Parramore's Future: Highrise Development or No?

[aent]

When you include Full Sail, are you saying that it would then go down University? There is no hope for dense development on that road because of all of the walled subdivisions.

Research Park itself is auto centric - but that said, the express bus could easily make 1-2 stops as it would have to travel through the park as it exists 408 into the park and continues to UCF.

Mills/50 is RAPIDLY accessible via LYNX and will be included in the full northern LYMMO expansion as will Uptown. I can believe that one day 50 all the way to Baldwin will "earn" premium transit, but 436 to 434....too long a stretch of nothingness. There would transit dependent riders that would benefit and in turn slow the system down causing me to drive or even rent a carshare vehicle before taking transit to UCF. Which would be a shame.

It would be a long route regardless, if it has a pretty long stretch with no stops down university, that doesn't mean its a waste or a problem. If there's too many stops, few will use it anyways. If we could connect our higher education systems in the area via transit, I think it would do a lot for the community, a UCF/Research Park, Full Sail, Rollins College/Winter Park, UCF Downtown route could be really spark additional collaboration. I doubt its feasible though to build.

Edited February 22, 2015 by aent

[Jernigan]

Why not just take the 408?  Link 104 already connects VCC East with UCF Main Campus and LYNX Central Station which will be a short walk from downtown UCF.  Link 13 already connects Full Sail with UCF Main Campus and LYNX Central Station as well.  

 

The case could be made for eventual premium transit connecting downtown and Full Sail via Baldwin Park but I'm incredibly skeptical that it would do any good.  I don't know why we need to throw Full Sail a bone just because they decided to locate in a strip mall.  Why reward the for-profit school for making their students cross 8 lanes of traffic on a state highway?    Valencia and UCF are moving downtown,  if anyone else wants to join the collaboration party, they know where to relocate to.

[Closet_Urbanite]

I don't know if this shows Terry being cut off or not - looks like the yellow is just a zone.

 

That said - any chance that a secondary goal of splicing Parramore to promulgate development along the northern part from the stadium to 50?

Your question above suggests that our Public Representatives at City Hall are manipulating in Private the future/evolution of Parramore.

Wasn't the "splicing" of Parramore Ave into North/South part of the community input and the final Parramore Vision Plan or was it? 

Well, if the below announcement to possibly relocate the OURM homeless shelter to the corner of Terry and Anderson (the heart of the designated Parramore Historical/Cultural District) is any indication, the Parramore Vision plan isn't exactly being followed. This move makes no sense considering the Orlando Magic are going to invest $200M for an entertainment complex and Orlando City Soccer Club is spending $155M+ for the stadium and adjacent land.  A second homeless shelter (in addition to the Coalition for the Homeless on Central) will be within 200 yards of these investments. This was to be the location of the South Street Mixed-Use catalyst site across the street from the Wells Built African History Museum...with a residential element.

Who in their right mind would risk raising their kids or put their business next to a Homeless Shelter...unless they plan on removing the residential element and changing the zoning to commercial/office use. I can't believe the Orlando Magic or the Orlando City SC would be secure about their investments or happy about another homeless shelter so close to them.  That whole section east of Parramore between South and Anderson should be an extension of the Entertainment District by adding hotels/restaurants/retail or even a Casino. Wasn't that area the site of a Casino/Hotel at one time?

Orlando homeless shelter's search for new site shifts to Parramore

Displaced homeless shelter could move to Parramore

[Closet_Urbanite]

Another Homeless Shelter? No way...I vote for Casino any day! I knew that West 500 block of South St was a Casino at one point...nice read from Orlando Sentinel back in 2005:

Exploring the path to Parramore's past

"A BUSTLING CENTER ON SOUTH STREET

None holds more retrospective glamour than the South Street Casino, later called the Quarterback Club, that sat at 519 W. South St.

Dr. William Monroe Wells owned the casino, which was hit by fire and demolished in the 1980s. It sat next to the hotel he built in the 1920s so that black visitors to Orlando would have a place to stay.

Now the Wells'Built Museum of African-American History and Culture, of which Thompson is director, it functions as a strong community anchor and force for preserving the area's heritage.

Recent programs at the Wells'Built included a showing of the Academy Award-winning Ray, about the life of Ray Charles, who played at the South Street Casino on the "Chitlin' Circuit" so well depicted in the movie.

Not only Charles but many other greats of American entertainment, including Count Basie and Duke Ellington, performed on South Street and stayed at Dr. Wells' hotel. The Wells home has been moved to the site of the casino from its original location a little farther east on South Street; eventually it will function as part of the Wells'Built complex for programs and activities.

By the way, we now think of the word casino only in connection with gambling, but the term, from Italian, originally meant a summer house or pavilion for pleasant gatherings."

[nite owℓ]

Mayor Dyer or someone from the City publicly stated the downtown area already has too many shelters clustered in such a small area so the idea was to disperse the services to other areas to lighten the burden. What happened? And I'm sure the residents of Winter Garden were all happy about feeding the homeless at Lake Eola etc until a shelter threatened to come to their town. I'd like to ask the Mayor why they don't move the shelter to College Park off OBT??

[jack]

Politics. Everyone supports the homeless until they move into their neighborhood. Dyer will have a heck of a time to try and move the shelters out of Parramore. The only decent option is off of OBT in an industrial area. But how will a lot of them get there?  

[mrh3]

Jack,

They'll probably walk.

 

[RedStar25]

So, I drove around Parramore  today to asses the "complaints" from individuals about preserving the "historic" nature of the "neighborhood." 

I left with the thought, what if a developer bought up the vacant land or derelict buildings and but a new neighborhood in a traditional 1920's Orlando Style? We could create a more cohesive/fluid neighborhood unique to Florida. One that incorporates: stadiums, older style homes, bars, retail, etc.. 

[prahaboheme]

Parramore Ave is actually a decent main street from a pedestrian perspective -- many of the historic buildings are in need of renovation but are aesthetically rich.  Scaled infill development could really turn it into a great street in the future.  I would hate to see those buildings bulldozed.

[RedStar25]

Yes, well thank that "hold out church" for forcing the city to cut Parramore in half and destroying the roads uniqueness. 

The church didn't, and don't care about the neighborhood. They wanted some $35 million to move to Metro West for their tiny sliver of land. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by RedStar25
Grammar

[HankStrong]

Amen, Brother Redstar.  Amen.

[metal93]

On 12/12/2015 at 0:34 PM, RedStar25 said:

So, I drove around Parramore  today to asses the "complaints" from individuals about preserving the "historic" nature of the "neighborhood." 

I left with the thought, what if a developer bought up the vacant land or derelict buildings and but a new neighborhood in a traditional 1920's Orlando Style? We could create a more cohesive/fluid neighborhood unique to Florida. One that incorporates: stadiums, older style homes, bars, retail, etc.. 

I was thinking of going at this in a post I made in the stadium thread that would have been more appropriate here. I'm all for developing compact craftsman bungalow neighborhoods and even aesthetically pleasing rowhouses/townhomes. Maybe throw in a few lowrise apartment buildings, and especially mixed use buidlings.

I would, however, oppose any developer trying to build low density, large lot McMansions, or attempt to destroy the street grid with cul de sacs and walling off areas like they do in your average subdivisions. I would also oppose big-box style anti-architecture surrounded by a moat of asphalt as is standard practice for businesses in the suburbs. That cannot happen. The end-goal for Parramore should have something like a more Lake Eola-Hieghts type density that supporst multiple incomes and does not push out all of the original residents, as well as a pedestrian friendly grid network with distinct residential and commericial areas with mixed uses thrown in between, kind of like a Thorton Park but in Parramore.

On 12/15/2015 at 7:05 AM, RedStar25 said:

Yes, well thank that "hold out church" for forcing the city to cut Parramore in half and destroying the roads uniqueness. 

The church didn't, and don't care about the neighborhood. They wanted some $35 million to move to Metro West for their tiny sliver of land. 

That church makes me mad sometimes. It's going to really look out of place when everything else is built around it. And honestly it is an unremarkable building that would not be missed, and they could have really built a new beautiful church in another area with the money the city was offering them. But they had to be stubborn, and soon are going to face the consequences of being right up against a stadium with loud fans all around them. I'm actually betting with some friends just how long the church is going to hold out once next year's season kicks in - they'll likely sell the parcel within a year after the stadium is completed. But yeah it's a real shame we're losing a continuous North-South street in Orlando, Parramore Avenue could have really been something.

[OrlandoMagicLions]

13 hours ago, metal93 said:

I was thinking of going at this in a post I made in the stadium thread that would have been more appropriate here. I'm all for developing compact craftsman bungalow neighborhoods and even aesthetically pleasing rowhouses/townhomes. Maybe throw in a few lowrise apartment buildings, and especially mixed use buidlings.

I would, however, oppose any developer trying to build low density, large lot McMansions, or attempt to destroy the street grid with cul de sacs and walling off areas like they do in your average subdivisions. I would also oppose big-box style anti-architecture surrounded by a moat of asphalt as is standard practice for businesses in the suburbs. That cannot happen. The end-goal for Parramore should have something like a more Lake Eola-Hieghts type density that supporst multiple incomes and does not push out all of the original residents, as well as a pedestrian friendly grid network with distinct residential and commericial areas with mixed uses thrown in between, kind of like a Thorton Park but in Parramore.

That church makes me mad sometimes. It's going to really look out of place when everything else is built around it. And honestly it is an unremarkable building that would not be missed, and they could have really built a new beautiful church in another area with the money the city was offering them. But they had to be stubborn, and soon are going to face the consequences of being right up against a stadium with loud fans all around them. I'm actually betting with some friends just how long the church is going to hold out once next year's season kicks in - they'll likely sell the parcel within a year after the stadium is completed. But yeah it's a real shame we're losing a continuous North-South street in Orlando, Parramore Avenue could have really been something.

they want 30 million though;)

[RedStar25]

On 12/16/2015 at 6:58 PM, metal93 said:

That church makes me mad sometimes. It's going to really look out of place when everything else is built around it. And honestly it is an unremarkable building that would not be missed, and they could have really built a new beautiful church in another area with the money the city was offering them. But they had to be stubborn, and soon are going to face the consequences of being right up against a stadium with loud fans all around them. I'm actually betting with some friends just how long the church is going to hold out once next year's season kicks in - they'll likely sell the parcel within a year after the stadium is completed. But yeah it's a real shame we're losing a continuous North-South street in Orlando, Parramore Avenue could have really been something.

The owners of this church are the same people who own Mama B's Subs... and forced the Marriott Downtown to build around them. 

[jack]

41 minutes ago, RedStar25 said:

The owners of this church are the same people who own Mama B's Subs... and forced the Marriott Downtown to build around them. 

?????

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I was in Miami the other day, in the Winwood neighborhood when I came across graffiti murals throughout the  whole neighborhood...blocks and blocks of murals...it was very hip.. Artists entertaining potential buyers..food trucks feeding the crowd..music, champagne, breweries and coffee bars...it was very urban and hip..I immediately thought of the Paramore district of how cool it would be to see something like this here in Orlando..Winwood is being revitalized because of this scene...The breweries and pubs are already opening up because of Orlando city stadium..why not take it a step further.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Urban mail carrier
Cant get my pics to download

[RedStar25]

20 minutes ago, Urban mail carrier said:

I was in Miami the other day, in the Winwood neighborhood when I came across graffiti murals throughout the  whole neighborhood...blocks and blocks of murals...it was very hip.. Artists entertaining potential buyers..food trucks feeding the crowd..music, champagne, breweries and coffee bars...it was very urban and hip..I immediately thought of the Paramore district of how cool it would be to see something like this here in Orlando..Winwood is being revitalized because of this scene...The breweries and pubs are already opening up because of Orlando city stadium..why not take it a step further.

 

 

It's called Mills 50. 

I read a very interesting article on the Bungaloer about the creation and history of Parramore. It's a mess because it was designed, intentionally or not, to be a mess. 

While I don't like the thought of erasing history, I think we are at a point where we can reboot the Parramore neighborhood. The intentional damage inflicted by previous generations is done and has saddled us with cleaning up the mess they created. Maybe we can create a dense urban neighborhood modeled after the French Quarter or just allow the business district to jump I-4 and expand high rises to the west. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Thanks Redstar25...ive been to Mills/50 and I haven't seen the blocks and blocks of murals. If there is one I must be blind or its a very small scene...not trying to be sarcastic...

[jgardnerucf]

Go see Dr. Pal at Orlando Eye Consultants at 1206 N. Mills Ave. lol

[Pete C]

Yeah, there are loads of murals around Mills 50. Like every other building has one now. This Winwood area in Miami must have them like on every side of every building.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Pete C

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Yeah Literally every building in Winwood has a mural....every block, and balcony...point I was trying to make is that Winwood is not that different from Paramore..The Urban Art scene has revitalized the neighborhood..Without trying to take anything away from Mills/50 area, it was never in urban decay or in a dilapidated state like Paramore or Winwood...I just thought that it is a good example that can be emulated...

[Pete C]

15 hours ago, Urban mail carrier said:

Yeah Literally every building in Winwood has a mural....every block, and balcony...point I was trying to make is that Winwood is not that different from Paramore..The Urban Art scene has revitalized the neighborhood..Without trying to take anything away from Mills/50 area, it was never in urban decay or in a dilapidated state like Paramore or Winwood...I just thought that it is a good example that can be emulated...

True, and you can never have too many areas with public art. Welcome to the forum btw!

[UngaBungalow]

I've been working with a number of local organizations to put up murals in town. The problem is that a lot of the building owners are not fond of the street art aesthetic. I think that's slowly changing though. The public art pilot program isn't helping anything either. It's slowing down the process to a snail's pace and over-complicating the issue. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Some ppl are difficult to convince...most businesses understand money...if they were shown perhaps videos and the foot traffic that these urban mural events create theyll understand that this can translate to money...no better incentive then money..these events 

1. Puts money in the pocket of businesses

2. Beautify the neighborhood 

3. Creates a sense of pride in the neighborhood 

4. Provides jobs for local artists and residents..

I was told by some Miami residents that the Winwood Urban Art has been so successful that it's actually stolen the scene from Coconut Grove.

[John Hargrove]

32 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Some ppl are difficult to convince...most businesses understand money...if they were shown perhaps videos and the foot traffic that these urban mural events create theyll understand that this can translate to money...no better incentive then money..these events 

1. Puts money in the pocket of businesses

2. Beautify the neighborhood 

3. Creates a sense of pride in the neighborhood 

4. Provides jobs for local artists and residents..

I was told by some Miami residents that the Winwood Urban Art has been so successful that it's actually stolen the scene from Coconut Grove.

The street art thing to me is interesting. I think there is something about the chaos of art everywhere that melts my brain. I hate it. Or it could be that I still associate it with illegal graffiti. The places that never get their graffiti painted over are always the poorest and worst maintained areas. Just a bad vibe for me in general.

Cognitively I understand that it's desirable art, but there's a visceral response I have toward it that I have a hard time overcoming. Feels trashy.