NoDa (N Davidson St Arts District) Projects

[Guest]

That picture makes me sick.  I would like to think that some day this type of architecture will make a return, but I wonder if such architecture will ever be fashionable again.  I am beginning to see some trend toward a neo-brutalism, if I may use the term, in modern architecture; however I have seen no return to the late nineteenth/early twentieth century architecture.  Is it just too cost prohibitive?

Bingo. Those kind of craftsmen are few and far between, plus extremely expensive. So we will never see large scale projects like that ever again.

[ah59396]

You never know.  We could always enter some sort of classical renaissance like golden age at some point during the 21st century.  Where quality trumps cost and people see beyond the cost of things and instead towards the val...ahhh who the hell am I kidding...

[ah59396]

Ely sat down with Crescent and has a great article on their upcoming developments.  What stuck out to me in particular was the following:

 

So what worries Leary about the apartment boom? Quality. While Leary said the number of apartments isn’t a problem, he said builders need to be wary of cutting standards to get buildings done.

“I would be worried about the quality of what’s getting built,” said Leary. “When there’s a race to take advantage of the market, building to take advantage of trends, you get a bit more in a commodity mode over a quality mode.”

Leary said Crescent is putting high-quality finishes in its new projects, such as granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances, and building them to a standard of “condo-ready.”

“We think it’s a quality issue people will pay for, and they are,” he said.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article15467459.html#storylink=cpy

 

 

Good to see at least one developer thinks like we do.  The full article is great, sounds like Tryon Place is still full steam ahead.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article15467459.html#/tabPane=tabs-b0710947-1-1

[Guest]

The question is how expensive would it be to build such elegant and ornate sidings like the origional Mercury NoDa designs? Certainly alot for an entire line of apartments.

 

I would just cut details in the apartments and then double down on a nicer looking small shop to attract people. Are there any examples of handsome little shops downtown?

[dubone]

At some point, the question should be asked what does it cost them to NOT build to a memorable or unique design.

 

If these midrise apartments are become commodities with little differentiation or character. 

 

 

Since Lee Kuan Yew died today, my mind is on the Housing Development Board block housing flats ubiquitous in Singapore.  It was literally the commoditization and partial subsidization of housing for all citizens except for the wealthiest.   Originally, the only differentiation was in paint color.  But they have slowly learned to add design differentiation to add to the sense of community and significance of place.  

 

So from this

to this:

to now this:

 

 

 

(There is a whole world of intrigue for urban planning geeks to review the Singapore HDB Estates history and how it allowed Singapore to build a city-state that can comfortably have some of the highest population density in the planet, but provide a very high quality of life and comfort.)   

 

 

 

 

Back to reality / topic, it would seem to be a solid business idea to keep the appearance of enough quality and interest to have it not seem like a basic boring building or people not renew their leases.  I realize it is just building housing units, but it will have a long term impact if something isn't done to keep them from all looking identical. 

[go_vertical]

So it's inevitable that in a few years we'll start to see some apartment to condo conversions. What are the chances that at least some of these bland, boring boxes get minor updates as that starts to happen? Nothing groundbreaking, just some exterior embellishments to liven things up a bit. Do exterior improvements ever happen when conversions are going on?

[UrbanGossip]

Pretty much never - at least not beyond paint.  Fat City lofts are going condo right now but I doubt anything will change beyond some minor upgrades to the interior.  Of course they were originally conceived as condo's anyway so maybe that's not the best example.  But candidates for conversion are those housing projects that are performing well already and don't need a ton of investment to make the conversion.  Exterior upgrades would be a ton of investment over just interior finishes.

[archiham04]

That picture makes me sick.  I would like to think that some day this type of architecture will make a return, but I wonder if such architecture will ever be fashionable again.  I am beginning to see some trend toward a neo-brutalism, if I may use the term, in modern architecture; however I have seen no return to the late nineteenth/early twentieth century architecture.  Is it just too cost prohibitive? 

The other thing about the cost of these buildings is that building technology has changed... back in the day you had to bulid a pretty massive structure to hold up a fireproof 6 story building.  Once you built that, you were in it pretty deep... adding some brick detailing or clading with stucco or limestone was less of a deviation in price.  Today the basic 6 story building can be done much more efficiently so adding embellishments hits the bottom line much harder.

[tozmervo]

Pretty much never - at least not beyond paint.  Fat City lofts are going condo right now but I doubt anything will change beyond some minor upgrades to the interior.  Of course they were originally conceived as condo's anyway so maybe that's not the best example.  But candidates for conversion are those housing projects that are performing well already and don't need a ton of investment to make the conversion.  Exterior upgrades would be a ton of investment over just interior finishes.

 

I think they've been trying to go condo for years now - I remember looking at a unit for sale two years ago. Also worth mentioning: the exterior of Fat City looks awful, it's badly in need of repair and refinish.

[CLTProductions]

In the same question I posed for Plaza, is anything being done to designate N Davidson in the heart of NoDa a Historic District to prevent cannibalization by developers? And at the very least, AT LEAST the area from Brevard to like 37th St?

[tozmervo]

It's been loosely talked about, but there's not a lot of appetite for it regarding the commercial areas, largely because there's not a specific aesthetic being protected. There's more fear about the residential areas (along yadkin, for example) being subject to tear-down pressures. 

[CLTProductions]

It's been loosely talked about, but there's not a lot of appetite for it regarding the commercial areas, largely because there's not a specific aesthetic being protected. There's more fear about the residential areas (along yadkin, for example) being subject to tear-down pressures. 

I am just more concerned about the stuff right along Davidson basically in the heart (Cabo Fish Taco and beyond). I just hope they're able to maintain themselves.

[UrbanGossip]

In the same question I posed for Plaza, is anything being done to designate N Davidson in the heart of NoDa a Historic District to prevent cannibalization by developers? And at the very least, AT LEAST the area from Brevard to like 37th St?

 

If you look at the buildings along Davidson in the CBD, there are really only a few that are historical.  Probably half of them are actually new or completely redone on the exterior, though they are designed in a way to fit nicely with the existing.  There isn't much history to protect really in the CBD.  And where do you draw the line since so many of the buildings are certainly new since the original Trolley Car suburb / cotton mill  days?  Historic designations like to see a critical mass of structures that are from the historic epoch that is to be protected.  NoDa is a mishmash of structures built over the last century.  Even with the housing stock there aren't a ton of original, untouched mill houses left.  In cases like this it is individual structures that need to be designated, which has been done for a number.  You can find them on the HLC website :

 

http://www.cmhpf.org/

 

 

And frankly, historic designations can backfire with trendy neighborhoods like this.  For instance, it it were designated historic, you likely wouldn't see the murals, colors, funkiness, we see around the neighborhood now.

[tozmervo]

^a much better way of saying "there's not a specific aesthetic being protected"

 

In all seriousness, though, I think NoDa is a prime example of why form-based codes are making inroads. What I hear most in NoDa meeting's is a defense of form (no superblocks, maintain open street fronts, etc). While I don't think anyone wants to see a vinyl sided POS go up, aesthetics aren't the driving force.

[CLTProductions]

Fair enough and great information. I just was more or less concerned with NoDa (and Plaza's) character and NoDa going the way of South End and becoming a cookie cutter shell of characterless massive developments.

[UrbanGossip]

Yeah I guess I did basically say what you said with a lot more words!  LOL.

 

Great term by the way Toz.  Defense of form.  Haven't heard that one since school.  Exactly the approach areas like these should take.

[Spartan]

Bingo. Those kind of craftsmen are few and far between, plus extremely expensive. So we will never see large scale projects like that ever again.

 

 

You never know.  We could always enter some sort of classical renaissance like golden age at some point during the 21st century.  Where quality trumps cost and people see beyond the cost of things and instead towards the val...ahhh who the hell am I kidding...

 

My dream is that the City Beautiful Movement will be reborn some day. 

 

FWIW, Charleston still gets buildings like that. Granted they are on a different level when it comes to historic preservation and context - but if it can be done in one place it can be done anywhere.

[UPNoDa]

Hey everyone....looks like Mercury NoDa might have read our complaints on fb  because they are now doing some paint testing on the Mercury Street side of the project.

Have a pic, but cannot post due to no pic hosting site yet.

[CLTProductions]

Hey everyone....looks like Mercury NoDa might have read our complaints on fb  because they are now doing some paint testing on the Mercury Street side of the project.

Have a pic, but cannot post due to no pic hosting site yet.

Wow, well that is certainly awesome if they do it right.

[southslider]

You mean folks seeking to live in the arts district aren't huge fans of beige?

[InitialD]

Have a pic, but cannot post due to no pic hosting site yet.

http://imgur.com is free.

[UPNoDa]

 

Hey everyone,  here is the pic from Mercury NoDa

[CLTProductions]

Mango's Western Caribbean Restaurant and Bar will be going into the loooooooooong vacant beige brick building adjacent to Tasty Yo and Crepe Cellar. They just got their building permit for the refurb on Friday.

 

This is a minor project for the neighborhood but will continue to push the street life further south along Davidson.

Does anyone have an update on this place?? I can't imagine it takes a year to make a Caribbean Restaurant and Bar??? Unless they had a lot of work to do, but they have literally 0 social media presence. 

[CLTProductions]

Yay!

 

City Council approved a petition by Crescent Communities to rezone 7 acres at North Davidson and 36th streets to allow Crescent to build an upscale mixed-use complex that could include a hotel, grocery store and apartment complex.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article19097085.html?hootPostID=032524b4c26ea90f5f6a5bc7c4aa2be1#storylink=cpy

[UPNoDa]

PUBLIX PLEASE !!