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NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects


uptownliving

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1 hour ago, kermit said:

I dunno, sounds like some developer whining to me. I don't think there are any serious grading issues (see below). Even if there are, they can still connect directly to the 36th street station sidewalk which is one of only two the entrances to the station. There are also going to be a ton of pedestrians under the bridge  as soon as Amelies (and other stuff) opens on the other side of the tracks.  Past experience w retail over there will have no relation to future experience.

It seems crazy to me that parcels directly adjacent to a station are not required to have 100% ground floor retail. I assume the parcel is currently TOD, was the lack of a retail requirement in that designation an oversight?

image.thumb.png.25c4ffac3e818e71dcc40f205a808fcd.png

 

for evidence of grading issues see directly across the street. 

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Just now, kermit said:

Help me understand this, why do they need to do that much elevation on the other side?

I mean its definitely possible, they would need to probably create an elevated common area, with stairs that taper toward N. Davidson, but honestly they are trying to do this as efficiently as possible, in order to leverage/facilitate the historic adaptive reuse behind. I've seen a few other renderings of this project that suggest a nicer streetscape than whats depicted in these renderings.

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4 hours ago, Tyree Ricardo said:

I mean its definitely possible, they would need to probably create an elevated common area, with stairs that taper toward N. Davidson, but honestly they are trying to do this as efficiently as possible, in order to leverage/facilitate the historic adaptive reuse behind. I've seen a few other renderings of this project that suggest a nicer streetscape than whats depicted in these renderings.

Yea, the desire to be 'efficient' has fudgeed up more Charlotte redevelopments than I can count -- I am not sure a developer wanting to conserve capital is worth the sacrifice of wasting the best remaining parcel in the hottest neighborhood in Charlotte. Johnston Mill is a huge opportunity, other developers will come. The kicker here is the ACWR tracks are planned to converted into a rail-trail style greenway which will provide great access to the NoDa side of this building. Granted, the rail-relocation project is waiting on federal funds, but it is in the plans. Nothing horrifies me more about this city than its ability to ignore its own plans. Charlotte talks the talk, but we seem to never walk the walk.

Even with grade separation, this site has the same, or better retail potential as across the street. Building something that is dead at ground-level here is yet another failure to make the area around our new billion dollar transit line more walkable. This parcel is shockingly similar to Atherton Mill in terms of its retail potential.

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58 minutes ago, kermit said:

Yea, the desire to be 'efficient' has fudgeed up more Charlotte redevelopments than I can count -- I am not sure a developer wanting to conserve capital is worth the sacrifice of wasting the best remaining parcel in the hottest neighborhood in Charlotte. Johnston Mill is a huge opportunity, other developers will come. The kicker here is the ACWR tracks are planned to converted into a rail-trail style greenway which will provide great access to the NoDa side of this building. Granted, the rail-relocation project is waiting on federal funds, but it is in the plans. Nothing horrifies me more about this city than its ability to ignore its own plans. Charlotte talks the talk, but we seem to never walk the walk.

Even with grade separation, this site has the same, or better retail potential as across the street. Building something that is dead at ground-level here is yet another failure to make the area around our new billion dollar transit line more walkable. This parcel is shockingly similar to Atherton Mill in terms of its retail potential.

T"his parcel is shockingly similar to Atherton Mill in terms of its retail potential."

I think the greatest potential in NoDa will lie between NoDa and Sugar Creek, and across the tracks. I think anywhere in NoDa is 10 years away from being anywhere close to Atherton Potential. 

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9 hours ago, CLT704 said:

Get ready for some great photos of construction from yours truly! 

 

I'm happy to see the mill resued, I would like to see a bloody grocery store in NoDa though!!

Seriously, what ever happened to the rumors of something going in the old Amelie's building? A grocery store would be perfect for the Buck's Oil site with all of the new apartments going in at the corner of N Davidson and Jordan and all of the new homes in Villa Heights & NoDa

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14 hours ago, kermit said:

Help me understand this, why do they need to do that much elevation on the other side?

I have no idea what @Tyree Ricardo is talking about difficulty grading.. They even show the 36th street rendering sloping downwards like it currently is. Sounds like another cheap stick apartment building to me

19 hours ago, tarwater said:

Renderings of the new building. The ground level looks more like residential than retail?

noda mill new building render.png

 

9 hours ago, Tyree Ricardo said:

T"his parcel is shockingly similar to Atherton Mill in terms of its retail potential."

I think the greatest potential in NoDa will lie between NoDa and Sugar Creek, and across the tracks. I think anywhere in NoDa is 10 years away from being anywhere close to Atherton Potential. 

Yes BLE is 10 years behind the original blue line which sparked the growth in SouthEnd, but I would think this side would happen quicker with the growth in Charlotte over the last 10 years. I'm hopeful we skip the first wave of cheap apartments everywhere like the original SouthEnd and go right to the better development projects that are happening currently. 

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10 hours ago, kermit said:

Even with grade separation, this site has the same, or better retail potential as across the street. Building something that is dead at ground-level here is yet another failure to make the area around our new billion dollar transit line more walkable. This parcel is shockingly similar to Atherton Mill in terms of its retail potential.

It's not at all. Retail is about demographics and NoDa just doesn't have them. Dilworth and Myers Park are within the 15 minute drive time radius of Atherton, not to mention the population density differences and interstate access in South End that NoDa just doesn't have. NoDa can't ever be what South End is for those reasons. I love the neighborhood, but from a retail perspective, the demographics will always make it inferior to South End.

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Not to be a Pollyanna--actually, *totally* to be a Pollyanna--the silver lining to this lack of street level retail in the new building is that no new businesses by the Lynx station can leech activity and revenue from the existing businesses on Davidson and 36th...

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23 minutes ago, ertley said:

Not to be a Pollyanna--actually, *totally* to be a Pollyanna--the silver lining to this lack of street level retail in the new building is that no new businesses by the Lynx station can leech activity and revenue from the existing businesses on Davidson and 36th...

Truly. Thank you. I'd rather people keep building out the old mill buildings on N. Davidson into retail, than line this with shops on YES A DIFFICULT GRADE STREET. I don't understand why I'm getting push back on that, its obvious in the renderings.

1 hour ago, Prodev said:

It's not at all. Retail is about demographics and NoDa just doesn't have them. Dilworth and Myers Park are within the 15 minute drive time radius of Atherton, not to mention the population density differences and interstate access in South End that NoDa just doesn't have. NoDa can't ever be what South End is for those reasons. I love the neighborhood, but from a retail perspective, the demographics will always make it inferior to South End.

thank you! not to mention 36th is no South Blvd. There will be retail on 36th its just going to grow organically, not every single building will have retail starting out.

1 hour ago, JHart said:

Seriously, what ever happened to the rumors of something going in the old Amelie's building? A grocery store would be perfect for the Buck's Oil site with all of the new apartments going in at the corner of N Davidson and Jordan and all of the new homes in Villa Heights & NoDa

Before the pandemic Aston Properties was going to partner with Avery Hall, a prolific multifamily developer in Brooklyn to create a mixed use grocery anchored center on 36th and N. Davidson beside Amelies. Not sure the status.

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1 hour ago, Prodev said:

It's not at all. Retail is about demographics and NoDa just doesn't have them. Dilworth and Myers Park are within the 15 minute drive time radius of Atherton, not to mention the population density differences and interstate access in South End that NoDa just doesn't have. NoDa can't ever be what South End is for those reasons. I love the neighborhood, but from a retail perspective, the demographics will always make it inferior to South End.

Yeah, I find these differences often overlooked. I also don't think NoDa should strive to be like South End, but I'm biased. I can see a possible future where North Tryon beneath Sugar Creek develops enough that Atherton type of developments make sesne....but those areas are a LONG way off.

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1 hour ago, Desert Power said:

Yeah, I find these differences often overlooked. I also don't think NoDa should strive to be like South End, but I'm biased. I can see a possible future where North Tryon beneath Sugar Creek develops enough that Atherton type of developments make sesne....but those areas are a LONG way off.

I think if any of Tony Kuhns plans happen that future is sooner than you think. But the neighborhood will never catch up to to Dilworth with buying power.

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39 minutes ago, kermit said:

But it doesn't need to catch up to Dilworth, buying power doesn't need to be great in NoDa if the retail focuses on food and drinks for the wanna-be hipster demographic. The area also generates lots of destination traffic ('look honey, $4 doughnuts through a hole in the wall, its so folksy...'), and would get even more of these gawking suburbanites if there was more retail to serve them once they arrive.

I also don't get the fears of building too much retail in the neighborhood. We all know that entertainment-based retail works best where there is critical mass, more options means more shoppers. A couple new restaurants over here (and a gallery or two?) would generate more foot traffic for the other retailers in the hood.

This part of NoDa really is Southend from 10 years ago (admittedly without the high income stuff around the edges, but NoDa, Villa Heights and Optimist Park are changing quickly and I can no longer afford PM not much further away). I'll climb down off my soapbox shortly, but it really steams my piss to see this parcel be nothing more than stick built apartments for 25+ years. This is a Camden Gallery'ish quality spot.

In five years all of us are going to be complaining about NoDa being nothing more than stick built multi-family  -- ground floor retail on this parcel  was the best opportunity to limit the inevitable Southendification. 

"This is a Camden Gallery'ish quality spot." 

Camden Gallery is on a flat street. I actually just walked the site with a NoDa Neighborhood board leader (I'm working at Industrious today), its got challenges, and businesses are struggling even pre covid to make money, and now are REALLY struggling. There just isn't rooftops over here. When the park on the cross country trail is done at the bottom of the hill, and Grubb (11 acres of residential, retail and office!) and Aston are done, all this will feel way more cohesive, and retail will be part of the transformation, just not on this pretty heavily graded site. The original plan was to have a pedestrian plaza like I was describing with around 9,000 sq feet of space but when all the retail spaces at Novel NoDa are struggling, why put in that much money into something that you'll end up losing money ono.

 

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^ That is a VERY short term market view. Why can’t developers  (or the city) see five years into the future? We already have a model for how this evolution is going to play out (its Southend). We also know the grubb project will be parking light — how many of those new residents going to be looking to 10 minute city amenities?

I surrender. To me this is a crime against urbanity, but Charlotte is constantly disapointing me in this regard. Despite that, I am done making noise, so I’ll sit quietly drinking my What She’s Having on the WR patio, wishing I could get dinner across the street before getting the train home.

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3 minutes ago, kermit said:

^ That is a VERY short term market view. Why can’t developers  (or the city) see five years into the future? We already have a model for how this evolution is going to play out (its Southend). We also know the grubb project will be parking light — how many of those new residents going to be looking to 10 minute city amenities?

I surrender. To me this is a crime against urbanity, but Charlotte is constantly disapointing me in this regard. Despite that, I am done making noise, so I’ll sit quietly drinking my What She’s Having on the WR patio, wishing I could get dinner across the street before getting the train home.

3,000 sq feet is plenty of space for a restaurant, and there is a casual Italian restaurant from Bruce Moffett coming to the corner unit at Novel Stonewall's outparcel retail building, and if you cross just under the tracks, there will be a good amount of retail at Grubb's property, and Cullman will be the next to take off especially as the park land along the XCLT trail gets under way. There is a lot that'll happen, and maybe we can get them to change up the design.

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On 7/16/2020 at 9:04 AM, CLT-704 said:

That place had to have been a front for something.  

It looks like a acai shop called Spoons is taking over.

Look inside today and can confirm it is going to be a Spoons! I'm very excited, I've seen there van around town and heard they just opened their first storefront in Southend. 

https://www.spoons.com/

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16 minutes ago, michaelef said:

Look inside today and can confirm it is going to be a Spoons! I'm very excited, I've seen there van around town and heard they just opened their first storefront in Southend. 

https://www.spoons.com/

There is a location uptown by Tilt and Solis Southend has their 2nd location, I believe this will be 3rd. Randy Moss is an investor and they got TONS of money behind them

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29 minutes ago, Jt282506 said:

There is a location uptown by Tilt and Solis Southend has their 2nd location, I believe this will be 3rd. Randy Moss is an investor and they got TONS of money behind them

Was going to say, amazing domain name for something that's only in Charlotte

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