NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[Desert Power]

49 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

The property owners of Smelly Cat plan to sell to developers in 4 or 5 years when Smelly Cat and Revolution's leases are up.

And from what I learned, the Company Store does not own their land either.

So this means we have four five years to do what we couldn't for South End's Common Market site. Can you imagine standing at the corner of 36th St and N Davidson St without the grandeur of the Revolution house and its peoples' plaza? I can, and I don't like it.

I know how this city, and reality, works, but we can do our best to organize to prevent it from occurring. Who knows.

Good to hear Smelly Cat is looking to expand though.  Heart of Noda right now:  coffee, dumplings, and beer all together

Have to preserve the plaza though, was pissed when revolution painted over the prior mural.  Can't see their building staying.

 

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

The property owners of Smelly Cat plan to sell to developers in 4 or 5 years when Smelly Cat and Revolution's leases are up.

And from what I learned, the Company Store does not own their land either.

So this means we have four five years to do what we couldn't for South End's Common Market site. Can you imagine standing at the corner of 36th St and N Davidson St without the grandeur of the Revolution house and its peoples' plaza? I can, and I don't like it.

I know how this city, and reality, works, but we can do our best to organize to prevent it from occurring. Who knows.

Can I ask you why you think this?  

Don't get me wrong.  I love the iced coffee there and both buildings have a great vibe.  But it's a pretty massive parcel on a prime corner lot next to the light rail.  Isn't one of the keys to making light rail work to redevelop around the stations?

[CLT704]

Those establishments are a prime factor of what makes NoDa unique, and demolishing them just takes away a part of NoDa's identity. There is a lot of lots on the other side of the station and further down N Davidson and 36th that could be redeveloped. 

Do you really want NoDa to become a new SouthEnd?

[Matthew.Brendan]

I'm imagining pretty much a duplication of Mercury across the street. 

[SgtCampsalot]

25 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Can I ask you why you think this?  

Don't get me wrong.  I love the iced coffee there and both buildings have a great vibe.  But it's a pretty massive parcel on a prime corner lot next to the light rail.  Isn't one of the keys to making light rail work to redevelop around the stations?

Because I just view it as wrong. Things in cities don't have to happen because it makes good business sense. They can, and usually do, for those reasons, but there's more to what makes life worth living than that.

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Because I just view it as wrong. Things in cities don't have to happen because it makes good business sense. They can, and usually do, for those reasons, but there's more to what makes life worth living than that.

I can see this perspective but I just can't agree with it.  I think when the public spends a billion dollars on a light rail line and the areas where that line goes gain massive benefits, there needs to be a give on that take.  Redevelopment is the expectation because without it the public looses the benefit.  

Personally I think the compromise is to find ways to ensure that quality redevelopment happens.  Not just volume but quality that's conforming to the existing neighborhood.

[SgtCampsalot]

8 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I can see this perspective but I just can't agree with it.  I think when the public spends a billion dollars on a light rail line and the areas where that line goes gain massive benefits, there needs to be a give on that take.  Redevelopment is the expectation because without it the public looses the benefit.  

Personally I think the compromise is to find ways to ensure that quality redevelopment happens.  Not just volume but quality that's conforming to the existing neighborhood.

And I agree with your second point, if it gets there, bottom line.

Regarding whether or not it should happen, while you're not wrong, you're still looking at it from a purely numbers and business standpoint, not a human one.

If you want to get the most money invested and density-for-density's-sake, then you're correct. But if you want to actually cultivate a culture, and encourage the healthy growth of a place for the people there, then it's morally and ethically wrong in my opinion. 

[southslider]

NoDa already survived the loss of Fat City and Center of the Earth Gallery.

[UrbanGossip]

3 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

And I agree with your second point, if it gets there, bottom line.

Regarding whether or not it should happen, while you're not wrong, you're still looking at it from a purely numbers and business standpoint, not a human one.

If you want to get the most money invested and density-for-density's-sake, then you're correct. But if you want to actually cultivate a culture, and encourage the healthy growth of a place for the people there, then it's morally and ethically wrong in my opinion. 

Who is inflicting this wrong in our free market?  The land owner selling their land?  Maybe they had counted on this for retirement, or to put their grand kids through college?  Or just have investors looking for a return.  Who knows but I don't think there's a right or wrong.  It's just the way it goes in an urban environment with privately held land in a free market society.  The right or wrong happens on the redevelopment like CJD said.

[Niner National]

1 hour ago, UrbanGossip said:

Who is inflicting this wrong in our free market?  The land owner selling their land?  Maybe they had counted on this for retirement, or to put their grand kids through college?  Or just have investors looking for a return.  Who knows but I don't think there's a right or wrong.  It's just the way it goes in an urban environment with privately held land in a free market society.  The right or wrong happens on the redevelopment like CJD said.

I'd love to see it stay but agree with you and cjd

[SgtCampsalot]

16 hours ago, UrbanGossip said:

Who is inflicting this wrong in our free market?  The land owner selling their land?  Maybe they had counted on this for retirement, or to put their grand kids through college?  Or just have investors looking for a return.  Who knows but I don't think there's a right or wrong.  It's just the way it goes in an urban environment with privately held land in a free market society.  The right or wrong happens on the redevelopment like CJD said.

Right I really do hear you. But only looking at whether something is free market/ privately owned land is still considering the one over the many. And while it is subjective, there is still an objectivity in everyone's heart that knows when something has a wrongness to it. Surely you understand what I'm talking about.

[cjd5050]

23 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Right I really do hear you. But only looking at whether something is free market/ privately owned land is still considering the one over the many. And while it is subjective, there is still an objectivity in everyone's heart that knows when something has a wrongness to it. Surely you understand what I'm talking about.

It's not everyone's heart.  It's in yours and many agree with you but not everyone.  

That corner is dead right now.  The corner building is set back from the street and seating is elevated and the coffee shop has too much emphasis on parking.  

To put it another way, if you find it unreasonable that a corner in a thriving area of town next to a mass transit stop on a $1b public investment shouldn't be upgraded...then you really can't have issue with any other land use or emphasis on cars in other parts of the city.  As these would be conflicting opinions.

To me, that perspective has more 'wrongness' to it than anything being discussed here.

Agree to disagree I suppose.

[SgtCampsalot]

Not all parking is created equal, and it is possible to have more value come out of an "inefficient" use of land than a more "efficient" use. Do you see how you're only working off numbers? By that logic we need to get all inefficient old buildings within .5 miles of the BLE torn down. Goodbye Public House and Fire Station. Goodbye Visualize and Viva Chicken. Goodbye Evening Muse, goodbye Neighborhood Theater when those hippies get past their ignorant deed restrictions. Those buildings are all four floors too short. We're failing the public good by keeping those inefficiencies in place.

It is the same mindset that tore highways through neighbirhoods, and that destroyed established African-American communities for the sake of progress. It is only a difference of degrees.

Edited September 25, 2016 by SgtCampsalot

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Maybe this is too complicated, but not all parking is equal, and you can have more value come out of an "inefficient" use of land than a more "efficient" use. Do you see how you're only working off numbers? By that logic we need to get all inefficient old buildings within .5 miles of the BLE torn down. Goodbye Public House and Fire Station. Goodbye Visualize and Viva Chicken. Goodbye Evening Muse, goodbye Neighborhood Theater when those hippies get past their ignorant deed restrictions. Those buildings are all four floors too short. We're failing the public good by keeping those inefficiencies in place.

I am not just working off numbers but it appears you're working off just emotions.  Please don't try to put words into my mouth to try to defend your position.  It only weakens your argument.  

I have to wonder if you would hold the same opinion of these buildings if you were not fond of the businesses that currently exist in them.  Honest question, what if instead of Smelly Cat that building was home to an ambulance chasing lawyer or a political group of the party you don't support?  Would you hold the same position?  

The reason I wonder is, using the building where Smelly Cat Coffeehouse is located, absent of the building you have a prime location and a horrible use.  There is zero architectural significance to the structure as well.  The business itself is awesome, and while the location they have is prime, it does nothing to contribute to their awesome business.  After all, bad businesses fail in the best locations.  

 

[SgtCampsalot]

Truth. Let's just agree to do what we think is right.

It would be cool if they kept the corner boulder and bulletin boards and those grown trees there. Maybe an innovative bloke could keep the smelly cat facade for whatever would go in that new space. That would be interesting to see. Like just trying to maintain the sidewalk experience a bit.

[cjd5050]

15 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Truth. Let's just agree to do what we think is right.

It would be cool if they kept the corner boulder and bulletin boards and those grown trees there. Maybe an innovative bloke could keep the smelly cat facade for whatever would go in that new space. That would be interesting to see. Like just trying to maintain the sidewalk experience a bit.

I actually think the sidewalk experience is poor right now for that corner.   I would love to see a curved patio that opens to the street that fronts the entire parcel.  Parking in the back and 2nd/3rd floor housing.  

That area of town really has the potential to evolve to something similar to the Gaslamp in San Diego.  Has a ways to go in terms of opening up to the street but I think it can get there.  

[UrbanGossip]

On 9/24/2016 at 8:57 AM, SgtCampsalot said:

Right I really do hear you. But only looking at whether something is free market/ privately owned land is still considering the one over the many. And while it is subjective, there is still an objectivity in everyone's heart that knows when something has a wrongness to it. Surely you understand what I'm talking about.

Yes, I do understand you.  When I lived in NoDa Smelly Cat was a daily visit and I lost consistently at Wednesday night trivia at revolution, so it does pain me to hear there's potential for it to be gone.  But I see it as inevitable when something like the LRL comes through a neighborhood like NoDa.  Like ensuing posts discussed, if we want things like the LRL to happen, we have to be ready for redevelopment like this once the big empty parking lots and warehouses are gone.  That's the whole point of TOD - to get back some of the investment in higher densities and tax revenue.  My point would be that it's not right or wrong, just up or down, left or right, ying or yang.  The right and wrong happens when it get's redeveloped.

[SgtCampsalot]

1 hour ago, UrbanGossip said:

Yes, I do understand you.  When I lived in NoDa Smelly Cat was a daily visit and I lost consistently at Wednesday night trivia at revolution, so it does pain me to hear there's potential for it to be gone.  But I see it as inevitable when something like the LRL comes through a neighborhood like NoDa.  Like ensuing posts discussed, if we want things like the LRL to happen, we have to be ready for redevelopment like this once the big empty parking lots and warehouses are gone.  That's the whole point of TOD - to get back some of the investment in higher densities and tax revenue.  My point would be that it's not right or wrong, just up or down, left or right, ying or yang.  The right and wrong happens when it get's redeveloped.

You make good point extending from what CJ said. Yeah.

1 hour ago, cjd5050 said:

I actually think the sidewalk experience is poor right now for that corner.   I would love to see a curved patio that opens to the street that fronts the entire parcel.  Parking in the back and 2nd/3rd floor housing.  

You're right. But I personally think what's lacking on the main corner is what's being provided by the Revolution house. It's big, bulky, and dead space, and is kind of wasting its potential. But what is valuable IMO is the boulder on the corner people sit and perform on, the bulletin boards next to it, and the several grown trees that provide great shade. I think if they could incorporate those things (I know the trees would be tough, what with root systems getting damaged, etc) into any future plaza or retail space, it would be a home run. 

[KJHburg]

Just back from Vegas and saw this and it would be great for NoDa or somewhere along the North Statesville/Graham corridor. It is called the Downtown Container Park off Fremont St a blocks from the heart of downtown Vegas. All containers used for restaurants, bars, small owner shops, a stage for bands, a huge playground. Here are some of my photos and that have this huge metal dragon that breathes fire (from propane tanks)  This would be a great addition in Charlotte and NoDa would be the perfect location. Here is their webpage http://downtowncontainerpark.com/  Sorry for so many photos but this would be great in Charlotte and I wanted you to get a sense of the place. It is a daytime hangout even in the desert heat and a big nightspot too with the concerts etc. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Just back from Vegas and saw this and it would be great for NoDa or somewhere along the North Statesville/Graham corridor. It is called the Downtown Container Park off Fremont St a blocks from the heart of downtown Vegas. All containers used for restaurants, bars, small owner shops, a stage for bands, a huge playground. Here are some of my photos and that have this huge metal dragon that breathes fire (from propane tanks)  This would be a great addition in Charlotte and NoDa would be the perfect location. Here is their webpage http://downtowncontainerpark.com/  Sorry for so many photos but this would be great in Charlotte and I wanted you to get a sense of the place. It is a daytime hangout even in the desert heat and a big nightspot too with the concerts etc. 

That place is actually owned by the CEO of Zappos. He lives in a Tiny Home on his own Alpaca farm behind it. My wife and I hung out with him at his tiny home. Pretty cool guy. Love that place. 

[KJHburg]

36th Street and new Crescent NoDa apartments and the Sugar Creek LYNX station underway first picture. Today. 

[atlrvr]

These, I believe, are the latest renderings for the large field at Jordan/Davidson St (part of the Chadbourn Mill project)

 

And here is partial demolition/renovation of the actual existing mill building into office space, being marketed as The Hoisery.

[CLTProductions]

47 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

These, I believe, are the latest renderings for the large field at Jordan/Davidson St (part of the Chadbourn Mill project)

 

And here is partial demolition/renovation of the actual existing mill building into office space, being marketed as The Hoisery.

Dang these are out there? I've been sitting on these a while but I was told a while back Faison is rethinking the entire project since these were created

[jtmonk]

When you say "rethinking", do you mean they may not build at all or do they plan to redesign the entire project?

[CLTProductions]

12 minutes ago, jtmonk said:

When you say "rethinking", do you mean they may not build at all or do they plan to redesign the entire project?

Perhaps both. This is a brownfield site now sooooo it's a bit delayed