right now other than us, looking to put some trolley systems back in use?

I would love to see trolleys to many of these former streetcar neighborhoods, but I don't think the city is looking at any other lines other than Trade Street, Central, Beatties Ford. I doubt they'd consider North Davidson since there are plans in consideration for light-rail.

[Bikeguy]

"One more thing. In the days of the trolley lines, most were privately owned as the municipal governments tended not to be involved in transit then. Charlotte's system was owned by Duke power."

Actually here's the whole story on the trolley and Edward Latta's involvement... from Roots.web.

"

Edward Dilworth Latta and five Charlotte entrepreneurs he recruited organized the Charlotte Consolidated Construction Company, known as the Four Cs, in 1890. The company's first project was to upgrade the old horsecar system and establish a new neighborhood, Dilworth, one and a half miles south of the city center. Four Cs paid the Edison Electric Company (which Thomas Edison helped organize) $40,000 to install an electric streetcar line along the former horsecar lines and extend the route to Dilworth. As with most horsecar-electric streetcar conversions, this required removing the horsecar tracks and installing heavier tracks. The first trolley on the new system ran on May 18, 1891. "While the prospect of considerable profit certainly inspired Dilworth's formation, Latta's thinking also evinced a broad streak of New South boosterism," wrote Charlotte historian Tom Hanchett.

The neighborhood park, Latta Park, helped attract riders and prospective residents to Dilworth. In addition, a textile mill and industrial area were established on the edge of the neighborhood. Four Cs extended streetcar lines to other neighborhoods on the city's outskirts. Later, during World War I, the War Department built Camp Greene, which trained up to 65,000 men, west of the city on a streetcar line.

Tobacco and textile manufacturer James B. Duke established a new utility, Southern Power Company, in Charlotte in 1905 and began building hydroelectric plants along the Catawba River and the Piedmont region. The company won approval for a streetcar franchise in 1910, despite opposition from Latta.

Shortly thereafter Latta sold his trolley company, Charlotte Electric Railway Company, (consisting of thirteen miles of tracks, thirty-nine trolley cars, and a car barn), to Southern Power for $1,235,000. At the same time, Latta sold Duke his gas supply business.

Southern Power, at Duke's initiative, also established the Piedmont and Northern Railway in 1911, the state's only successful interurban electric railway and one of a few such systems in the Southeast. The Greater Charlotte Club (now Charlotte Chamber of Commerce) supported this move by raising and contributing $300,000. Interurban lines operated between cities, also accessing electricity overhead, but using multi-car trains that served freight as well as passengers. P&N's Charlotte-Gastonia line opened in 1912 with its own tracks and included passenger stops in Pinoca, Thrift, Mount Holly, North Belmont, McAdenville, Lowell, Ranlo, and Groves. The railroad also operated a passenger and freight line between Spartanburg and Anderson, S.C. and an all-freight line from Mount Holly to Terrell, N.C. in Catawba County. In 1913 Southern Power (which became Duke Power in 1924) organized a new subsidiary, Southern Public Utilities Company, to operate streetcar systems and expand the company's retail activities. The following year, the company opened a new, forty-car barn. By 1930 Duke Power owned the streetcar systems in Winston-Salem, Greensboro, High Point, and Salisbury. The Charlotte system expanded to serve several new outlying neighborhoods and reached a total of twenty-nine miles of trackage.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Bikeguy

[voyager12]

The Observer's Food Critic Helen Schwab gave Revolution a stellar review today and says it's bustling. Good to hear some positive news from the neighborhood.

[Charlotte_native]

The Observer's Food Critic Helen Schwab gave Revolution a stellar review today and says it's bustling. Good to hear some positive news from the neighborhood.

What is Revolution?

[atlrvr]

A pizza joint that took the place of the old Mellow Mushroom at the corner of N. Davidson and 36th.

[voyager12]

I would like to hear from those who have been to Revolution. Was your experience as gastronomically orgasmic as Helen's ? If so I'll have what she's having

[New Name]

I've been there many times. I was there last night actually. It's good - I like pizza that no one else likes around here though - so I can't comment on the crust. It's mainly build your own pie, choose your style and toppings, so it's as good as you build it. The big seller to me is the beers on tap and trivia night. Of course, the environment is a big plus.

[Seabreeze]

I've been there many times. I was there last night actually. It's good - I like pizza that no one else likes around here though - so I can't comment on the crust. It's mainly build your own pie, choose your style and toppings, so it's as good as you build it. The big seller to me is the beers on tap and trivia night. Of course, the environment is a big plus.

I took a friend there going on and on how the coolest decor of a restaurant was the upside down furniture mounted to the exposed rooms above, only to arrive and find tacky light fixtures This neighborhood is having its funky identity stripped away. I don't see why they would remove this and not add a loft or something for dining. Revolutions food may be better but the character is now generic and will never draw me away from the other generic pizza joints with decent pizza near my place. Nothing special. Especially with the competition with dining in this town.

[nonillogical]

I would like to hear from those who have been to Revolution. Was your experience as gastronomically orgasmic as Helen's ? If so I'll have what she's having

some of the better pizza i've had, and hands-down the best i've had in Charlotte thus far. i've only been here a year, but it made a strong impression on me. and yes their selection of beers on tap is ridiiiculous.

i used to be a consistent mellow mushroom patron in other cities though and part of me wishes we still had one in that spot.

Edited January 24, 2009 by nonillogical

[f0xym0p]

I've been there and thought the pizza was very good. I wish they would have some house pizzas on the menu instead of completely create your own. I was disappointed to see the furniture gone from the ceiling also, but I thought it looked pretty nice inside. I hope it will stick around.