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Gaslight Village - East Grand Rapids

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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The other question is the other side of the coin. I am not sure how much retail is in the new development, but how much can EGR support? It seems they have more than the can support currently, especially because much of it is more boutique kind of stuff. Will this new retail be destination kind of things?

As far as the general NU retail comments, it is true that in many, many cases the retail has not gone the way that it was planned. Cherry Hill is failing. Kentlands retail went suburban, Seaside took many years to develop, Laguna Beach proposed retail went somewhere else (I think that is still true).

Well, so far, it looks like there is a "spice store", a Jude's Barbershop, a "photo gallery", a cosmetics store, room for a restaurant, a bank (can't remember which one, but on the end in the old bank facade), a couple of other bays still available.

http://www.gaslight-village.com/commercial/index.html

No destination retail that I can see.

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civitas Burg

civitas

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Well, so far, it looks like there is a "spice store", a Jude's Barbershop, a "photo gallery", a cosmetics store, room for a restaurant, a bank (can't remember which one, but on the end in the old bank facade), a couple of other bays still available.

http://www.gaslight-village.com/commercial/index.html

No destination retail that I can see.

I would think that the spice store, barbershop, photo gallery and cosmetics store are all "destination" stores (as opposed to "impulse" stores).

I don't know about the retail in Cherry Hill, but Kentlands and Laguna Beach were early NU projects with the commercial located within the development (away from the existing road network). The retail struggled as a result. Most new projects locate the retail near existing major roads for visibilty and accessibility. The last time I was at Seaside the retail seemed fairly healthy. It is on the highway and caters mostly to vacation traffic.

GLV is not "new" urbanism. It is existing urbanism, has always been EGR's downtown and should benefit from that history.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I would think that the spice store, barbershop, photo gallery and cosmetics store are all "destination" stores (as opposed to "impulse" stores).

I don't know about the retail in Cherry Hill, but Kentlands and Laguna Beach were early NU projects with the commercial located within the development (away from the existing road network). The retail struggled as a result. Most new projects locate the retail near existing major roads for visibilty and accessibility. The last time I was at Seaside the retail seemed fairly healthy. It is on the highway and caters mostly to vacation traffic.

GLV is not "new" urbanism. It is existing urbanism, has always been EGR's downtown and should benefit from that history.

Hmm, I guess I thought of those as "neighborhood" retail and not "destination", but I'm no expert, so I might be getting my terminology mixed up.

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Mark Miller Whistle-Stop

Mark Miller

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Whatever you want to call the spice store, the barber shop, the cosmetics store is fine. The point would be, are people from places other than EGR going to come to them, buy things and make them successful? I suggest that if these stores do not draw from a larger area, they may well not survive. I personally am not going to EGR to get a hair cut or go to a spice store. I remember the mountain outfitter store on Wealthy that went under about a year ago. It was a cool concept, but how many people in the region climb mountains and more importantly when looking for camping or outdoor gear, where were they going, most likely to Bill and Pauls.

Another "NU" development that is close by is Howell Town Commons. Off from a state highway, its retail is still struggling. There is an excellent little store there called the Purple Mushroom, which has struggled to maintain business. Maybe things have picked up in the last year, but last time I talked to the guy he was still struggling. The developer was subsidizing rents for these businesses at that time, just to keep retail in place. Certainly not a sustainable situation. This development has some exposure, was designed by the "retail experts of NU", is beginning to get a mass of rooftops, has traffic going by it and is still struggling. The debris field off from the highway interchange, however, is doing just fine. Maybe a no-brainer there.

As far as GLV not being NU, please elaborate on that.

The Charter of the New Urbanism deals with mutiple levels from Region to Neighborhood to Building.

The following is clipped from the portion of the charter that deals with the Block, Street and Building. Many of these describe what is happening in EGR.

1. A primary task of all urban architecture and landscape design is the physical definition of streets and public spaces as places of shared use.

2. Individual architectural projects should be seamlessly linked to their surroundings. This issue transcends style.

3. The revitalization of urban places depends on safety and security. The design of streets and buildings should reinforce safe environments, but not at the expense of accessibility and openness.

4. In the contemporary metropolis, development must adequately accommodate automobiles. It should do so in ways that respect the pedestrian and the form of public space.

5. Streets and squares should be safe, comfortable, and interesting to the pedestrian. Properly configured, they encourage walking and enable neighbors to know each other and protect their communities.

6. Architecture and landscape design should grow from local climate, topography, history, and building practice.

7. Civic buildings and public gathering places require important sites to reinforce community identity and the culture of democracy. They deserve distinctive form, because their role is different from that of other buildings and places that constitute the fabric of the city.

8. All buildings should provide their inhabitants with a clear sense of location, weather and time. Natural methods of heating and cooling can be more resource-efficient than mechanical systems.

9. Preservation and renewal of historic buildings, districts, and landscapes affirm the continuity and evolution of urban society.

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civitas Burg

civitas

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As far as GLV not being NU, please elaborate on that.

EGR is what NEW urbanism is all about, but it isn't new. All I was saying is that EGR is an existing small town urban area. It is a good example of a walkable mixed-use urban area, but I always think of new urbanism as new development. It's a small point, but EGR isn't new.

Your comments about retail are correct. The typical distinction between destination retail (you go there on purpose) and impulse retail (you did not have specific plans to shop there) is different than the point you were making. Your point that these shops will likely need to have a more regional draw to succeed is correct, although the barber shops, banks, dry cleaners, etc. tend to be neighborhood businesses and may do fine in that location with only nearby EGR customers.

Sorry if I confused the matter.

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bigbobspizza Unincorporated Area

bigbobspizza

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Whatever you want to call the spice store, the barber shop, the cosmetics store is fine. The point would be, are people from places other than EGR going to come to them, buy things and make them successful? I suggest that if these stores do not draw from a larger area, they may well not survive.

I've had many conversations with friends in the business community that you really have to base your business models here on the 10,000 residents of EGR. You may be able to draw customers outside of the city, but that is the exception not the norm. I personally believe this is a great place to live and do business in and with more development hopefully more people living around it will venture in to enjoy all it has to offer.

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EGR-ARCHI Whistle-Stop

EGR-ARCHI

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Regarding the Facade that faces D&W. I look forward to when it can no longer be seen. It is very disjointed with the vacant multi colored brick panels and the addition of the cement fiber board siding. It is clear that the intent is to conceal it behind the D&W lot redevelopment and the sooner the better. Does anyone know the status of the D&W project and the additional retail? I heard that 5/3 is planning on moving up to the street front. Is it stalled because of Spartan? I attended several of the public meeting on this projects and the architects ( Rowland Design www.rowlanddesign.com out of Indiana) mentioned New Urbanisim during one of his presentations. He wanted to create a new urbanist atmosphere, but it was pointed out to him that it already exists in EGR and that if anything he was adding to it and enhancing it.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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This project is looking pretty nice. Maybe I should do another bike ride around Reed's Lake to check up on the progress myself. I assume all those "buildings" are reall just one building with various facades on different parts. If that's the case, then I'm pretty surprised and impressed that this seems to be turning out so well. Usually those types of things look really cheesey like the Cascade Meijer. Though I'm not sure I'm a fan of the blue on the wavy facade building.

In the 4th photo, is that construction worker picking that peice by himself? I thought that would be made of concrete. What is it, styrofoam?

-nb

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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In the 4th photo, is that construction worker picking that peice by himself? I thought that would be made of concrete. What is it, styrofoam?

-nb

Hate to say it, but it could be a composite material. Or it could be made of some kind of metal. It looks like they hang on those "hooks". The blue surprised me too nb.

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mpchicago Burg

mpchicago

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I think they are doing a fantastic job over there. I know they have lined up some retailers, but Jade Pig's website is still showing allot of space available. Seems that there would be a ton of national and regional retailers that would love the EGR and surrounding area demographic. Potbelly

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chicagok Crossroads

chicagok

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I think they are doing a fantastic job over there. I know they have lined up some retailers, but Jade Pig's website is still showing allot of space available. Seems that there would be a ton of national and regional retailers that would love the EGR and surrounding area demographic. Potbelly
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mpchicago Burg

mpchicago

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population density is still the problem for most national retailers. the focus should be on answering the needs of egr shoppers. a bank, a grocer, a drycleaner maybe. a pottery barn, a gap - probably not.

EGR already has that stuff, and your right there is really not a need for a Pottery Barn or a Gap. However, there are some cool up and coming folks like Potbelly's that I think would work there.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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I don't see how EGR is any less dense than the population density around the malls. Except, the malls are on major roads and draw from all over the metro area, whereas Gaslight Village isn't as easy to get to for non-locals, so they're drawing from a much smaller population base most likely. I think EGR could support some smaller national retailers though.

-nb

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twoshort Town

twoshort

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Speaking of that, Sheldon Cleaners is taking over Firehouse Grill, and wants to add a drive thru.

Is anyone else disappointed by this? I think it sucks, I was hoping for another new restaurant. Prime location for a stupid drycleaner.:(

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starrfish Whistle-Stop

starrfish

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I was just talking about the old Fire House Grill building with a friend - it's had pretty high turn over when it comes to restaurants. Perhaps a restaurant would have survived with the new development, but for whatever reason it hasn't been a lucky spot for anything food-related. It used to be a Barry Bagels, before that I can't remember what it was. Anyone remember what it was prior to that? Seems like it sat empty for a long time.

Sheldon, being a repeat type service provider, may have better luck- especially if they have a drive-through.

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BeYouLiz Whistle-Stop

BeYouLiz

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I was just talking about the old Fire House Grill building with a friend - it's had pretty high turn over when it comes to restaurants. Perhaps a restaurant would have survived with the new development, but for whatever reason it hasn't been a lucky spot for anything food-related. It used to be a Barry Bagels, before that I can't remember what it was. Anyone remember what it was prior to that? Seems like it sat empty for a long time.

Sheldon, being a repeat type service provider, may have better luck- especially if they have a drive-through.

I don't remember what was there before but I just have to say that I loved Barry Bagels!!

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