NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[tozmervo]

17 hours ago, sakami said:

Just got notice from the city that 36th St will re-open on Wednesday, October 31st at 5 pm!!! The notice includes the standard wording about weather  conditions and availability of local crews but still, potentially good news. 

Like the old saying goes, tenth time is the charm.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Next up, Sugar Creek!

[kermit]

16 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Next up, Sugar Creek!

And judging by the work trucks that are up on the new overpass and the state of completion of what is visible from the ground I would guess it won’t  be long.

[kermit]

Trader Joe’s, is that you?

 

[CLTranspo]

Pics from crown station and station house near the sugar creek light rail station. Nice little area as noda extends southward - just needs some sidewalk infrastructure improvements. 

[UPNoDa]

^Guess CATS wanted to mimic our beloved water tower on 37th street as the I-Beam bridge spine structure continues to sport it's oxidized look. 

[AP3]

This area has so much potential and hopefully the Station House spearheads the development.  Anyone else heard of land use rumors in the area?  I think a couple apartment complexes (with ample retail) and more town homes clustered by the Sugar Creek Station would be a no brainer.  I also think this area would be good for an additional grocery store.

 

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, AP3 said:

This area has so much potential and hopefully the Station House spearheads the development.  Anyone else heard of land use rumors in the area?  I think a couple apartment complexes (with ample retail) and more town homes clustered by the Sugar Creek Station would be a no brainer.  I also think this area would be good for an additional grocery store.

 

Probably hard to develop to the east of N Davidson there because the railroad line is supposed to branch that way in the future. 

[Guest]

https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/2gAvVRw0BXAv07PJhWFXM200U70YKEGkw97eneCDjQY/document.pdf

Like i been saying forever, Fly Wheel is a marketing company pretending to be a development company. They are basically selling the opportunity to develop their already permitted/approved project.

[atlrvr]

While I understand that criticism, I think that's a bit unfair.  There are various risks in the development process, and pre-development (convincing multiple unrelated sellers to all sell at reasonable prices, environmental surveys, land use entitlements and permits) requires, spending a decent amount of money upfront for the risk one of those variables doesn't come together.  This is quite different than development construction risk.

Having different developers handle different stages and then transfer the risk, is far more efficient, especially for more complex projects.

I think instead of calling them a marketing company (which implies riskless fee collection) I would call Flywheel primarily a land development company instead of a full life-cycle development firm.

At the risk of offending some developers, I think this provides a valuable service as it can "de-risk" some complicated or unique projects.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

While I understand that criticism, I think that's a bit unfair.  There are various risks in the development process, and pre-development (convincing multiple unrelated sellers to all sell at reasonable prices, environmental surveys, land use entitlements and permits) requires, spending a decent amount of money upfront for the risk one of those variables doesn't come together.  This is quite different than development construction risk.

Having different developers handle different stages and then transfer the risk, is far more efficient, especially for more complex projects.

I think instead of calling them a marketing company (which implies riskless fee collection) I would call Flywheel primarily a land development company instead of a full life-cycle development firm.

At the risk of offending some developers, I think this provides a valuable service as it can "de-risk" some complicated or unique projects.

I never said anything was wrong with that model. They are very savvy in their approach. 

[11 HouseBZ]

NoDa Warehouse District or NoWare, my SoDaSoPa hipster/millennial name for the area lol. 

[Desert Power]

40 minutes ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

NoDa Warehouse District or NoWare, my SoDaSoPa hipster/millennial name for the area lol. 

No

[Matthew.Brendan]

5 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Probably hard to develop to the east of N Davidson there because the railroad line is supposed to branch that way in the future. 

What railroad line is that? First I’ve heard...

[Desert Power]

4 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

What railroad line is that? First I’ve heard...

I'm sure better posters than me can find a link, but they are planning to remove the line that crosses North Davidson just past the Dog Bar and replace it with a line through this NoDa warehouse district that connects to the Eastbond line.  I've seen some diagrams here that have it cutting through this warehouse district just above Divine Barrel (a favorite of mine) across to the line

[KJHburg]

There was a better map posted but here it is Project #47 on page 27 of this pdf

http://charlottenc.gov/Projects/Documents/CharlotteRailroadProjectsUpdate.pdf    

[kermit]

here is another with a bit more detail, there is another upthread which shows parcels and building outlines but I can't lay my hands on it.  From http://www.crtpo.org/PDFs/Rail/CRISP.pdf

I did look closely at the parcels a few months ago. IIRC it will take out the the rehearsals building and/or the Inland Seafood building. It should pass under N Davidson (see note in map "in cut"), the map says that the Atmore crossing will be separated, although it will need to be a pretty deep trench to run the rail under. I don't have enough sense of the trench size to be able to speak to reconnecting Essex and Sweetbrier to the grid. Regardless how they handle it, the new ACWR is going to be a pretty big pedestrian booger in EaSoNoDa and its gonna take out three or four of the 50s era warehouses.

I have no idea how they will connect the old ROW (shaded grey on map) to the North end of the CrossCounty Trail (also part of the plan).

PS: I don't believe any of these projects has any funding yet (and the ACWR certainly aint gonna pay for it)

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by kermit

[SgtCampsalot]

10 hours ago, kermit said:

here is another with a bit more detail, there is another upthread which shows parcels and building outlines but I can't lay my hands on it.  From http://www.crtpo.org/PDFs/Rail/CRISP.pdf

I did look closely at the parcels a few months ago. IIRC it will take out the the rehearsals building and/or the Inland Seafood building. It should pass under N Davidson (see note in map "in cut"), the map says that the Atmore crossing will be separated, although it will need to be a pretty deep trench to run the rail under. I don't have enough sense of the trench size to be able to speak to reconnecting Essex and Sweetbrier to the grid. Regardless how they handle it, the new ACWR is going to be a pretty big pedestrian booger in EaSoNoDa and its gonna take out three or four of the 50s era warehouses.

I have no idea how they will connect the old ROW (shaded grey on map) to the North end of the CrossCounty Trail (also part of the plan).

PS: I don't believe any of these projects has any funding yet (and the ACWR certainly aint gonna pay for it)

Refresh my memory: is this essentially an inevitable project, but with a completely theoretical completion date? Or could it peter out over decades? 

I know RR companies think in terms of decades rather than months or years.

[kermit]

25 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Refresh my memory: is this essentially an inevitable project, but with a completely theoretical completion date? Or could it peter out over decades? 

I know RR companies think in terms of decades rather than months or years.

I think its inevitable, but complicated. The RR (ACWR) that owns the track in question is content w the status quo becuase they run well less than one train a day. However the city would very much like the NoDa tracks gone and NS / NCRR would like the track relocated because it will make yard operations a bit more efficient.  Unfortunately none of this is urgent for NS / NCRR and its gonna be too much $$$ for the city to pay.  Potential EaSoNoDa developers also need it to happen soon (the uncertanty is holding the area back)  but they have no real influence in the RR world.

The one thing that makes it inevitable is the federal government has a strong track record of throwing money at shortline RRs (the ACWR) for improvements like this (unlike transit).  But I suspect it will take some token matching funds from the ACWR, and I am not sure they have that kind of money in the bank. Alternatively it might get paid for by NCDOT / NCRR but they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

The last wild card here is that the ACWR is not a stellar business, they have to maintain lots of track for the small amount of freight they carry. I would not be surprised to see a bankruptcy and perhaps some abandonment in the next few years. IMO it is an interesting passenger corridor (if the city wants to lead development)  out to Locust for diesel motive units, ACWR would certainly welcome the income from that if CATS would pay the track maintance and upgrades costs.

[11 HouseBZ]

21 hours ago, Desert Power said:

No

Then you're [not] going [to] NOOOOOWAAAARE!

 

[SouthEndCLT811]

Charlotte city web site seems to be down and I haven't seen CATS make mention but does it look like 36th street is on track to open next week? 

[kermit]

2 minutes ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Charlotte city web site seems to be down and I haven't seen CATS make mention but does it look like 36th street is on track to open next week? 

Yup (based on the view from the BLE). One more layer of pavement and some lighting and it will (appear to) be done.

[UPNoDa]

Great,  now maybe they can focus on Sugar Creek.

 

[kermit]

 

[KJHburg]

Hallelujah about time.  As someone said in another thread the Monroe Bypass toll road was built in the same time.